Windows 11 [2021]

Think about protecting the user from themselves. You can handwave this off at your own peril, it's still a problem. Having a hardware isolation for a root kernel, unrelated to the kernel servicing the user space (yes, I said and meant kernel, two copies) allows a computing base that is more secure than a simple user space isolation which breaks down when an uneducated user decies to permit bad behavior.
They're an option, not a mandate. I'm sorry you haven't figured this out. That's on you, not me.

The total number of uneducated users far exceeds the number of educated ones. Good on both of us for being educated, this is the future of commodity operating systems, Microsoft isn't going to be the only one.
Hell, security on networked devices isn't even about the individual, it's about the network; your security is also everyone else's security, because your machine being compromised is a vector for other people's machines being compromised. It's a vector for a more significant attack on infrastructure more broadly. The security for every device that has a network connection matters to every other networked device. Given that we're starting to see oil pipelines and hospitals and power grids come under attack, I'm not very sympathetic to arguments that boil down to individual freedom of risk; it's not just you that you put at risk, and the system as a whole cannot function if this stuff isn't taken seriously at scale.

Nobody should be assuming there is no controversy. But let's take your point at face value: there was no hardware breakpoint for Win8, the complaints were about user interface. And for Vista where there was a hardware breakpoint? People bitched a lot, and then everyone STFU about it and upgraded when Win7 came along.

Which, by the way, Win7 was simply a point release over WinVista and nothing more.
Also, Vista significantly changed the UI in a way that people were slow to adapt to, and additionally ran like garbage on min spec machines, completely changed all the driver models, breaking significant amounts of peripheral devices for months and in some cases years as developers were slow to update their drivers, and was seriously buggy at launch. Everyone wrote it off based on those initial very bad experiences. Windows 7 was crickets in large part because everything was fixed by then and it turns out that in absence of the sudden shock of all of that happening at once the general features Vista introduced were actually useful, at least with a little bit of polish to them. Windows 11 is not getting any bad reviews around usability, stability, or user interface. It's a much more organic growth out of Windows 10. The only point of conflict, thus far, is that some people who want the OS won't be able to get the OS.

Which, well, they're not going to downgrade if they get new hardware then are they?
 
I am all for the "hard-cut".
Let people stay on Win10...but restrict Win11 to proper (secure) hardware.
If they want a new "shiney"...they have to meet the minimum specs.
Yeah I've gotta agree, have a decent base spec so we dont get an inferior windows because they try to be too inclusive

It can't be as bad as apple, years ago they literally were selling a mac which did not have enough memory to run programs (I know cause I brought one) Just running the OS it was OK (forget which OS X, I just remember memory needs were a lot higher than windows at the time), but open up safari with a blank page and the memory was full and it started to page to disk (forget trying to open multiple tabs or you are in for some serious HDD grinding) Hilarious I can laugh in hindsight, but man I was pissed at the time, how can they sell something so broken. At least then you could upgrade your memory without paying the apple tax.
 
Having a hardware isolation for a root kernel, unrelated to the kernel servicing the user space (yes, I said and meant kernel, two copies) allows a computing base that is more secure than a simple user space isolation
How is that different from VBS/HVCI, i.e. trusted kernel processes as a 'host' and untrusted 3rd-party drivers and user space as a 'guest' VM?

They're an option, not a mandate.
Docker containers were designed to avoid VM overhead in the first place. Requiring hypervisor isolation is just a band-aid around process isolation incompatibility between different builds of Windows.

The total number of uneducated users far exceeds the number of educated ones
You don't need a Harvard degree in computer science to tell it's wrong when your game refuses to log-in because of bad DRM server connection, when an app store remotely removes your legitimate copy software over a developer dispute, or when a search engine hides the proper results based on your location.

People bitched a lot, and then everyone STFU about it and upgraded when Win7 came along.
You could add more memory/storage, and upgrade the CPU/GPU (on the desktop) - whereas this time you have to throw out anything released more than 3-4 years ago, and hand over potential control of your PC to Microsoft.


I'm sorry you haven't figured this out. That's on you, not me.
Good on both of us for being educated
You can handwave this off at your own peril, it's still a problem.
Sometimes you just have to let go of the dead-serious attitude, it's perfectly normal to accept there are things you don't fully grasp.
 
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security on networked devices isn't even about the individual, it's about the network; your security is also everyone else's security, because your machine being compromised is a vector for other people's machines being compromised.
Given that we're starting to see oil pipelines and hospitals and power grids come under attack, I'm not very sympathetic to arguments that boil down to individual freedom of risk
That sounds like an excuze for incompetent network securty staff. What my home PC has to do with hospitals and oir pipelines? It's not on their corporate network, and I'm not responsible for their OS vulnerabilities or backdoors in their 'antivirus' / remote managment software - which by definition aren't very functionally different from actual 'spyware'/'malware', so it's not a coincidence that it causes more problems than it solves.

Windows 7 was crickets in large part because everything was fixed by then
This was four years later, on PCs with significantly more memory and storage, with faster CPUs and video cards. It doesn't make Windows Vista hardware requirements any less outrageous for the time of its release.

The only point of conflict, thus far, is that some people who want the OS won't be able to get the OS
The point of conflict is the requirement for TPM 2.0, and specific processor generation on top of that.

Let them whine.
I recall 'Let Them Whine!' was the old folk tune the Three Presidentos (Ballmer, Elop, Sinofsky) were whistling as they rode the Nokia Titanic to the sunrise on the collision course with Windows 8 iceberg.
 
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windows 11 seems to be missing "power saver, balanced, performance, high performance" power modes in the classic control panel and in the modern settings.

manually setting the max cpu in the classic control panel also have no effect
 
Hell, security on networked devices isn't even about the individual, it's about the network; your security is also everyone else's security, because your machine being compromised is a vector for other people's machines being compromised.
<snip>

Also, Vista significantly changed the UI in a way that people were slow to adapt to, and additionally ran like garbage on min spec machines, completely changed all the driver models, breaking significant amounts of peripheral devices for months and in some cases years as developers were slow to update their drivers, and was seriously buggy at launch. Everyone wrote it off based on those initial very bad experiences. Windows 7 was crickets in large part because everything was fixed by then ... <snip>

Which, well, they're not going to downgrade if they get new hardware then are they?
Yup, agree with everything you stated here.

How is that different from VBS/HVCI, i.e. trusted kernel processes as a 'host' and untrusted 3rd-party drivers and user space as a 'guest' VM?
Hardware isolation instead of software, for starters.

Docker containers were designed to avoid VM overhead in the first place. Requiring hypervisor isolation is just a band-aid around process isolation incompatibility between different builds of Windows.
What part of "it's optional, not mandatory" didn't translate into your native language? If you're changing underlying base kernel versions of the operating system, then Linux is in the same boat here too re: needing a "thick VM" instead of a container.

You don't need a Harvard degree in computer science to tell it's wrong when your game refuses to log-in because of bad DRM server connection, when an app store remotely removes your legitimate copy software over a developer dispute, or when a search engine hides the proper results based on your location.
Literally none of this garbage has anything to do with Microsoft, or Windows, or the newest version number 11. Turns out, loading Steam on a Linux box results in the same behavior.

Shut up about DRM already, it isn't the topic and your obsessing over it is pointless.

Sometimes you just have to let go of the dead-serious attitude, it's perfectly normal to accept there are things you don't fully grasp.
Yes, we completely agree, you should absolutely heed your own advice on this matter. Great examples include applying your own incorrect assumptions about DRM to a Windows release, about how process isolation works in Windows, about how the STORPORT driver for NVMe on Windows works, and why a hardware enabled hypervisor makes sense in specific areas even on Linux host systems.
 
Btw the talk about drm requiring login. Dunno how it is on other stores but windows store games originally allows to be played without login in the store or in the game.

Everything changed a few days after the spiffing brit published a video that got really popular on YouTube that basically telling people that they can share games to unlimited people. Including gamepass games, and it doesn't matter if the gamepass is expired. The games still works.

Before that video, the drm behavior was awesomely user friendly. Allowing easy play with multiple different profiles and sharing with friends all while offline (only need internet for thr first login). It also allows a pretty lucrative gray market of people "renting" Microsoft accounts. Been like that for years. No ban. No drm policy change.
 
Hahaha, I had no idea the DRM was so loose on the Windows Apps side of things. Makes sense, it's just files loaded in your user profile. That's actually pretty surprising to know it was that loosely contained.

DRM is antagonizing for sure; it isn't the "fault" of the underlying operating system.
 
For years Apple pushed in adverts that they had no viruses or malware while Microsoft did. For years people pushed linux on me because it was more secure. Now MS is making windows more secure and there are so many people bitching about it.

I remember everyone bitching about kinect and having a camera and an always listening device in your house. Now alex enabled devices , siri enabled devices and facebook portal devices are in hundreds of millions of homes across the USA.

Microsoft is always ahead of the game and its "users" are always dragging them backwards only for them to praise the next thing from apple or amazon or google that is just what MS did a few years prior that hte users were complaining about.

MS needs to start making smart moves and sticking to them . This is why I wish MS just charged for this windows and gave it a new name like Windows X or something and say hey this is a security centric OS that we are fully behind. Windows 10 will exist for another 4 years and be supported but we believe in this and this is what is required to use it. That is it
 
Agree with eastmen; I'm very happy Microsoft is spending this much time and effort on security. I still think there are more things they can be doing, and part of their challenge is breaking with their enormous past in the name of a seemingly endless reach for backwards compatibility.

However, at this point, there are so many modern ways to carve off literal, physical hardware to run all that backwards compatible stuff in a secure yet still performant way while the modern world moves on. I hope to see even more of this from Microsoft in the coming months and years.
 
Agree with eastmen; I'm very happy Microsoft is spending this much time and effort on security. I still think there are more things they can be doing, and part of their challenge is breaking with their enormous past in the name of a seemingly endless reach for backwards compatibility.

However, at this point, there are so many modern ways to carve off literal, physical hardware to run all that backwards compatible stuff in a secure yet still performant way while the modern world moves on. I hope to see even more of this from Microsoft in the coming months and years.

Security is a big business for MS , they are the biggest company involved and has grown over a 100% in the last 3 years. Windows 11 will accelerate that growth.
 
https://blogs.windows.com/windows-i...ng-windows-11-insider-preview-build-22000-65/

New build is out lots of changes ! to big for a post but i put the known issues in quotes as I think thats more important than what is fixed

Changes and Improvements
Known issues

  • [REMINDER] When upgrading to Windows 11 from Windows 10 or when installing an update to Windows 11, some features may be deprecated or removed. See details here.
  • Start:
    • In some cases, you might be unable to enter text when using Search from Start or the Taskbar. If you experience the issue, press WIN + R on the keyboard to launch the Run dialog box, then close it.
  • Taskbar:
    • The Taskbar will sometimes flicker when switching input methods.
    • Dragging an app icon to rearrange it in the Taskbar will result in the app launching or minimizing.
  • Settings:
    • When launching the Settings app, a brief green flash may appear.
    • When using Quick Settings to modify Accessibility settings, the settings UI may not save the selected state.
  • File Explorer:
    • The new command bar may not appear when “Open folders in a separate process” is enabled under File Explorer Options > View.
    • Explorer.exe crashes in a loop for Insiders using the Turkish display language when battery charge is at 100%.
    • When right clicking the desktop or File Explorer, the resulting context menu and submenus may appear partially off screen.
  • Search:
    • After clicking the Search icon on the Taskbar, the Search panel may not open. If this occurs, restart the “Windows Explorer” process, and open the search panel again.
    • When you hover your mouse over the Search icon on the Taskbar, recent searches may not be displayed. To work around the issue, restart your PC.
    • Search panel might appear as black and not display any content below the search box.
  • Widgets:
    • Widgets board may appear empty. To work around the issue, you can sign out and then sign back in again.
    • Launching links from the widgets board may not invoke apps to the foreground.
    • When using the Outlook client with a Microsoft account, Calendar, and To Do changes may not sync to the widgets in real time.
    • Widgets may be displayed in the wrong size on external monitors. If you encounter this, you can launch the widgets via touch or WIN + W shortcut on your actual PC display first and then launch on your secondary monitors.
    • After adding multiple widgets quickly from the widgets settings, some of the widgets may not be visible on the board.
  • Store:
    • The install button might not be functional yet in some limited scenarios.
    • Rating and reviews are not available for some apps.
  • Windows Security
    • Device Security is unexpectedly saying “Standard hardware security not supported” for Insiders with supported hardware.
    • “Automatic sample submission” is unexpectedly turned off when you restart your PC.
 
Maybe I miss the info, but will DirectStorage be available at launch ?
guess so, as part of DirectX 12 Ultimate as promised. Also it is going to draw a line between Windows 11 and previous versions of Windows so more reason to have it at launch. DX12 Ultimate should be more than ready, as it's already present on consoles so to speak.

New emojis for Windows 11.

 
System requirements for Microsoft Windows 11 remain unchanged (guru3d.com)
July 27, 2021
The AMD Ryzen 2000 series and Intel's 8000 series CPUs are supported (or newer). TMP 2.0 is also required. The high security requirements, according to Microsoft CEO David Weston, should result in a much more secure system.

“We know it sucks that some aren't going to be eligible for Windows 11, but the great thing to remember is the reason we're doing [this] is to keep devices more productive and [ensure that they have] security than ever before so they can stay protected in this new workforce,”

“Group policy will not enable you to get around the hardware enforcement for Windows 11. We will block you from upgrading your device to an unsupported state since we really want to make sure that your devices stay supported and secure,”

Can businesses afford to upgrade to Win 11 with necessary corporate hardware upgrades? Many just migrated to Win 10 with no upgrades ...
 
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"Microsoft CEO David Weston" the what now? Last time I checked Satya Nadella was the CEO
 
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