Playstation 5 [PS5] [Release November 12 2020]

[BRiT]

Further, its most likely not going to be a long-lived title. However, you cant complain, its free (if you have plus) and its another title making (great) use of the DS5 new features.
Its good they didnt charge 70 dollars for this.

The kids love it to hell and back though

We'll see what they do in April when its off PS+ and no longer "free".

 

[PSman1700]

We'll see what they do in April when its off PS+ and no longer "free".

Then it will mean a even quicker end to this game. I think that destruction allstars would have had a better fit as a launch title, available to everyone, like astrobot.
Because i do not think this will make people jump to Plus.

 

[see colon]

Oh, I thought you were talking about something truly new...I don't mind there's lot's of Mario Karts, it's nice to see the game evolving...what I do mind is the lack of new IP - they seem to have a knack of getting away with reinventing the wheel rather than bringing something new and fresh to the table.

Each to their own, but I prefer the thought of something new and different - it's why I like PlayStation, you get your staple main players along with a nice sprinkle of fresh and new ones.

OK, I'll bite on this too I guess. Switch has a bunch of new IPs from Nintendo. Sniperclips, 1 2 Switch, Arms, Labo, Sushi Striker, Astral Chain, Ringfit to name a few. WiiU had some also. Captain Toad, Wonderful 101, Splatoon, Mario Maker. God, I'm starting to sound like some Nintendo fanboy when really I really I'm a Sega guy.

As to not derail this conversation to much, I'll just add that there are 10 released Gran Turismo games, with an 11th already announced. That's the same as the number of released Mario Karts at 10. But Sony did it in 5 less years, and I'd argue there is less innovation and more reinventing of wheels going on from the Gran Turismo side of the pond than the Mario Kart side. Also, as much as I love Sony's first party games on PS4, most of them have been 3rd person open world-ish narrative action games. I'm into that, so it's great for people like me who are looking for it, but to act as if Nintendo is just churning out sequels at a rate that exceeds Sony's isn't backed up by the numbers. Nor is the assertion that Nintendo isn't offering new IP or fresh ideas.

 

[Nesh]

OK, I'll bite on this too I guess. Switch has a bunch of new IPs from Nintendo. Sniperclips, 1 2 Switch, Arms, Labo, Sushi Striker, Astral Chain, Ringfit to name a few. WiiU had some also. Captain Toad, Wonderful 101, Splatoon, Mario Maker. God, I'm starting to sound like some Nintendo fanboy when really I really I'm a Sega guy.

As to not derail this conversation to much, I'll just add that there are 10 released Gran Turismo games, with an 11th already announced. That's the same as the number of released Mario Karts at 10. But Sony did it in 5 less years, and I'd argue there is less innovation and more reinventing of wheels going on from the Gran Turismo side of the pond than the Mario Kart side. Also, as much as I love Sony's first party games on PS4, most of them have been 3rd person open world-ish narrative action games. I'm into that, so it's great for people like me who are looking for it, but to act as if Nintendo is just churning out sequels at a rate that exceeds Sony's isn't backed up by the numbers. Nor is the assertion that Nintendo isn't offering new IP or fresh ideas.

I disagree and agree at the same time.
Sony does experiment with new and innovative IPs. Take Tearaway (totally missed gem), Dreams, Ape Escape, Wonderbook, Dark Cloud, Gravity Rush etc
There are more that I cant remember.
Except for Gran Turismo, which is like the Fifa of car games and dont leave as much freedom for creativity as a fantasy game (see Mario Kart, a far simpler and imaginative project where the sky is the limit), Sony owned IPs in general dont last for eons or just paste an existing IP's cover on top of different genres and types of games.
Although I have to say what it is amazing about Nintendo, is that they are masters in gameplay. All these years they rarely made boring games and the existing IPs manage to feel fresh and fun to this day.
I d say though Sony tries to touch all worlds of gamers. Both the hardcore and the casual and the in between. Whereas Nintendo found a certain style of games and mastered them. They are very artistic, less resource intensive (in relative or absolute terms depending on the game), simple and fun. When you hear Nintendo games you recognize an identity of games that can fall in a common and welcoming universe. When you hear Sony games, well.....it is a mix. Cute games like Tearaway, cartoon RPGs like Dark Cloud, Simulations like GT, to hardcore violent games like The Last of Us.

Nintendo fans can be fans of all Nintendo games, but you cant have Sony fans that can love and recognise all Sony games

 

[goonergaz]

I disagree and agree at the same time.
Sony does experiment with new and innovative IPs. Take Tearaway (totally missed gem), Dreams, Ape Escape, Wonderbook, Dark Cloud, Gravity Rush etc
There are more that I cant remember.
Except for Gran Turismo, which is like the Fifa of car games and dont leave as much freedom for creativity as a fantasy game (see Mario Kart, a far simpler and imaginative project where the sky is the limit), Sony owned IPs in general dont last for eons or just paste an existing IP's cover on top of different genres and types of games.
Although I have to say what it is amazing about Nintendo, is that they are masters in gameplay. All these years they rarely made boring games and the existing IPs manage to feel fresh and fun to this day.
I d say though Sony tries to touch all worlds of gamers. Both the hardcore and the casual and the in between. Whereas Nintendo found a certain style of games and mastered them. They are very artistic, less resource intensive (in relative or absolute terms depending on the game), simple and fun. When you hear Nintendo games you recognize an identity of games that can fall in a common and welcoming universe. When you hear Sony games, well.....it is a mix. Cute games like Tearaway, cartoon RPGs like Dark Cloud, Simulations like GT, to hardcore violent games like The Last of Us.

Nintendo fans can be fans of all Nintendo games, but you cant have Sony fans that can love and recognise all Sony games

Couldn't have put it better myself. Calling out GT was not a great idea - it's a realistic sim vs a 'cartoon' kart racer lol. But yeah, Ninty are masters at gameplay and lovable characters - no-one can deny that, but Sony are masters at touching a wider gaming audience IMHO. You've not even touched on VR, a proper full on VR experience brought to the masses at a reasonable price. Earlier we had Singstar, Buzz and Eyetoy bringing the family together.

One complaint I have against Nintendo is that often when they have a new IP they shoe-horn a Nintendo character into it, Luigis mansion is a good example - and I love that game, probably my most favourite Nintendo game outside Mario 64. But really, why did that have to be Luigi? Why not invent a new character...it's not like they don't have a great track record for creating imaginative and likable characters.

Back OT I've finally put the external SSD in place to relieve the pressure on the internal SSD - all seems stable, thanks to @London Geezer I think it was who mentioned the ugreen caddy.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

OK, I'll bite on this too I guess. Switch has a bunch of new IPs from Nintendo.

I disagree and agree at the same time.

I think you're both missing my point, sorry if I was less than clear. It's not about the number of games in a franchise, or ditching an established IP to develop a new IP, it's that Nintendo have made a business out of remastering the 1992 SNES game Super Mario Kart game every few years. Hence my comment that I am not a fan of Naughty Dog spending time to remaster The Last of Us Part II, a game they released less than a year ago.

 

[goonergaz]

Due to BC the reason to remaster is completely gone, last gen it was essential the gen before it happened because the PS3 dropped BC soon after launch. There is a demand for BC but it's small, the question was do you get everyone to pay for BC or the people who want to replay (or experience) old games on new systems.

I like remasters, and enjoyed SotC on PS2, PS3 remaster and PS4 remaster - hell I'd buy a PS5 remaster with RT etc...BUT I'd actual prefer new experiences - any company only has a finite resource so best spend it wisely.

 

[snc]

Due to BC the reason to remaster is completely gone, last gen it was essential the gen before it happened because the PS3 dropped BC soon after launch. There is a demand for BC but it's small, the question was do you get everyone to pay for BC or the people who want to replay (or experience) old games on new systems.

I like remasters, and enjoyed SotC on PS2, PS3 remaster and PS4 remaster - hell I'd buy a PS5 remaster with RT etc...BUT I'd actual prefer new experiences - any company only has a finite resource so best spend it wisely.

ps4 sotc is remake made on new engine, I had to ;d

 

[Tkumpathenurpahl]

I think you're both missing my point, sorry if I was less than clear. It's not about the number of games in a franchise, or ditching an established IP to develop a new IP, it's that Nintendo have made a business out of remastering the 1992 SNES game Super Mario Kart game every few years. Hence my comment that I am not a fan of Naughty Dog spending time to remaster The Last of Us Part II, a game they released less than a year ago.

It may be a slightly flawed comparison though. Every Nintendo console needs a Mario Kart. Not every PlayStation needs The Last of Us Part 2. But every PlayStation needs a Gran Turismo.

So I think it's pretty easy to accidentally wade into the murky waters of platform comparisons when the starting point isn't 100% accurate.

That said, I do agree that Naughty Dog working on new games is preferable to them pissing away time on remasters. Although I would like them to patch TLOU2 with 2160p30 & 1440p60 modes for the PS5. Nothing more than that. Nothing that might make them feel audacious enough to pull a Spider-Man "here's the same game with assets pulled in from the £70 DLC. £40 please!" Kiss my dick Sony.

Perhaps the move for Sony would be to find another studio like Bluepoint and set them to work on building remastered collections of past generations' games, but do so with a view to forwards compatibility. Like we've seen with dynamic resolution/unlocked framerate PS4 games on the PS5.

I'm sure it's appealing to try and keep reselling the same content with minimal investment (i.e. just getting an old game running on new hardware, maybe at a higher resolution,) but Microsoft's backwards and forwards compatibility efforts aren't going to get worse in the coming years.

 

[London Geezer]

Little warning to anyone who wants to try the Nioh 2 remaster on PS5.

It’s not an update for the PS4 version. It’s the full download again.

AND!

You can only transfer your PS4 save file from the PS4 version of the game.

So if, like me, you don’t have Nioh 2 (PS4 version) installed already, you will need to install that first (at least you don’t have to wait until the full install is over, but it’s still 18GB to start the game). Then send your PS4 save file to “the cloud” - I suppose it’s not the same psn cloud where my save file already was, but a Nioh cloud? - and then you can download this save file on the PS5 version of the game.

Just as convoluted as we have come to expect, really.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

It may be a slightly flawed comparison though. Every Nintendo console needs a Mario Kart.

Why? Why not one of the other third party kart games, like Sonic or Crash?

Not every PlayStation needs The Last of Us Part 2. But every PlayStation needs a Gran Turismo.

Gran Turismo has evolved in scope since the original game. Mario Kart is basically the exact same game. Mario Kart 8 on Switch is unashamedly the same as the Wii U game and it's got a pull RRP price.

 

[Tkumpathenurpahl]

Why? Why not one of the other third party kart games, like Sonic or Crash?

I think it's just such a strong association at this point. When my friends bought a Switch, Mario Kart and Smash Bros were two of the first games they bought. My other friends and I were all waiting for them to buy those games too, as they'd bought a Switch+Zelda bundle.

Gran Turismo has evolved in scope since the original game. Mario Kart is basically the exact same game. Mario Kart 8 on Switch is unashamedly the same as the Wii U game and it's got a pull RRP price.

Gran Turismo has evolved in scope, I agree. It's simulated more aspects, while consistently balancing that very well with accessibility. It's still basically the same game and it's still great.

I also agree that Mario Kart is also basically the same game. I've only played the occasional entry, but certainly the SNES version doesn't hold up anymore. I doubt the N64 version does either. Maybe the GameCube version does, but Nintendo had to port a version of it to the Switch, so why not use the WiiU version?

By and large, it's money for old rope, but the skill behind Mario Kart's level design is impressive, and it's consistently a top tier party game because nearly everyone's always in with a fighting chance. Those levels still need designing, play-testing, and iterating.

 

[snc]

Gran Turismo has evolved in scope since the original game. Mario Kart is basically the exact same game. Mario Kart 8 on Switch is unashamedly the same as the Wii U game and it's got a pull RRP price.

not very good comparison, as a simcade/casual sim gt has almost infinity room for physics advancement and graphics department targeting realism, maro kart with toony graphics and 100% arcade handling not so much

 

[Deleted member 11852]

not very good comparison, as a simcade/casual sim gt has almost infinity room for physics advancement and graphics department targeting realism, maro kart with toony graphics and 100% arcade handling not so much

This is 100% my point.

By and large, it's money for old rope, but the skill behind Mario Kart's level design is impressive, and it's consistently a top tier party game because nearly everyone's always in with a fighting chance. Those levels still need designing, play-testing, and iterating.

The fact that anybody can win Mario Kart has nothing to do with level design but rather the basic game design that adjusts to any playing being too good or too bad. There are so many rubber-banding mechanics in Mario Kart you probably fling a car over a 100ft wall. I.e. the goods cheats constantly.

 

[see colon]

It may be a slightly flawed comparison though. Every Nintendo console needs a Mario Kart. Not every PlayStation needs The Last of Us Part 2. But every PlayStation needs a Gran Turismo.

Every Nintendo console gets a Mario Kart because it's a core franchise for them. Same with GT on Playstation. But almost every Sony home system has had 2 GT games, right? 1&2 were on PS1, 3&4 were on PS2, Prolog&5&6 on PS3. Only PS4 had a single release with GT Sport. And PSP had only 1 if we are including handhelds. So every Nintendo console needs a Mario Kart, but almost every Playstation needs 2 Gran Turismos. Nintendo may make sequels to all of their games, but it's less common for them to push them out at the rate Sony does. It's also uncommon for Sony to not make a sequel to a first party game. Unless it has dragons in it. Legend of Dragoon and Lair, I see you.

But history has shown that Nintendo actually has a fairly slow pace for direct, inline sequels (except Mario Party). You get 1 or 2 per platform, and sometimes none. We aren't getting a new Star Fox every generation. Or Kid Icarus. Or even Metroid or F-Zero. Conversely look at the pace of releases for some of Sony's IPs. Compare how many Wipe0ut games there are to the amount of F-Zero. Has there been a Sony console without a Wipe0ut game? Nope. 5 Motorstorm games between 2006 and 2012. Would that be a more accurate comparison to Mario Kart? Nintendo released 2 Mario Kart games in that same time frame, and one was on handheld. Or should we compare that to Excitetrucks/bots. There were only 2 of those in that timeframe as well. Or maybe a more pure Kart racing experience to compare to Mario Kart. Sony Released 3 kart racers between 2010 and 2012. Modnation, Littlebigplanet Karting, and Modnation Road Trip. Nintendo released Mario Kart 11 in that timeframe. There has only been one time that 2 Mario Kart games came out less than 3 years apart and it was the releases of Double Dash and Mario Kart DS being just over 2 years apart. 5 Resistance games between 2006 and 2012. We got 2 Metroid Prime games (Nintendo's sci-fi shooter), or 4 Metroid games if you include Other M (not really a shooter) and Trilogy in the same timeframe. 6 Syphon Filter games between 1999 and 2007? What's Nintendo's stealth action game? Luigi's Mansion I guess. There's only 3 of those.

 

[goonergaz]

Every Nintendo console gets a Mario Kart because it's a core franchise for them. Same with GT on Playstation. But almost every Sony home system has had 2 GT games, right? 1&2 were on PS1, 3&4 were on PS2, Prolog&5&6 on PS3. Only PS4 had a single release with GT Sport. And PSP had only 1 if we are including handhelds. So every Nintendo console needs a Mario Kart, but almost every Playstation needs 2 Gran Turismos. Nintendo may make sequels to all of their games, but it's less common for them to push them out at the rate Sony does. It's also uncommon for Sony to not make a sequel to a first party game. Unless it has dragons in it. Legend of Dragoon and Lair, I see you.

But history has shown that Nintendo actually has a fairly slow pace for direct, inline sequels (except Mario Party). You get 1 or 2 per platform, and sometimes none. We aren't getting a new Star Fox every generation. Or Kid Icarus. Or even Metroid or F-Zero. Conversely look at the pace of releases for some of Sony's IPs. Compare how many Wipe0ut games there are to the amount of F-Zero. Has there been a Sony console without a Wipe0ut game? Nope. 5 Motorstorm games between 2006 and 2012. Would that be a more accurate comparison to Mario Kart? Nintendo released 2 Mario Kart games in that same time frame, and one was on handheld. Or should we compare that to Excitetrucks/bots. There were only 2 of those in that timeframe as well. Or maybe a more pure Kart racing experience to compare to Mario Kart. Sony Released 3 kart racers between 2010 and 2012. Modnation, Littlebigplanet Karting, and Modnation Road Trip. Nintendo released Mario Kart 11 in that timeframe. There has only been one time that 2 Mario Kart games came out less than 3 years apart and it was the releases of Double Dash and Mario Kart DS being just over 2 years apart. 5 Resistance games between 2006 and 2012. We got 2 Metroid Prime games (Nintendo's sci-fi shooter), or 4 Metroid games if you include Other M (not really a shooter) and Trilogy in the same timeframe. 6 Syphon Filter games between 1999 and 2007? What's Nintendo's stealth action game? Luigi's Mansion I guess. There's only 3 of those.

lol, talk about OT

You cannot deny PlayStation has many new IPs - in fact Motorstorm was one of them, it came - we played and now we have a new IP...not another Motorstorm.

Not only that, counting re-releases with added DLC and a game which plays completely differently is really not cricket old boy. :d

 

[see colon]

lol, talk about OT

You cannot deny PlayStation has many new IPs - in fact Motorstorm was one of them, it came - we played and now we have a new IP...not another Motorstorm.

Not only that, counting re-releases with added DLC and a game which plays completely differently is really not cricket old boy. :d

I never said that Sony doesn't release new IPs. They do, and they also make sequels to series as well. Unless they have dragons in them. Again, this is just like Nintendo. Sony just releases titles in a series at a faster rate than Nintendo, but Nintendo has this reputation of only making the same few game series. Want a pure apples to apples comparison? Probably the most similar game Nintendo and Sony make are their cartoony golf games. Mario Golf for Nintendo and Hot Shots / Everybody's Golf for Sony. Mario Golf was released in 1999 and the first Hot Shots in 1997. The games were both developed by Camelot. There would be 5 releases in the series for Mario Golf. One each on N64, Gameboy Color, Gameboy Advance, Gamecube and 3DS. Some people consider the NES game NES Open to be the first game in the series, because it's a golf game that stars Mario. So We can count that also and we'd be at 6. If you count the NES game simply titled "Golf", which sort of maybe has Mario in it, we'd be at 7 and the series would have started in 1984. If you really want to stretch it we can include Kirby's Dream Course and we'd be at 8. There are 8 Evereybody's Golf games plus a VR, so 9 games total. Even with some creative inclusions on the Nintendo side, Sony still released more games, and in much less time. Sony's pace is impressive.

Also, Hot Shots golf is one of my favorite games. I'm not trying to disparage Sony for giving me more of what I want. The fact that they are releasing games in series that I enjoy is a positive thing to me. I'm simply pointing out that they produce sequels just like Nintendo does, and usually faster.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I never said that Sony doesn't release new IPs. They do, and they also make sequels to series as well. Unless they have dragons in them. Again, this is just like Nintendo. Sony just releases titles in a series at a faster rate than Nintendo, but Nintendo has this reputation of only making the same few game series.

I can't help feel you're still blindly focussed on numbers of entires in a franchise. I am not.

The reason I used Mario Kart as an example is because it's evolved very little in 30+ years. Unlike Super Mario as a platformer, which has. Plenty of franchises rack up number entires - the number of outings in the Halo overshadows Mario Kart but the FPS games evolved with new mechanics and the franchise included RTS entires as well. Gears of War has had five third-person cover-shooter outings and one turn-based strategy outing. Most franchises are constantly iterating and evolving.

Mario Kart has not. The fact Nintendo don't do this with every franchise does not detract that Mario Kart is a cheap remaster money-grab. And this is not what I want Naughty Dog to become.

 

[Rootax]

It's pretty hard to re-invent the wheel with a racing game... Better graphics and new circuits is most of the time the next version... (well, problem is right now Nintendo can't do better graphics since Wii u...)

 

[Karamazov]

VR re-invented racing games for me, was transformative.