Current Generation Games Analysis Technical Discussion [2020-2021] [XBSX|S, PS5, PC]

[Globalisateur]

Not sure why anyone is comparing performance on such a raw game, but whatever, here it is... Images from video were copied from this post on XboxEra [ https://forum.xboxera.com/t/cyberpu...for-this-game-to-release-no-spoilers/5204/279 ]

Pinned Video Comment:

The game runs in backward compatibility mode on PS5 / XSX. The NextGen patch will arrive in 2021.

The PC version runs at 4K / Ultra 30FPS with DLSS.

There are some interesting differences between versions, starting with the absence of modes on PS5. Series X has a 1800p / 30fps mode and another with a medium resolution of 1224p / 60fps, while the PS5 has to settle for only the second option. Some textures and shadows are considerably lower on the PS5 version in addition to having a lower draw distance and npcs density.

The most noticeable differences in PC are mainly the textures, the lighting (with RT) and the density of NPCs. However, I am not very happy with the DLSS in this game, as it sometimes blurs the image too much.

Currently, on consoles, the best version to play is Series X without a doubt.
We will have to wait for the 2021 patch to see if there are changes to this result.
​

Using the same scenes in the 60fps mode: Best framerate on PS5. The guy compares details of 30fps mode on XSX vs PS5 and the usual res on XSX at 30fps is around 1600p, not 1800p.

 

[iroboto]

Using the same scenes in the 60fps mode: Best framerate on PS5. The guy compares details of 30fps mode on XSX vs PS5 and the usual res on XSX at 30fps is around 1600p, not 1800p.

PS5 takes advantage of it's oodle kraken hardware decompression here. No other platform has this unfortunately. So the frame rate is likely tied to everyone else having to do that decompress via CPU.

 

[Globalisateur]

PS5 takes advantage of it's oodle kraken hardware decompression here. No other platform has this unfortunately. So the frame rate is likely tied to everyone else having to do that decompress via CPU.

XSX supposedly needs 10% of one CPU core to decompress data. It shouldn't make such a difference.

 

[iroboto]

XSX supposedly needs 10% of one CPU core to decompress data. It shouldn't make such a difference.

what? no much more than 10%.

when your textures decompression is tied in with your frame rate? it's not a static figure for all framerates.

"Plus it has other benefits," enthuses Andrew Goossen. "It's less latent and it saves a ton of CPU. With the best competitive solution, we found doing decompression software to match the SSD rate would have consumed three Zen 2 CPU cores. When you add in the IO CPU overhead, that's another two cores. So the resulting workload would have completely consumed five Zen 2 CPU cores when now it only takes a tenth of a CPU core.

You should recognize that X1X does not have a hardware decoder. And CP2077 on XSX is running the X1X variant. If X1X using Oddle Kraken like everyone else does, the XSX cannot use it's hardware decoder.

 

[Globalisateur]

what? no much more than 10%.

when your textures decompression is tied in with your frame rate? it's not a static figure for all framerates.



You should recognize that X1X does not have a hardware decoder. And CP2077 on XSX is running the X1X variant. If X1X using Oddle Kraken like everyone else does, the XSX cannot use it's hardware decoder.

I doubt any version is using oodle (or BCPack) textures anyway. I think they are both using Zlib compression like XB1 and PS4.

 

[function]

XSX supposedly needs 10% of one CPU core to decompress data. It shouldn't make such a difference.

The "up to 10%" of 1 core was for handling IO.

Decompression done on the CPU will take as much CPU as the workload you throw at it needs. As this is a last gen game it probably won't even be using the decompression hardware (or Direct Storage or SFS for that matter).

 

[Shortbread]

Comparing backwards compatible games is beyond pointless. I feel for all of the people playing cyberpunk on consoles without a nextgen patch, but its not technically interesting at all.

BC testing is good for many reasons prior to next-generation patches being made available. Since PS5/XBSX are essentially receiving their predecessor's code having the game run at the original settings can possibly determine how much potential room (performance) the newer systems can provide once updated. In the case of CP 2077, there should be lots of room for improved performance/IQ seeing the current state of BC on both platforms.

 

[PSman1700]

this is a last gen game

CP2077 is not a last gen game.

 

[function]

CP2077 is not a last gen game.

It's an XDK game, so afaik it won't have access to DirectStorage, SFS, and it's probably doing all it's decompression on the CPU.

 

[PSman1700]

It's an XDK game, so afaik it won't have access to DirectStorage, SFS, and it's probably doing all it's decompression on the CPU.

Yes i ment in the hardware department. Its a game developed for high end pc hardware, not 2013 base consoles and then upscaled, its the otherway around. Ofcourse improvements can and will be made in future patches and games. DS and SFS could help alot indeed.

 

[thicc_gaf]

CP2077 is not a last gen game.

In a way it is since it was developed with PS4 and XBO in mind. Those were the "base" versions of the game; the next-gen patches coming to PS5 and Series X|S are just building on top of that.

Also even on PC, it's not really natively built with next-gen RDNA2 or RTX 30-series hardware features. The engine should be flexible enough to work those features into updates, but the core game design would still have its roots in PS4 and XBO hence it being a "last gen" game.

Not really meant as a negative tbh; arguably most of the best games this year have their game design and main technical featuresets rooted in 8th-gen hardware (or even 7th-gen hardware in the case of Demon's Souls Remake).

Yes i ment in the hardware department. Its a game developed for high end pc hardware, not 2013 base consoles and then upscaled, its the otherway around. Ofcourse improvements can and will be made in future patches and games. DS and SFS could help alot indeed.

Has CDP mentioned this? IIRC Cyberpunk dev started a good while ago, back around 2012 I think.

At some point it'd of had gone into deep development before the first devkits for PS5 and Series X were even built, and it may've been developed for high-end PC cards at that point but those'd be "high end" by 2015-2016 standards, which the new consoles and new GPU cards handily outperform.

Since so much of the game design is similar between all the systems, I figure if it were developed for high-end PCs and then scaled down then certain parts of the graphics, physics systems, game design complexity etc. would be noticeably scaled down or absent on the PS4 and XBO versions. But that doesn't seem to be the case.

Doesn't matter too much anyway; very clear the Red engine's got a lot of juice to it, they can scale it up very well for higher-performing hardware. We should be in for a real treat with the next-gen patches early next year.

 

[PSman1700]

From that angle, all games will basically be last gen untill almost next gen arrives again

 

[iroboto]

I doubt any version is using oodle (or BCPack) textures anyway. I think they are both using Zlib compression like XB1 and PS4.

Bottom left corner for splash screen for CP2077

All game sizes are 50-58GB for all platforms PC included after installation.
Oodle Kraken explains the very high CPU usage on PC, and explains why Jaguar processors are getting beaten down so badly in terms of decompressing textures on time. Also explains why the mid-gen refresh consoles get hurt so badly once they start driving their cars.

They are all definitely using oodle kraken for at least PC and Playstation. I do believe also for Xbox. They will use BCPack for Series editions when that patch arrives, but for X1X edition I'm not confident BC Pack is going to outperform Oodle Kraken in pure CPU decompress.

 

[Allandor]

Using the same scenes in the 60fps mode: Best framerate on PS5. The guy compares details of 30fps mode on XSX vs PS5 and the usual res on XSX at 30fps is around 1600p, not 1800p.

The performance mode on series x has also better assets (textures, shadows, ...). But that should only be the case because the one x has more memory for the game than the ps4 pro. Because it is just a BC game right now, the game looks generally better on series x (now).
But the series x seems to have more problems with the performance. But, well, the engine is just not optimized. The Performance on the base-machines is in the lower 20fps territory so I really don't expect stable 60. A quality mode for PS5 (before the next-gen patch) would be optimal.

Bottom left corner for splash screen for CP2077

All game sizes are 50-58GB for all platforms PC included after installation.
Oodle Kraken explains the very high CPU usage on PC, and explains why Jaguar processors are getting beaten down so badly in terms of decompressing textures on time. Also explains why the mid-gen refresh consoles get hurt so badly once they start driving their cars.

They are all definitely using oodle kraken for at least PC and Playstation. I do believe also for Xbox. They will use BCPack for Series editions when that patch arrives, but for X1X edition I'm not confident BC Pack is going to outperform Oodle Kraken in pure CPU decompress.

That can mean anything. As the game uses BC mode I doubt that the decompression hardware is used. But kraken can be (like many other compression-techs) very kind to CPUs or really stressful. It is only a question how good the data get's compressed. And I really don't know if the hardware solution of the PS5 can work with the highest compression-settings. I somehow doubt that. Normally hardware-compressions are mostly only compatible with the lowest settings, just because fixed function hardware is not dynamic enough to always get the best setting for the data.
Btw, according to golem.de the game on Playstation needs >101GB. But they wonder why.

 

[turkey]

what? no much more than 10%.

when your textures decompression is tied in with your frame rate? it's not a static figure for all framerates.



You should recognize that X1X does not have a hardware decoder. And CP2077 on XSX is running the X1X variant. If X1X using Oddle Kraken like everyone else does, the XSX cannot use it's hardware decoder.

I am fairly sure there are RAD tech names that get thrown together that don't mean they have to be exclusively used together.

Oodle is the texture format that allows compression, Kracken is their compression lib.

Checking their oodle Kracken slide shows specifically that it supports Zlib which would be hardware for Xbox One and Series hardware. Kraken compression works better than Zlib but to say Oodle textures mean no hardware decompression on Xbox platform seems more than a little suspect.

From Rad games.

Oodle Texture is used in conjunction with a generic lossless compressor. It works great with Oodle Data Compression but can also be used with compressors that may be built into your platform.

Edit: and for final processing you ideally use the GPU also
From Fabian on twitter
GPU BC7Prep decoding will now also ship on Xbox One, Xbox Series X and PS4.

 

[Globalisateur]

The performance mode on series x has also better assets (textures, shadows, ...). But that should only be the case because the one x has more memory for the game than the ps4 pro. Because it is just a BC game right now, the game looks generally better on series x (now).
But the series x seems to have more problems with the performance. But, well, the engine is just not optimized. The Performance on the base-machines is in the lower 20fps territory so I really don't expect stable 60. A quality mode for PS5 (before the next-gen patch) would be optimal.



That can mean anything. As the game uses BC mode I doubt that the decompression hardware is used. But kraken can be (like many other compression-techs) very kind to CPUs or really stressful. It is only a question how good the data get's compressed. And I really don't know if the hardware solution of the PS5 can work with the highest compression-settings. I somehow doubt that. Normally hardware-compressions are mostly only compatible with the lowest settings, just because fixed function hardware is not dynamic enough to always get the best setting for the data.
Btw, according to golem.de the game on Playstation needs >101GB. But they wonder why.

No. Same settings in the perf mode.

 

[iroboto]

I am fairly sure there are RAD tech names that get thrown together that don't mean they have to be exclusively used together.

Oodle is the texture format that allows compression, Kracken is their compression lib.

Checking their oodle Kracken slide shows specifically that it supports Zlib which would be hardware for Xbox One and Series hardware. Kraken compression works better than Zlib but to say Oodle textures mean no hardware decompression on Xbox platform seems more than a little suspect.

From Rad games.

Oodle Texture is used in conjunction with a generic lossless compressor. It works great with Oodle Data Compression but can also be used with compressors that may be built into your platform.

Edit: and for final processing you ideally use the GPU also
From Fabian on twitter
GPU BC7Prep decoding will now also ship on Xbox One, Xbox Series X and PS4.

good discussion here. You're right that we should ask to confirm because oodle and kraken can be separated.
it still eats resources either way.

But I mean, all the versions so far are capped around 59GB. I just checked the XBO edition.
If someone wants to check the PS4 and 4Pro editions, I'd be wiling to bet it's also the same size.
This is a large game. I look at other games that are older and they are significantly larger in size. CP2077 is about the same size as Valhalla and seems to line up with other next gen titles in terms of total footprint.

 

[iroboto]

Btw, according to golem.de the game on Playstation needs >101GB. But they wonder why.

PS4 requires double the drive space to install anything IIRC. Can someone check the size of this on regular PS4? @DSoup ? @London Geezer

I'm not sure on the hardware aspect. I think even with BC you could ask it to check for hardware decoding before decoding with software. That shouldn't be too painful. ie; both Series S and Series X and do 'performance' and 'quality' modes that are not available on X1X. But the devkit used was XDK, not GDK.

I think CDPR can bend some of the rules of the nature of what BC is here, considering PS5 is running 60fps and that's not available on 4Pro.

 

[Deleted member 7537]

yeap, it's PS4/XBO code but running at higher framerate/resolution

 

[Karamazov]

my cyberpunk takes 117Go on my external drive.