Playstation 5 [PS5] [Release November 12 2020]

Looking at Sony's SSD patents, why do they need a "large" SRAM?

https://patents.google.com/patent/J...TO+HIDEYUKI&oq=SAITO+HIDEYUKI&sort=new&page=3
LBA size can be shrunk up to 32KiB for game installs for a 1TB SSD

https://patents.google.com/patent/J...TO+HIDEYUKI&oq=SAITO+HIDEYUKI&sort=new&page=3
This patent talks about using the SSD and SRAM cache as the working memory instead DRAM to reduce power consumption in standby state.
This how they are achieving 0.5W in rest mode? How much SRAM is needed?

One possible use case would be to serve as a scratchpad for the decryption and decompression hardware on-die.
Another claim in one of the patents discussed some time ago had the disk system writing to a secured buffer in the OS address space first, then reading from that buffer for the unpack process and writing to the final destination requested by the game. It may be more efficient if the architecture can keep that intermediate buffer on-die rather than duplicating traffic to RAM. Depending on the granularity of the accesses and the number of them in-flight, that alone could take a fair amount of storage. NAND pages can be in the hundreds of KiB, for example. I'm not sure if the storage needs to account for the uncompressed or compressed size of the payload before writing to the final destination. Compression would work best if it happened before encryption, so the reverse could allow for the decrypted data to then be streamed to RAM as part of the decompression process. However, if there's any other action that needs to be done on the data before final commit, it might need to happen while on-die and decompressed. That would be a sizeable inflation factor.

so looking at RDNA
we have
L0 (CU) fastest
L1 (Shader Array) slower
L2 (All Shader engines) slowest
and now we are adding infinity cache. ?

I have seen many people try to call Infinity Cache as L3, but I don't think that's accurate they would have just called it L3.
The infinity cache is labelled as the LLC in various code changes.
From AMD's footnotes on RDNA2:
"Measurement calculated by AMD engineering, on a Radeon RX 6000 series card with 128 MB AMD Infinity Cache and 256-bit GDDR6. Measuring 4k gaming average AMD Infinity Cache hit rates of 58% across top gaming titles, multiplied by theoretical peak bandwidth from the 16 64B AMD Infinity Fabric channels connecting the Cache to the Graphics Engine at boost frequency of up to 1.94 GHz. RX-535"

The cache is not tied directly to the same hierarchy as the GPU caches, and it's possible that some kind of extended storage linked to the memory-side portion of the fabric could be applied to other designs using the fabric. The number of cache layers they have before getting the the LLC would be variable. It's also possible that they didn't want to be caught up in the random cache naming games played by the GPU side.

The GPU's handling of its caches is also architecturally distinct, since there's a fair amount of explicit cache handling at the instruction level that this new cache isn't visible to. There is handling for the LLC, but being done at the virtual memory page level means the GPU ISA cannot control it in the same way as the others, and this may also make it more extendable to other types of chip.

Are we sure L2 is still there?
There are code changes related to Navi 21 that show ongoing use of it.

why bother calling it infinity cache then? There's like 40MB of L3 on A100 cards or something like that.
This could go back to how it connects to everything. Unlike other caches, it's not directly linked to the internal hierarchy but is accessed through an infinity fabric link. The numbers for Navi 21 may indicate that these caches are tied to the memory controllers or the infinity fabric stop used by each controller node.
 
I saw someone on this forum say on Saturday that the it was HDMI2.0 when someone else stated it was 2.1.

It's good to have it rectified.

Confusion started when somebody posted a pic of the PS5 HDMI cable jacket where it only says "High Speed HDMI" & not "Ultra High Speed HDMI". The latter is only for HDMI 2.1 cables that meet the official licensing requirements. Maybe they got a early sample & the actual retail units will have the licensed HDMI 2.1 cable? Or maybe their not allowed to use that label on the cable in a system pack-in? Who knows.

Tommy McClain
 
I mean if there were system sellers on launch day I might say fuck it....but there isn't. You are basically upgrading a PC when buying the new consoles at this point. What's an extra month out an entire ~7 year generation....
The new controller is a system seller for me, of course SSD is a major biggie too. To me as a PS gamer it’s a no brainier.

Seems to be confirmation PS5 does indeed come with an HDMI 2.1 cable.

Surely nobody worth our time believed that it was shipping with anything but an HDMI 2.1 cable?
Well I took a screen shot of an unboxing and looked up the lead number- it’s the same as a HDMI 2.0 - so did he swap it out?
 
Well I took a screen shot of an unboxing and looked up the lead number- it’s the same as a HDMI 2.0 - so did he swap it out?

Maybe its what the PS5 Pre-registration lottery was about? :LOL:
 
You can make a pretty good argument for the load time reduction via ssd and resolution improvements being system sellers. I use my xbox one, XSX can play all the games only better. Same for ps5.

There's no point in waiting unless you're waiting years for a cost reduction.

This is pretty much 90% of the deal for me. I have so many games to finish/platinum and I’ve been holding off until I get to play them on PS5.
 
I have so many games to finish/platinum and I’ve been holding off until I get to play them on PS5.

I hope your save games transfer and/or you're able to keep the PS4 version installed if they don't.

So what excuse will you use next to keep from playing Marvel's Avengers (assuming you said you didn't want to play it until PS5 arrives)? ;-)
 
I think it's more of a licensing issue and quality control issue. Sony doesn't want unverified faceplates running around doing damage to PS5s which are then blamed on to Sony.

The company probably didn't contact Sony that they wanted to do this either.

All a company has to do is make a face plate that doesn't match Sony's design but just happens to have some pegs in the correct positions that the fit into the holes on the PS5. There's nothing that Sony can do to stop that. They can trademark the design used by the PS5, but they can't actually prohibit the sale of something that isn't the same as that design, but just "happens to fit".

Like say side panels that are shaped like Viking Shields with crossed Axes.

Regards,
SB
 
Don't think we will see much in the way in price drops this gen. Any measly savings this gen will be used for increasing the SSD capacity.

I bet you will get a free game bundle next year and a price drop the following year. The price of the nvme drives going down will probably allow that. MS could ship an XSX sans bluray to shave off a few $. There's always ways to increase value, but i don't expect a shrink saving big dollars for quite a while.
 
I bet you will get a free game bundle next year and a price drop the following year. The price of the nvme drives going down will probably allow that. MS could ship an XSX sans bluray to shave off a few $. There's always ways to increase value, but i don't expect a shrink saving big dollars for quite a while.

I don't think there will be any price drops this gen...

They are already losing money, there are no savings on node shrinks anymore, and the storage is expensive as fuck. Sony may save some on cooling parts but not enough to offset everything else.

It's the reason MS released the Series S. The low price point is built-in from the start....
 
I don't think there will be any price drops this gen...

They are already losing money, there are no savings on node shrinks anymore, and the storage is expensive as fuck. Sony may save some on cooling parts but not enough to offset everything else.

It's the reason MS released the Series S. The low price point is built-in from the start....

There are always cost reductions to be had in manufacturing. The apu isn't most of the cost, it is the single biggest thing, but the price on memory and the ssd should come down.
 
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