How to sell next-gen consoles, Marketing, Positioning, and Pricing [2020]

[Deleted member 86764]

I'm genuinely taken aback by the above two responses. It does logically make sense though if you’ve both got high specced PCs.

In a way I'm disappointed that Xbox doesn't offer any unique selling points to draw people in. Maybe they didn't want that?

 

[PSman1700]

I'm genuinely taken aback by the above two responses. It does logically make sense though if you’ve both got high specced PCs.

In a way I'm disappointed that Xbox doesn't offer any unique selling points to draw people in. Maybe they didn't want that?

Well, i was never going to get an Xbox, since there's no reason to for me. I'm a pc gamer, been that since the mid 90's, so.... i have a gaming pc, which usually is high end. Everything MS/Xbox is on PC, since my current pc outspecs the XSX, and it's connected to the TV, i see no reason for an Xbox console.
The only way MS is 'drawing me in' is on Windows, or in other words, their software side. Their hardware side doesn't offer anything for me.

The PS5 does offer me exclusives that i would miss out on by not owning it, or having to wait untill the generation ends to be able to play eventual ports on the PC.
PC and PS is just a killer combo i think. I'm not into Nintendo, so that i won't even consider.

I can imagine for other people though, that are not so much into PC gaming, that an XSX or lockhart would be rather intresting since PC gaming is more expensive. To those people i would say, upgrade or get that new pc a couple of years in and get that mid range pc that outperforms any console for the MS games.

I wonder if the PC could become a central patform in the future sometime? I mean by both MS and Sony offering their games their via their own 'gamepass' system?

Edit: I also like Sony still having that 'jump' like forbidden west etc over current gen. At the same time i like MS offering everyone the ability to enjoy their next games on all platforms, like infinite and FS2020. Both are doing something different.
I can understand most liking Sony's strategy more, the ratio is like 85% in favor of PS5 some have reported (in their country). Here in my country it seems about the same ratio.

 

[iroboto]

I'm genuinely taken aback by the above two responses. It does logically make sense though if you’ve both got high specced PCs.

In a way I'm disappointed that Xbox doesn't offer any unique selling points to draw people in. Maybe they didn't want that?

lol... its true that I spend my time defending xbox on this forum. I was actually super close to going PS4 this generation, but I had a snafu with my game being shipped on PS3 and not getting paid the full amount, and that just made me bitter about it; MS also announced Xbox's as being devkits, so that was a draw as well.

XBOX gaming seems really misunderstood to me. And I think the reason we see the success of it's games on PC, is largely because most of their games (and studios) all have PC heritage. And it sorta sucks that everyone trashes xbox, because honestly, they are great games, probably better on PC and not as well adapted to console, but never the less, still great. Seeing the return of MS to the PC gaming space is important, the return of AOE, FS, now finally Halo, and other racing games. A return to freelancer would be nice if I could say so as well.

But it gets grating to see people tear down specific games because they aren't a particular 'type' of game that they like to play. It's super grating for me to see the only games that ever receive major kudos, are all games where I spend a lot of time watching. And I think that's why you see me defending Xbox as much as I do.

I grew up playing games where I did stuff, and the controls weren't taken away from me.

 

[PSman1700]

lol... its true that I spend my time defending xbox on this forum. I was actually super close to going PS4 this generation, but I had a snafu with my game being shipped on PS3 and not getting paid the full amount, and that just made me bitter about it; MS also announced Xbox's as being devkits, so that was a draw as well.

XBOX gaming seems really misunderstood to me. And I think the reason we see the success of it's games on PC, is largely because most of their games (and studios) all have PC heritage. And it sorta sucks that everyone trashes xbox, because honestly, they are great games, probably better on PC and not as well adapted to console, but never the less, still great. Seeing the return of MS to the PC gaming space is important, the return of AOE, FS, now finally Halo, and other racing games.

But it gets grating to see people tear down specific games because they aren't a particular 'type' of game that they like to play. It's super grating for me to see the only games that ever receive major kudos, are all games where I spend a lot of time watching. And I think that's why you see me defending Xbox as much as I do.

I grew up playing games where I did stuff, and the controls weren't taken away from me.

This comment applies to me too for the most.

 

[Daozang]

I started with a PC, and missed on the first console generations because I always thought of them as inferior (being young, does make you kinda stupid )
Then I played Metal Gear Solid at a friends house, and was immediately sold.
Since then, I owned a PS2, Xbox, PS3, XBox360, and PS4.
But, I never gave up on gaming PCs, even when PC gaming was "dying" every other week.
And at some point, even in the 360 days, it became apparent, at least to me, that if I were to continue to have a PC, I wouldn't need an Xbox...
Sony always gave me incentive to buy their consoles in the form of exclusives.
MS had so little in actual exclusives, that investing on one of their machines seemed really excessive.
And even after the fiasco that was the XBoxOne marketing, the XBoxOneX (a very good console) had nothing to provide to me that my PC couldn't do better.
I just needed them, to give me something to jump back in, but it never happened.
We'll see how it will go this time around.

 

[disco_]

How much time will they have to make the sales pitch for lockhart, and educate the public about the distinction between the two SKUs?

Or they could just not do it. Tell them "cheapest next gen console, buy it!" and wait for $$ to roll in.

 

[orangpelupa]

Same here, going for the PS5, and keep my current pc, no upgrades (2080Ti/3900X/32GB/nvme). I will be able to play everything that's going to be on xbox, better at that, and everything else multiplatform on the pc, again the best way to play it anyway. The PS5 will serve for the exclusives and maybe games that are console oriented anyway. Would sony games appear on pc il get them there (too).

I hope sony will output more exclusives this time around then the PS4 generation, and more at the beginning at that. It seems they will, forbidden west is aimed for a 2021 release, latter half of the year at that, about a year after PS5 launch, which is abit late-ish for me. No idea about their other exclusives, but they seem to be closer to launch at least. For the PS4, i had about one to two a year at max. A more steady output would be wishfull, but i can understand that's not really possible with the quality/length we got from sony AAA's this generation.
Some sony/PS5 MP exclusive would be killer i think.

Offcourse, it would be nice to see the PS5 having an advantage in multiplat games as opposed to XSX and PC, maybe in loading or streaming/assets. It strengthens the reason to have a PS5 from the get-go. I remember the PS2 being the weakest (it came 18 months earlier), but it's multiplat games had some advantages here and there, like better blur effects etc.

i think that's what MS' plan. PC gamers to stay happy with PC and buy PC games. Console gamers will buy either or both PS and Xbox. They don't plan on forcing PC gamers to buy xbox like they used to. Heck, with xcloud, xbox games should be able to be played from any devices. It doesnt matter what device you use as long as MS get your money.

i'll probably be like you too. buy PS5 instead of xsx. my PC probably only able to run games at low/med tho But i'll probably wont be extending my PS Plus anymore (already got it stacked to..... 2 years more... i think...). As awesome sony exclusives usually are single player games.

 

[BoardBonobo]

I started in the arcade and got a VCS as my first console. I think my most played game on my PC of the time was Mines of Moria (CGA was not good for games ). And then shareware (and beerware) started up as a concept and PC gaming started to get interesting but by that time my Amiga 1000 had arrived and I was a very happy bunny. The Amiga is still, by a long way, my favourite piece of hardware.

Then I got a PS1 and the dinosaur demo blew me away and so I progressed with every Sony console since. PC gaming sort of fell to the way side. I think Unreal\Half Life 2 were my last PC games. Then MS brought the OG Xbox out (which I still have, I was playing Halo and Black the other day) and I became a Halo addict So I bought an Xbox 360 just for Halo 3 and was sorely dissapointed. Dipped my toes in with Reach but by then Halo was just a over milked franchise that brought nothing to the table that wasn't being done better elsewhere. Which is why Infinite it a sad development. It just seems to have no soul left.

I skipped the Xbox One as all the games I wanted to play were on Sonys platform - that unique console experience that MS seems so intent on destroying, the old arcade feeling . And all the games that were of any merit on XBox appeared on PC anwyay. Which is why I'll skip Series X as well, there is no reason to buy one and MS have actively backed that up by telling me that I don't need to buy one.

My current PC is total overkill for gaming but that's not what it's for really, it's built for my job (threadripper,2x2080ti,64Gb,12Tb SSDs), but it works.

So I'll be buying a PS5 for the unique gaming experience that is so reminiscent of the arcade days and has a flavour that just can't be beaten by games that spread themselves too thin across multiple platforms.

 

[PSman1700]

and beerware

Wtf is beerwhare?

threadripper,2x2080ti,64Gb,12Tb SSDs

Damn that's some impressive specs, understand you won't need an xsx then, but people that cant afford pc gaming, or want the ease of use an xsx could be an alternative.

So I'll be buying a PS5 for the unique gaming experience that is so reminiscent of the arcade days and has a flavour that just can't be beaten by games that spread themselves too thin across multiple platforms.

Yes same for me, i think that's the reason sony and nintendo do so well in the console hardware market, aside from brand loyality then. MS doesn't want or need to compete in the console hardware market, i think it's hard for them to also. An advantage to that is they can scale well beyond XSX/console hardware due to pc hardware.

I still have my OG xbox's too, it was such a great console for it's time, very powerfull. It offered 480p for every game, some even 720p or 1080i, and default DD5.1. Halo CE was a blast in coop and local MP, bloodgulch memories Graphics where something else too, better then what PS2 and GC offered, Halo, Halo2, D3, far cry, HL2.... DOA3 etc, i think atleast og xbox was as much about next gen as PS was/is, same for 360 i think.

 

[BoardBonobo]

Wtf is beerwhare?

Myself and a friend cut our teeth writing in assembler and Turbo Pascal. The utilities we used to create were released as shareware. But then one day I was on a bb and an american guy suggested we release stuff as beerware instead. Quite simply instead of a small cash donation to the pot they buy you a beer insetad. Much more realxed!!

Damn that's some impressive specs, understand you won't need an xsx then, but people that cant afford pc gaming, or want the ease of use an xsx could be an alternative.

I work in cybersecurity and do a lot with encryption testing, hashing etc so it has to have some serious compute

Yes same for me, i think that's the reason sony and nintendo do so well in the console hardware market, aside from brand loyality then. MS doesn't want or need to compete in the console hardware market, i think it's hard for them to also. An advantage to that is they can scale well beyond XSX/console hardware due to pc hardware.

Never owned a Nintendo (too twee for me) but I was one of the lucky ones who managed to get a Switch just before the lockdown started. And then I only played the Witcher 3 but now I have branched out to Warframe, Skyrim, and Hellblade. Still not liking Zelda though.

I still have my OG xbox's too, it was such a great console for it's time, very powerfull. It offered 480p for every game, some even 720p or 1080i, and default DD5.1. Halo CE was a blast in coop and local MP, bloodgulch memories Graphics where something else too, better then what PS2 and GC offered, Halo, Halo2, D3, far cry, HL2.... DOA3 etc, i think atleast og xbox was as much about next gen as PS was/is, same for 360 i think.

See I think that when MS created the OG Xbox they actually got games, but they have moved into a far too corporate space with them now and have lost their way.

 

[Daozang]

i think that's what MS' plan. PC gamers to stay happy with PC and buy PC games. Console gamers will buy either or both PS and Xbox. They don't plan on forcing PC gamers to buy xbox like they used to. Heck, with xcloud, xbox games should be able to be played from any devices. It doesnt matter what device you use as long as MS get your money.

I agree.
My only concern with their strategy is kind of existential in nature...
If this is the way forward, will games with extremely high production values be viable?
Can the Naughty Dogs and R*s of this world continue to do what they do with a low subscription, and with the varying means by which their product will be consumed?
Is there a reason for them to release something so meticulously detailed, if chances are good, it will be consumed on a 5 inch display?
Will they be able to afford such high production costs on such a low subscription?
Will they be able to take risks?
Ultimately, will this advance the medium or hinder its progress?

On one hand there is good quantitative value in their proposition, and that is a certainty.
On the other hand, the definition of quality, is not clear cut, when it comes to popular art, (Film, TV, books and video games).
It stands to reason, that what I consider quality is not everyone's cup of tea.
I just like the fact that the strive for excellence and the risk associated with it are an option right now, but can only hope that this will be the case if the financial model shifts dramatically towards a Netflix equivalence.

I work in cybersecurity and do a lot with encryption testing, hashing etc so it has to have some serious compute

I have my HSMs for that
My 9900K and my 2080 are just for games

 

[Barrabas]

So I'll be buying a PS5 for the unique gaming experience that is so reminiscent of the arcade days and has a flavour that just can't be beaten by games that spread themselves too thin across multiple platforms.

Yes, and that's the feeling I get closing in to the release date of a game I really want. Special games for me I like to buy on discs as I do with Blu-ray movies. For me that special feeling get's lowered if the games just appears on a subscription service, just like my increasing stockpile of free PS+ games I rarely play and try. For me I like the model of buying new games at full price. It gives me that extra feeling of excitement and importance. Good games I miss out on release I can get at a discount either digitally or on disc later, if there are a dry period of new releases or games I just want. Yes maybe I am a bit old fashioned about this, but that's me growing up from the 1970's buying music on CD's back in the days

 

[London Geezer]

Can the Naughty Dogs and R*s of this world continue to do what they do with a low subscription, and with the varying means by which their product will be consumed?

They cannot. I don’t care what anybody says, this would never ever work.

GTA5 has made around $6 BILLION alone. Rockstar will never, ever, ever want to mess that up and they will never, ever get that kind of cash from a subscription service. Even with less insane revenues, it does not add up.

 

[orangpelupa]

Yes, and that's the feeling I get closing in to the release date of a game I really want. Special games for me I like to buy on discs as I do with Blu-ray movies. For me that special feeling get's lowered if the games just appears on a subscription service, just like my increasing stockpile of free PS+ games I rarely play and try. For me I like the model of buying new games at full price. It gives me that extra feeling of excitement and importance. Good games I miss out on release I can get at a discount either digitally or on disc later, if there are a dry period of new releases or games I just want. Yes maybe I am a bit old fashioned about this, but that's me growing up from the 1970's buying music on CD's back in the days

That comment about PS plus games that didn't get played, maybe it's due to selection bias? All games that you want to play you already bought them. Thus the ps plus free games are "unwanted" games.

 

[iroboto]

They cannot. I don’t care what anybody says, this would never ever work.

GTA5 has made around $6 BILLION alone. Rockstar will never, ever, ever want to mess that up and they will never, ever get that kind of cash from a subscription service. Even with less insane revenues, it does not add up.

GTAV and RDR2 have been on game pass despite being probably among the highest grossing for a single title. It's not exactly cut and dry I think. The only games I've never seen on game pass, or seldom ever go on sale is Call of Duty

 

[Daozang]

GTA5 has made around $6 BILLION alone. Rockstar will never, ever, ever want to mess that up and they will never, ever get that kind of cash from a subscription service. Even with less insane revenues, it does not add up.

I think that the only way to do it, is if it adds a level of prestige and subsequent value to your offering.
But it will be at a loss.
You will need a "Fortnight" (or more than one) for excessive revenue, to fund a "GTA5" for the prestige, all the while hoping that the former will cover the loss of the later and then some.
That to me sounds insane...

GTAV and RDR2 have been on game pass despite being probably among the highest grossing for a single title. It's not exactly cut and dry I think. The only games I've never seen on game pass, or seldom ever go on sale is Call of Duty

I am speculating about a financial model, where subscription is the prevalent option.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

There is a lot of stuff 343i needs to do. Namely 4 platforms, new tools, new engine, development he’ll, COVID, and then make release.

This might be the main reason why Halo Infinite didn't look that good, the fact that developers are spreading too thin to make sure the game works on 4 different consoles, while maintaining the perception that it's a solid game within 313i's usual portfolio.
I don't know how the hell a developer could make a game like Halo Infinite that supposedly needs to show off a brand new 12TF RDNA2 raytracing GPU and 3.6GHz Zen2 cores with 530GB/s but then it also needs to look very good on a 1.3TFLOPs GCN2 GPU and 1.75GHz Jaguar cores with 68GB/s (plus a tiny 100GB/s duplex pool), plus another two consoles in the middle with apparently similar GPU performance but distinct architectures.

I'm guessing Guerrilla could implode had Sony forced them to make Horizon Forbidden West run and push as much as possible the original PS4, plus the PS4 Pro, plus a hypothetical 4TFLOPs PS5 Lite. Perhaps we'd have seen Guerrilla's creative director leave the company this year instead.


For Microsoft's marketing, making their 1st party teams unable to show off the hardware with lots of lower-level optimizations and exclusive features might become a real problem until Microsoft lifts the all games for all xboxes mandate.

 

[London Geezer]

GTAV and RDR2 have been on game pass despite being probably among the highest grossing for a single title. It's not exactly cut and dry I think. The only games I've never seen on game pass, or seldom ever go on sale is Call of Duty

They are now, sure. They would never launch on it though.

 

[Daozang]

I'm guessing Guerrilla could implode had Sony forced them to make Horizon Forbidden West run and push as much as possible the original PS4, plus the PS4 Pro, plus a hypothetical 4TFLOPs PS5 Lite. Perhaps we'd have seen Guerrilla's creative director leave the company this year instead.

There is a very easy way to deal with that.
You develop a game for the base PS4 and up the resolution for the rest.
Kind of like Halo Infinite.
They would only have to scrap the flying robot riding, just like they did for the first game because of hardware restrictions, but hey, backwards compatibility!

 

[London Geezer]

There is a very easy way to deal with that.
You develop a game for the base PS4 and up the resolution for the rest.
Kind of like Halo Infinite.

Well, we can see Horizon on PC. It looks like a PS4 game, but with more resolution and framerate depending on your setup, and some more details here and there. The game still has that 'PS4 look' to it. Same for Death Stranding.

Personally, I don't want to buy a next gen console to play PS4 games with higher framerate and res. And I think that the general consensus is the same, otherwise there would not have been such a huge uproar at Halo Infinite and a generally universal praise for what Sony has shown so far.