Current Generation Hardware Speculation with a Technical Spin [post GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

[iroboto]

Right but the Canadian dollar is much weaker now than it was in 2013. Like I said $499USD = ~$684CAD right now. They are not give to shave a lot off for brand new consoles...even at $649CAD they'd be giving us a break...

I think we still sort of got a deal on X1X: IIRC 499 USD at the time translated to 648 CDN. But we only paid $599. 676 after tax IIRC.
I have my old EB games receipt and I’m pretty sure that was the charge.

historical rates as per BoC for that year. Can’t find October data though. Wish it were there
https://www.bankofcanada.ca/valet/o...csv?start_date=2017-01-01&end_date=2017-12-31

 

[mpg1]

I think we still sort of got a deal on X1X: IIRC 499 USD at the time translated to 648 CDN. But we only paid $599. 676 after tax IIRC.
I have my old EB games receipt and I’m pretty sure that was the charge.

Microsoft did give us a break with that X1X pricing. I'm just skeptical they are going to do it again given the exchange rate has grown.

It's possible if the PS5 digital edition is $449USD then that will end up at $599CAD.

 

[BRiT]

Speculation on unknown specification does not belong in this Tech thread.

 

[Jay]

Speculation on unknown specification does not belong in this Tech thread.

Speculation doesn't belong in a thread specifically called next gen speculation?

 

[iroboto]

Speculation doesn't belong in a thread specifically called next gen speculation?

until it exists, I think the other thread is for rumours

 

[BRiT]

Speculation doesn't belong in a thread specifically called next gen speculation?

Speculation on unknown specification. No. It doesn't belong.

This is for technical hardware speculation. Not for what do you feel some imaginary thing might impact.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Microsoft did give us a break with that X1X pricing. I'm just skeptical they are going to do it again given the exchange rate has grown.

It's possible if the PS5 digital edition is $449USD then that will end up at $599CAD.

Oh you are worried about a $100CAD. My countries exchange rate has grown/lost just short of double what it was end 2013. Then they increased the import tax about 6 years ago so I am likely to pay close to double what I paid for my PS4.

https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=ZAR&view=10Y

When I bought my PS4, I paid the then equivalent of $800 although that included Second Son and Killzone Shadow Fall games.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Can't wait for the calculations of how many re-spun PS4 Slims can fit into a PS5 chassis.

From the dimensions I have seen of the leaked PS5 .. i'd say x1.5 PS4 slim.

 

[mpg1]

Oh you are worried about a $100CAD. My countries exchange rate has grown/lost just short of double what it was end 2013. Then they increased the import tax about 6 years ago so I am likely to pay close to double what I paid for my PS4.

https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=ZAR&view=10Y

When I bought my PS4, I paid the then equivalent of $800 although that included Second Son and Killzone Shadow Fall games.

My original comment on the other page:

It's simple imo.

For instance here in Canada a $299USD Lockhart likely means a $399CAD Lockhart. A $499USD XSX/PS5 means very likely $649CAD given the exchange rate right now is @ $684CAD!! Shit it wouldn't surprise me if Sony priced PS5 at $699CAD given how they are even less flexible here when it comes to pricing around exchange rates..

That's ~$250 dollars in difference here. Now you can debate the downgrades and how weak it is but reality is it will play next gen games and it will be the cheapest by far especially in international markets.

 

[Jay]

Speculation on unknown specification. No. It doesn't belong.

This is for technical hardware speculation. Not for what do you feel some imaginary thing might impact.

Was actually joking, especially as that particular conversation I find degrades into more about people's feelings more than anything else.

 

[BRiT]

Was actually joking, especially as that particular conversation I find degrades into more about people's feelings more than anything else.

Yeah, I thought we were on the same page, so no problems. But ... I had to say it so it's clear to others.

It's a discussion we'll be having, likely multiple times over the next 2 or 3 years, just not now and not here. It'll have all the feels.

 

[disco_]

Yeah. Wouldn't surprise me if neither of them have full RDNA2. We'll know soon enough.


Tommy McClain

Can't be full rdna2 when they're part rdna3.

 

[iroboto]

Can't be full rdna2 when they're part rdna3.

lol

 

[smithg]

Yeah. Wouldn't surprise me if neither of them have full RDNA2. We'll know soon enough.

Based on the announced GPU feature sets from Sony and Microsoft (and how they line up against RDNA2 on PC), the GitHub leak from last year, and Cerny’s careful wording of a custom GPU from AMD “...based on their RDNA2 technology”, I have a hunch that PS5 has more in common with RDNA1 than RDNA2. I’m curious to see what devs start saying when NDAs start lifting and people get more experience with both GPUs.

 

[iroboto]

Based on the announced GPU feature sets from Sony and Microsoft (and how they line up against RDNA2 on PC), the GitHub leak from last year, and Cerny’s careful wording of a custom GPU from AMD “...based on their RDNA2 technology”, I have a hunch that PS5 has more in common with RDNA1 than RDNA2. I’m curious to see what devs start saying when NDAs start lifting and people get more experience with both GPUs.

MS has also been careful on this front. also using the wording .. based on their RDNA2 technology.

There is some evidence that I think would suggest that's not entirely clear cut what both did. But VRS is where I'm focusing my attention. There's frankly just no reason for Sony to remove it from their chip, and currently no reason for MS to have inserted their own VRS solution. Multiplatform titles that leverage VRS will have tells of what it looks like, and XSX will have it should have the same tells, if we don't see the said tells on PS5, then we know it's not present (either ever, or because the SDK doesn't yet support it).

If we see that it's not present on PS5, and we know MS inserted their own solution, that's pretty telling that perhaps the AMD Tier 2 VRS was not available for either. Which leads into the discussion if they really are using RDNA 2 as a base and customizing that... or that they started with RDNA 1 as a base and moved it towards RDNA 2.

Having said that, there are some outside reasons that could explain why MS went with their own VRS solution. I can't speak on that, but I suspect if it does come into play, we'd know at a later date. Perhaps as early as July, but I"m not expecting anything from it until 2021/22.

We won't know for a while however, there's no possible way to decode this pre-launch.

 

[smithg]

MS has also been careful on this front. also using the wording .. based on their RDNA2 technology.

There is some evidence that I think would suggest that's not entirely clear cut what both did. But VRS is where I'm focusing my attention. There's frankly just no reason for Sony to remove it from their chip, and currently no reason for MS to have inserted their own VRS solution. Multiplatform titles that leverage VRS will have tells of what it looks like, and XSX will have it should have the same tells, if we don't see the said tells on PS5, then we know it's not present (either ever, or because the SDK doesn't yet support it).

If we see that it's not present on PS5, and we know MS inserted their own solution, that's pretty telling that perhaps the AMD Tier 2 VRS was not available for either. Which leads into the discussion if they really are using RDNA 2 as a base and customizing that... or that they started with RDNA 1 as a base and moved it towards RDNA 2.

Having said that, there are some outside reasons that could explain why MS went with their own VRS solution. I can't speak on that, but I suspect if it does come into play, we'd know at a later date. Perhaps as early as July, but I"m not expecting anything from it until 2021/22.

We won't know for a while however, there's no possible way to decode this pre-launch.

They could be blurring definitions a bit, but Microsoft has said DX12 Ultimate requires tier 2 VRS, and that XBox Series X is DX12 Ultimate hardware.

Between VRS, Mesh Shading. Ray Tracing and Sampler Feedback, it seems like Series X is matching exactly what Microsoft is doing on PC with DX12U which is aimed at RDNA2 and Turing. The only announced feature on that list for PS5 is ray tracing, and the geometry engine feature sort of implies they won’t have mesh shading.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

They could be blurring definitions a bit, but Microsoft has said DX12 Ultimate requires tier 2 VRS, and that XBox Series X is DX12 Ultimate hardware.

Those requirements might not apply to MS. MS may require it for devs to certify DX12U compliance, but MS can put whatever hardware they want and run their own flavour of DX12. That's besides the point - XBSX has VRS Tier 2 because MS have said it has (they wouldn't put in a gimped VRS); just saying that what other IHVs are beholden too doesn't affect MS themselves.

 

[dobwal]

MS has also been careful on this front. also using the wording .. based on their RDNA2 technology.

There is some evidence that I think would suggest that's not entirely clear cut what both did. But VRS is where I'm focusing my attention. There's frankly just no reason for Sony to remove it from their chip, and currently no reason for MS to have inserted their own VRS solution. Multiplatform titles that leverage VRS will have tells of what it looks like, and XSX will have it should have the same tells, if we don't see the said tells on PS5, then we know it's not present (either ever, or because the SDK doesn't yet support it).

If we see that it's not present on PS5, and we know MS inserted their own solution, that's pretty telling that perhaps the AMD Tier 2 VRS was not available for either. Which leads into the discussion if they really are using RDNA 2 as a base and customizing that... or that they started with RDNA 1 as a base and moved it towards RDNA 2.

Having said that, there are some outside reasons that could explain why MS went with their own VRS solution. I can't speak on that, but I suspect if it does come into play, we'd know at a later date. Perhaps as early as July, but I"m not expecting anything from it until 2021/22.

We won't know for a while however, there's no possible way to decode this pre-launch.

Have we as forum discussed the possibility that AMD's VRS solution is based off MS's patent? Who is to say that Sony nor MS can't develop patented tech that AMD will readily incorporated into their PC designs?

 

[iroboto]

Have we as forum discussed the possibility that AMD's VRS solution is based off MS's patent?

It’s never come up. AMD has its own patent. If it uses MS patent I suspect a long term licensing fee agreement. Considering how tight margins can be, I can’t see this happening.

 

[dobwal]

It’s never come up. AMD has its own patent. If it uses MS patent I suspect a long term licensing fee agreement. Considering how tight margins can be, I can’t see this happening.

That seems to be the result of us never considering that MS patents aren't necessarily confined to OS or api related research. I don't recall cross licensing agreements having to be publicized. AMD patent may be related to a specific hardware implementation of VRS thats based off MS's patent.

AMD and MS rolling out two different VRS designs for the same arch seems counterproductive.