Stadia, Google Game Streaming platform [2019-2021]

[Shifty Geezer]

The fact Google were swimming against the tide of public opinion means they should have waited a bit and launched in a stronger position. eg. Achievements have just been enabled in Stadia. Why did Stadia launch in November instead of waiting for December with Achievements working? If we look at the long todo list Google has, why launch in November instead of say March when that list is completely and the naysayers wouldn't have buckets of ammunition to chuck at Stadia? Why launch in November with a controller that has issues with routers especially Google's own one instead of rolling out hardware to a closed Beta, seeing the router problems, debugging them, and then launching a robust public service in March/June/Whenever? What's the rush in getting a super flaky streaming service out there now making a really bad impression instead of leaving it in the oven another 6 months? What would Google have lost, when it's really obvious what they'd have gained (positive coverage and the naysayers being shown what the possibilities of Cloud streaming are)?

 

[iroboto]

The fact Google were swimming against the tide of public opinion means they should have waited a bit and launched in a stronger position. eg. Achievements have just been enabled in Stadia. Why did Stadia launch in November instead of waiting for December with Achievements working? If we look at the long todo list Google has, why launch in November instead of say March when that list is completely and the naysayers wouldn't have buckets of ammunition to chuck at Stadia? Why launch in November with a controller that has issues with routers especially Google's own one instead of rolling out hardware to a closed Beta, seeing the router problems, debugging them, and then launching a robust public service in March/June/Whenever? What's the rush in getting a super flaky streaming service out there now making a really bad impression instead of leaving it in the oven another 6 months? What would Google have lost, when it's really obvious what they'd have gained (positive coverage and the naysayers being shown what the possibilities of Cloud streaming are)?

I think mpg1 sort of touched on that. Perhaps they didn't know they had all those issues. Internal testing may have proven they were ready to roll. There's a million reasons why things go wrong; but most of the time it comes down to money. Google was being cheap about it.

You watched the Chernobyl documentary about the tips of the control rods being a different material - but the result of a shut down would cause a spike in power. Those tips were used just to save costs.

Google may have decided not to continue testing more thoroughly and felt that had done sufficient enough testing that they could hit launch dates. And they failed. They should have spent more time in beta and just decide to keep adding more and more people to see how the system would respond. But that costs money. Time is money and more testers cost more money. That is what MS is doing right now; just feeling it out. XCloud will be in beta for a very long time. But they can afford to be because their division can be leveraged since it's established and profitable.

 

[mpg1]

I think part of them launching now was also wanting to get out ahead of next gen. By launching in Nov of this year they have a year before next gen launches.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Okay. Why? Especially after the big noise they made about 10 TFs and then the really lacklustre results, they've just set themselves up for ridicule. Maybe that reason is their HW platform is going to look really weak against next-gen machines and is only impressive as paper specs? For the audience they are courting, that's probably not a problem, at which point though why even mention 10 TFs if games are going to be so-so-quality, 1080p blurfests?

 

[DavidGraham]

Stadia runs idTech7 @ 1440p60 with many drops to 50fps, with significant lag and latency to the point of hindering gameplay.

 

[iroboto]

For the audience they are courting, that's probably not a problem, at which point though why even mention 10 TFs if games are going to be so-so-quality, 1080p blurfests?

Hehe. 1080p blurfest. It does take a while for 4K to really settle in and find its spot.
as for Google they are very reliant on YouTube succeeding for them. I’d be curious to see how well Stadia will do when it is fully integrated with YouTube. Be able to start a game from there; join streamer games etc.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Hehe. 1080p blurfest. It does take a while for 4K to really settle in and find its spot.
as for Google they are very reliant on YouTube succeeding for them. I’d be curious to see how well Stadia will do when it is fully integrated with YouTube. Be able to start a game from there; join streamer games etc.

'If' seems a better qualifier than when to me.

 

[Malo]

Stadia runs idTech7 @ 1440p60 with many drops to 50fps, with significant lag and latency to the point of hindering gameplay.

If Stadia can't run a Vulkan-optimized idTech game at 4k60 then it doesn't bode well for anything else ever. Youngblood runs at 100+ average fps on a Vega 56 at 1440p.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

If you don't really give a shit about having local hardware (like myself) then Stadia is appealing as it just simply cheaper and more convenient overall.

This is certainly true if you already have internet that is capable of streaming games on Stadia without bandwidth caps.

However, if someone like me was interested, I'd have to invest an additional 50 USD a month in my internet service for it to be viable. Which works out to an additional 600 USD per year just to play Stadia games. Definitely not a cheaper alternative for people that can't afford or aren't already paying for top tier internet services.

Also, I'm not in one of the major cities with a local Stadia data center, so that would degrade the gaming service even more.

At that price, even PC gaming becomes incredibly affordable in comparison with the additional benefit of significantly better control response and graphics.

Regards,
SB

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I think mpg1 sort of touched on that. Perhaps they didn't know they had all those issues. Internal testing may have proven they were ready to roll. There's a million reasons why things go wrong; but most of the time it comes down to money. Google was being cheap about it.

That's why you do like Microsoft has done with Xcloud. It's obviously still a BETA product at best, operate it as such. Don't launch it to retail and then act surprised (as Google have done) when all the negativity starts flowing in and people start recommending to their friends to never touch the service and instead get either the PlayStation streaming service or wait for Xcloud.

Only small indies or companies who don't think their service is going to last and plans on folding it (get as much money as they can first) make people pay to play something that is so obviously unfinished.

Regards,
SB

 

[mpg1]

I know the ability to share your Stadia stream to Youtube in 4K is coming. It be interesting to know how this is handled technically and how much of it is done on the Stadia instance. There could be sizeable reserve on the instance to handle the live youtube streaming and might explain the less than expected performance we are seeing.

 

[Malo]

There could be sizeable reserve on the instance to handle the live youtube streaming and might explain the less than expected performance we are seeing.

How is it different than sending the stream to another location in addition to the client? It's not as though you need to double encode really?

How much impact on something like a Vega 56 is there for real-time encoding h265? I thought the VCE was a dedicated part of the GPU and the impact was negligible?

 

[liolio]

Not that follow anything game related closely these days but I think Google is nearing zero traction with that product and that is only a couple months after launch.
They should contat me and give me some money, the whole initiative needs a reset.

Happy new year good folks

 

[wco81]

Yeah I hear the number playing Destiny 2 is like zero.

What does it cost?

Now that there’s more reporting of next gen, they really need a compelling value proposition to get gamers to buy in.

 

[AzBat]

They need to change it to a subscription only model like Game Pass Ultimate. Nobody will try it out when you still have to buy your games separately. Only way it would work is if you get a free PC copy with your purchase.

Tommy McClain

 

[tuna]

There are pretty long latencies in certain situations with the default scheduler used in Linux: https://probablydance.com/2019/12/3...ks-and-how-bad-the-linux-scheduler-really-is/

It does not really make sense to use spin-locks on a system with allocated threads (like Linux or Windows), but on consoles it might lead to better performance. Anyway, this is something Google should fix.

 

[dobwal]

Hehe. 1080p blurfest. It does take a while for 4K to really settle in and find its spot.
as for Google they are very reliant on YouTube succeeding for them. I’d be curious to see how well Stadia will do when it is fully integrated with YouTube. Be able to start a game from there; join streamer games etc.

The moment that feature is turned on by Google is the moment most streamers will turn off the feature or leave for another service for live streaming.

LOL.

That's a "Troll me" button.

 

[BRiT]

The moment that feature is turned on by Google is the moment most streamers will turn off the feature or leave for another service for live streaming.

LOL.

That's a "Troll me" button.

I'm so looking forward to this feature now!

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Hehe. 1080p blurfest. It does take a while for 4K to really settle in and find its spot.
as for Google they are very reliant on YouTube succeeding for them. I’d be curious to see how well Stadia will do when it is fully integrated with YouTube. Be able to start a game from there; join streamer games etc.

Most decent streaming tech establishes the quality of your internet connection over time and whenever your stream anything - video, audio, a remote desktop, gaming - it'll aim for something modest relative your the history of your connection to minimise the delay to the start of streaming, then it'll begin to ramp up.

Unlike video, Stadia (or any gaming streaming service) does not the luxury of building in a buffering delay where it can adaptively change the quality ahead of the video currently in the buffer and Netflix's implementation of this is phenomenal. I've not used PlayStation Now since I was in the beta but it was also very good at establishing the quality of your connection and ramping up fast but it's a longer ramp to 4K depending on where you start. 1080p to 4K is a long hill, PS Now never started so relative relative to even a 1080p stream.

It sounds like Stadia has to work to do but where Stadia may struggle compared to PlayStation Now or other dedicated boxes, it much of the tech requires on a robust QoS implementation from the device to your ISP, where traffic shaping kicks in and no doubt Google have much influence with ISPs on this. But if your running any part of Stadia behind a VPN, QoS is effectively nullified unless you've configured this manually.

There are challenges to streaming games where latency is measured in the ballpark of multiples of 16 microseconds.

 

[BRiT]

Stadia and Destiny 2 player counts -- https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulta...-by-more-than-half-since-launch/#18230a7a2604

Destiny 2’s Google Stadia Population Has Dropped By More Than Half Since Launch

If Stadia had a flagship launch game, it would be Destiny 2, which is not only offered free with the Pro subscription, but is a rare game that takes advantage of cross save, meaning that your existing Destiny 2 characters can be played on Stadia-friendly devices. It’s theoretically the best use case for the service.

And yet if you’ve been tracking the player population, interest in the Stadia version of Destiny appears to be fading. While yes, we are moving away from the Shadowkeep expansion launch and into the less engaging Season of Dawn, we are not seeing similar drops on other platforms.

Here are the player populations for Destiny 2 on its platforms on November 26, 2019, about a week after Stadia launched:
PC: 494,000
PS4: 454,000
Xbox: 331,000
Stadia: 19,400

And here are the player populations yesterday, just over a month later (via Charlemagne.io):
PC: 437,000
PS4: 435,000
Xbox: 313,000
Stadia: 8,020​