Baseless Next Generation Rumors with no Technical Merits [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

[Shifty Geezer]

Not swapping a major component out, no. But could Microsoft could theoretically have better yields than Sony allowing them to reduce their CU reservation? Sure. The reverse is also true.

Hypothetically. Realistically though, what could cause one console company to have better yields than the other if using the same architecture and manufacturers? The only way I can see one company having a performance advantage is more silicon (or better cooling etc) at a higher price, with a fringe chance of having a better performing tech in storage or raytracing where using in-house tech.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Hypothetically. Realistically though, what could cause one console company to have better yields than the other if using the same architecture and manufacturers?

Layout of the cores and quality of the wafers can have a huge influence on the resultant delivered semiconductors. Poor layout of IC block can result in overheating and cheaping with wafers can result in lower yields. It was widely believed that the initial 360 failures were due to poor IC layout which Microsoft did in-house, they later outsourced the redesign.

 

[ultragpu]

Not swapping a major component out, no. But could Microsoft could theoretically have better yields than Sony allowing them to reduce their CU reservation? Sure. The reverse is also true. And in terms of memory, I would imagine that both manufacturers have built into their core design a degree of flexibility given how RAM prices fluctuate across RAM types. PS4 4Gb -> 8Gb was straight forward using GDDR5 clamshell setup but I wouldn't bank on such a large last-minute capacity upgrade with nextgen unless their current target is already low, like 12Gb.

Even with solid state storage, I hope they'll looking to let games have access to a minimum of 14Gb separate from the OS.



He's doubling down.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1200919652442034176

Unless Scalett is going wide and low clock, then they would need more CU reservation I guess, but that's just a design difference. A high clock, narrow APU assuming PS5 is using would probably not care as much as long as cooling is good enough.

 

[PSman1700]

If 12TF GPU is a beast then so is 10TF.

And so is 8 then.

 

[iroboto]

I don't think any of that has anything to do with the judgements being made about the each platform's relative capabilities. You don't deceive developers about hardware capabilities in order to trace potential leaks.

Right i agree with that. I think both Sony and MS can get off on a technicality by telling them that they final devkit will contain their target hardware but to use the current “kit” as representative of the hardwares feature set and performance without giving out the target/final specs.
In doing so you don’t have to ship the same boxes to everyone.

if you are working with more than 1 PS5 or XB2 variant; it would be an effective way to get more feedback before choosing your final one.

once again, I do agree it’s a grey area. But I do know that companies do enlist these types of strategies to fish out leakers in partners so that they can have discussions with them or private; or give them slower access to hardware in the future etc.

 

[iroboto]

Not swapping a major component out, no. But could Microsoft could theoretically have better yields than Sony allowing them to reduce their CU reservation? Sure.

You could have a couple variants of the chip ready and being tested. So you’re not changing the design; it’s just coming down to green lighting a design. And the green light could be the result of
a) developer feedback (in isolation; so that they don’t know there are other variants)
B) price/cost timing with vendors
C) release timing
D) performance

I mean; if It is true that they are behind in releasing hardware to the developers; they might be still trying to figure out which one to green light.

 

[ultragpu]

The comments on ResetEra are truly entertaining. This pre next gen speculation feels much like a whole season of The X Files , we know the truth is out there and everyone's fighting for their console future haha.

 

[PSman1700]

The comments on ResetEra are truly entertaining. This pre next gen speculation feels much like a whole season of The X Files , we know the truth is out there and everyone's fighting for their console future haha.

It's the most exciting fase of a next-gen console release

 

[Shifty Geezer]

...everyone's fighting for their console future haha.

that does almost seem to be the motivation, as if the arguments now are affecting the console and the fanboy's making a case for their machine to be better are somehow going to make it better.

 

[Shortbread]

that does almost seem to be the motivation, as if the arguments now are affecting the console and the fanboy's making a case for their machine to be better are somehow going to make it better.

What makes their fantasy arguments even weirder is that somehow AMD has supplied one console manufacture with a magical GPU/CPU that wasn’t befitting to share with the other. As if the shop owner (chip supplier) is running a racket and making deals under the table.

 

[Tkumpathenurpahl]

What makes their fantasy arguments even weirder is that somehow AMD has supplied one console manufacture with a magical GPU/CPU that wasn’t befitting to share with the other. As if the shop owner (chip supplier) is running a racket and making deals under the table.

Which is ludicrous.... because this isn't Nvidia.

 

[iroboto]

What makes their fantasy arguments even weirder is that somehow AMD has supplied one console manufacture with a magical GPU/CPU that wasn’t befitting to share with the other. As if the shop owner (chip supplier) is running a racket and making deals under the table.

And often customization is taken way out of context. As we now know; most of the customization is around anti-hacking mechanisms; hardware decryption etc. We found only a few GPU/CPU customizations that directly related to game performance.

 

[PSman1700]

What makes their fantasy arguments even weirder is that somehow AMD has supplied one console manufacture with a magical GPU/CPU that wasn’t befitting to share with the other. As if the shop owner (chip supplier) is running a racket and making deals under the table.

They really thought AMD did Navi just for their console, now we can laugh about it atleast

 

[Shortbread]

They really thought AMD did Navi just for their console, now we can laugh about it atleast

That. And the nonsense of 5nm 80CU 14TF console GPUs.

And yeah, it seems Lockhart may still be a thing...

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Not swapping a major component out, no. But could Microsoft could theoretically have better yields than Sony allowing them to reduce their CU reservation? Sure. The reverse is also true. And in terms of memory, I would imagine that both manufacturers have built into their core design a degree of flexibility given how RAM prices fluctuate across RAM types. PS4 4Gb -> 8Gb was straight forward using GDDR5 clamshell setup but I wouldn't bank on such a large last-minute capacity upgrade with nextgen unless their current target is already low, like 12Gb.

More than that, we still don't even know if either company has final (or near final) silicon in the dev kits they are sending out. If not, then the hardware inside of the devkits (which may be separate CPU and GPU) may or may not be representative of what the final SOC is capable of.

IIRC, devkits specs/performance for PS4 and XBO were higher than the actual SOCs which contributed to many developers having to "cut back" on what was originally revealed for some games prior to the release of those consoles.

Regards,
SB

 

[BRiT]

No final silicon for APUs as AMD won't have GPU RT until Spring 2020 at earliest according to their roadmap.

 

[Globalisateur]

More than that, we still don't even know if either company has final (or near final) silicon in the dev kits they are sending out. If not, then the hardware inside of the devkits (which may be separate CPU and GPU) may or may not be representative of what the final SOC is capable of.

IIRC, devkits specs/performance for PS4 and XBO were higher than the actual SOCs which contributed to many developers having to "cut back" on what was originally revealed for some games prior to the release of those consoles.

Regards,
SB

Source ?

 

[bitsandbytes]

No final silicon for APUs as AMD won't have GPU RT until Spring 2020 at earliest according to their roadmap.

Who knows about the finality of the APUs right now or even if the kits are using them yet but according to Kleegamefan at Resetera the game he says he's seen around E3 was said to be running on the PS5 dev kit using Navi-based hardware and it had all the RT goodies.

So AMD must have some sort of GPU with RT as far back as June if you believe him.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Source ?

If I had a source I wouldn't have used "IIRC", I would have just posted the source. At that point there would be no question about recalling something correctly.

We do know that early devkits were basically just PC's, however.

[edit]
https://www.gamespot.com/forums/sys...hat-is-inside-the-lastest-ps4-dev-k-29343809/

That also shows the PS4 devkit with a more powerful CPU than what the SOC ended up with.

Regards,
SB

 

[PSman1700]

Who knows about the finality of the APUs right now or even if the kits are using them yet but according to Kleegamefan at Resetera the game he says he's seen around E3 was said to be running on the PS5 dev kit using Navi-based hardware and it had all the RT goodies.

How can he be sure it was doing ray tracing in hardware level in that game he saw running?