Halo Infinite [Fall 2021] [XO, XBSX|S, PC, XGP]

[Silent_Buddha]

4K at 120fps is still a very large load to handle. Curious to see the thermals on this type of load.

Yes, I'd imagine it will come down to how much will be invested into looking into advanced temporal reconstruction techniques.

120 FPS allows for the possibility of much better results with temporal reconstruction than 60 FPS (adequate but still noticeable), much less 30 FPS (just plain not pleasant, IMO).

In theory you should be able to achieve similar graphics fidelity at 4k@30 with no reconstruction, 4k@60 with some reconstruction, 4k@120 with significant reconstruction with a similar performance budget.

However, your control response will increase at each step meaning that even if the end graphics IQ ends up similar in all cases, you'd end up with a more responsive game.

RT with all the accumulation buffers (perhaps not the right term) to make it look good, would benefit from higher FPS as well. The temporal artifacts would be less noticeable and their impact greatly reduced. But RT itself (at least in Turing) is so performance heavy that 120 Hz is just not feasible with current hardware.

Regards,
SB

 

[ultragpu]

I find it hilarious people seems to expect 4k/60fps, 120fps, 8k and raytracing all from a ~9tf console with enough of a graphical jump to be wowed at, this is not happening guys . I'm sorry but even with Zen 2 CPUs it still won't happen, devs would be using them for all new kinds of simulations, physics, AI, more NPCs and etc before locking down a more stable 30fps. This misconception of Zen 2 guaranteeing you 4k/60fps is absurd at best, next gen games would be way more complex for starters so the need for CPU resources would scale accordingly, hell you can't even guarantee current gen games at 4k/60fps using zen 2. It is only when you design a much less complex, resource intensive game can you hoping to achieve 60fps.
CBR and Reconstruction are here to stay, they are the only methods to get you close to a generational graphics leap since we're targeting 4k now and that's just for a 30fps game, 60fps would be even less noticeable. For the record a nicely coded reconstruction method gives you by far the best bang per Tflops used overall compared to native 4k, even the DF would have a hard time differentiating them when used well.

You can quote me on this prophecy when next gen starts

 

[Tkumpathenurpahl]

Fair points. We can't expect all of that, all at once, every time.

MS has done a decent job of integrating XBox and PC. If Halo Infinite on the PC is to be compatible with non-RT GPU's, maybe that path could be included in the Scarlet version for users willing to sacrifice RT for higher framerates/resolution?

 

[Silent_Buddha]

You can quote me on this prophecy when next gen starts

Will do. I fully expect a LOT more 60 FPS titles next gen with a small scattering of titles that have a 120 FPS option in addition to a default 60 FPS mode. For example, I wouldn't be surprised if the next gen Doom game offered a 120 FPS mode on next gen consoles. COD might offer it as well. Small possibility of the mainline Forza game offering a 120 FPS mode.

IIRC - weren't you also one of the ones that said 4k/60 would impossible on the XBO-X (after it was announced) and that noone would try to do it?

Regards,
SB

 

[ultragpu]

Will do. I fully expect a LOT more 60 FPS titles next gen with a small scattering of titles that have a 120 FPS option in addition to a default 60 FPS mode. For example, I wouldn't be surprised if the next gen Doom game offered a 120 FPS mode on next gen consoles. COD might offer it as well. Small possibility of the mainline Forza game offering a 120 FPS mode.

IIRC - weren't you also one of the ones that said 4k/60 would impossible on the XBO-X (after it was announced) and that noone would try to do it?

Regards,
SB

Maybe you should re read my post again, I never said we won't have many 4k/60fps games next gen, just not with the kind of massive graphical jump we would come to expect from a new generation. We can technically run all games at 120fps and 8k for giggles but do you honestly wanna see them looking like Quake 3 characters and levels?
The handful of 4k/60fps games on 1X look mediocre to very subpar graphically, compare them to RDR2 or any Asscreed games and you'll see why.

 

[iroboto]

Maybe you should re read my post again, I never said we won't have many 4k/60fps games next gen, just not with the kind of massive graphical jump we would come to expect from a new generation. We can technically run all games at 120fps and 8k for giggles but do you honestly wanna see them looking like Quake 3 characters and levels?
The handful of 4k/60fps games on 1X look mediocre to very subpar graphically, compare them to RDR2 or any Asscreed games and you'll see why.

I used to reduce the graphics on Q3A to sprites to ensure I didn’t miss anything and I had the best advantages in sight and frame rate.

So; if you’re telling me game developers would be willing to actually make games with great skill based gameplay again instead of being choked up with tons of story and narrative and meandering walking; I’m all for it.

Narrative games are an interesting medium that sit between video games and say watching a movie/TV show. But some of us like to play games hard and do absolutely nothing and watch a good movie. Drives me nuts when in narrative titles that when I want to play I get s cutscene I have to sit through. Or when i want to know what happens next in the story and I have to battle through time wasting garbage gameplay.

Few games get the pacing and formula right.

This is why I’m watching halo keenly. Honestly not sure which way they will go. I hope it’s the gameplay route. Narrative just won’t give a game like this any sort of legs.

 

[ultragpu]

I used to reduce the graphics on Q3A to sprites to ensure I didn’t miss anything and I had the best advantages in sight and frame rate.

So; if you’re telling me game developers would be willing to actually make games with great skill based gameplay again instead of being choked up with tons of story and narrative and meandering walking; I’m all for it.

Narrative games are an interesting medium that sit between video games and say watching a movie/TV show. But some of us like to play games hard and do absolutely nothing and watch a good movie. Drives me nuts when in narrative titles that when I want to play I get s cutscene I have to sit through. Or when i want to know what happens next in the story and I have to battle through time wasting garbage gameplay.

Few games get the pacing and formula right.

This is why I’m watching halo keenly. Honestly not sure which way they will go. I hope it’s the gameplay route. Narrative just won’t give a game like this any sort of legs.

You know ultimately one thing doesn't have to get in the way of another, why couldn't you make a skill based game with nice story? God of War is gonna open the floodgate for a new breed of skilled based narrative genre might I say.

 

[iroboto]

You know ultimately one thing doesn't have to get in the way of another, why couldn't you make a skill based game with nice story? God of War is gonna open the floodgate for a new breed of skilled based narrative genre might I say.

I would say that a major sign of a good single player game is how many times people are willing to re-run the title.

Whatever that title is for you.

For me; there are few single player titles I’ve ever run more than once. Most of them start with the words Mass Effect or are built by BioWare. FTL and some other small indies; titles like Civ etc aren’t really narrative games so those are obvious areas as well.
Others are when I was younger playing Nintendo. But lately; I’ve never gone back to replay. All the SP titles I’ve ever replayed; gameplay is the main driver. Which means it was light on story and cutscenes.

There’s just too many other better options for that type of thing. Halo has multiplayer. They will juice the single player for maximum everything ; some people like to replay with skulls and legendary; but most of us will just switch to MP.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I find it hilarious people seems to expect 4k/60fps, 120fps, 8k and raytracing all from a ~9tf console with enough of a graphical jump to be wowed at, this is not happening guys .

Ignoring graphics, Halo 5 resorted to animating NPCs at 30hz. We're seeing animation getting better and better and we know from folks on the cutting edge like Naughty Dog that animation can be quite CPU intensive so suddenly crank this up by a factor of four, along with everything else that now needs to run at 4X for 120fp is quite the expectation!

 

[iroboto]

Give you an idea of what's possible in the coming 4K/60 engines:

COD will also support RT. Just waiting to see what will be announced here.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

You know ultimately one thing doesn't have to get in the way of another, why couldn't you make a skill based game with nice story? God of War is gonna open the floodgate for a new breed of skilled based narrative genre might I say.

All games aren't for all people. God of War (2018) was fantastic, certainly. I played through it with a friend of mine. I did the boss fights and he mostly did the exploration (I did a little of it) and other fights. I have absolutely Zero desire to play it again. More games will be like it, but I doubt it'll open a floodgate.

I like story, but for some of those "games" (questionable to call some of them games), I can just get the story by watching someone else play it on Twitch or YouTube. I did this with Detroit. Zero desire to play it, but the story was somewhat interesting.

OTOH, games with fantastic gameplay, I'll sometimes play over and over. They are Billions (man this game can be brutal), for example. No interest in it, saw someone playing it. Gameplay immediately made me go out and buy it.

This is likely why I can't stand 30 FPS games. Gameplay is king, IMO. And 30 FPS is anathema to gameplay, IMO. I don't want to feel like I'm fighting the controls everytime I'm playing the game. God of War (2018) while a fantastic game was also extremely frustrating because of the unresponsive (to me) and sometimes erratic (due to frame drops) controls due to being 30 FPS with occasional dips in frame rate. Almost every second I was playing the game, I was wishing it was 60 FPS. It speaks volumes that even with that handicap, I still thought it was a fantastic game.

But that's me. For someone else, they might prefer games that are light on gameplay and more focused on story.

I think the first 3 Halo games had a nice balance between gameplay and story. What story there was, was very interesting, but they didn't spend too much time on it. Gameplay was the focus.

In many ways I hated Halo 4, because it focused too much on story. And a story that was at odds with the story presented in the first 3 games. The gameplay also took a bit of a back seat to the story, IMO. Another bad knock against the game.

I completely avoided Halo 5 because it just went more into story versus gameplay. And a story that was just plain horrible.

It's also why I love the Souls games (PC versions for the superior controls). There's a story there, but it's not in your face, and it doesn't take the place of gameplay. It's all gameplay, all the time. And if you want story, you have to go looking for it.

Regards,
SB

 

[zed]

This is likely why I can't stand 30 FPS games. Gameplay is king, IMO. And 30 FPS is anathema to gameplay, IMO. I don't want to feel like I'm fighting the controls everytime I'm playing the game. God of War (2018) while a fantastic game was also extremely frustrating because of the unresponsive (to me) and sometimes erratic (due to frame drops) controls due to being 30 FPS with occasional dips in frame rate. Almost every second I was playing the game, I was wishing it was 60 FPS. It speaks volumes that even with that handicap, I still thought it was a fantastic game.

But that's me. For someone else, they might prefer games that are light on gameplay and more focused on story.

I think the first 3 Halo games had a nice balance between gameplay and story

Um you do realize the first 3 halo games were all 30fps
edit: just had a quick look at halo 1, it even stutters along at 20fps

And when its splitscreen its even worse

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Um you do realize the first 3 halo games were all 30fps
edit: just had a quick look at halo 1, it even stutters along at 20fps

And when its splitscreen its even worse

Yes, but I was commenting on the gameplay vs. story exposition part at that point. Also, with no other options to play Halo when it came out, that was all you had to go with.

So, Halo 1-3 >>>>>> Halo 4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Halo 5.​

In terms of controls, it was the same as when I played GoW (2018), constantly wishing I could play it on a better platform with better controls.

Regards,
SB

 

[ultragpu]

All games aren't for all people. God of War (2018) was fantastic, certainly. I played through it with a friend of mine. I did the boss fights and he mostly did the exploration (I did a little of it) and other fights. I have absolutely Zero desire to play it again. More games will be like it, but I doubt it'll open a floodgate.

I like story, but for some of those "games" (questionable to call some of them games), I can just get the story by watching someone else play it on Twitch or YouTube. I did this with Detroit. Zero desire to play it, but the story was somewhat interesting.

OTOH, games with fantastic gameplay, I'll sometimes play over and over. They are Billions (man this game can be brutal), for example. No interest in it, saw someone playing it. Gameplay immediately made me go out and buy it.

This is likely why I can't stand 30 FPS games. Gameplay is king, IMO. And 30 FPS is anathema to gameplay, IMO. I don't want to feel like I'm fighting the controls everytime I'm playing the game. God of War (2018) while a fantastic game was also extremely frustrating because of the unresponsive (to me) and sometimes erratic (due to frame drops) controls due to being 30 FPS with occasional dips in frame rate. Almost every second I was playing the game, I was wishing it was 60 FPS. It speaks volumes that even with that handicap, I still thought it was a fantastic game.

But that's me. For someone else, they might prefer games that are light on gameplay and more focused on story.

I think the first 3 Halo games had a nice balance between gameplay and story. What story there was, was very interesting, but they didn't spend too much time on it. Gameplay was the focus.

In many ways I hated Halo 4, because it focused too much on story. And a story that was at odds with the story presented in the first 3 games. The gameplay also took a bit of a back seat to the story, IMO. Another bad knock against the game.

I completely avoided Halo 5 because it just went more into story versus gameplay. And a story that was just plain horrible.

It's also why I love the Souls games (PC versions for the superior controls). There's a story there, but it's not in your face, and it doesn't take the place of gameplay. It's all gameplay, all the time. And if you want story, you have to go looking for it.

Regards,
SB

I'm sure we all have preferences and whatever features that stimulate our enjoyment of the game . While I firmly believe focusing on visuals, narrative and 30fps are still the bread and butter for next gen, I'm certain devs will standardize the option for modes (Framerate, Res, Raytracing). It's worked out well since this midgen refresh and will work well next gen. Personally I think Halo could benefit from an excellent story and graphics just as well as from other things.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

OK, so some of you may already know this but some (like me) may not. Looks like the release date is confirmed for Holiday 2020 for XBO, PC, and Project Scarlett.

Also it starts some time after Halo 5's conclusion. All of the people (me included) that was hoping Halo 4 and 5 would just end up being a bad dream...doesn't look like it's going to happen. It was unlikely anyway, but we can always dream right?

LAN will be supported as will 4 player split screen. 4 player split screen makes so much sense considering it looks like the average TV size (at least in the US) has now moved into the 55-65" range.

Also, anyone who gets SR 152 in Halo 5 will get a special thing in Halo Infinite. Does anyone actually like Halo 5 that much?

Also considering that Halo: Infinite is basically a launch title for Project Scarlett, I totally would not be surprised to see Project Scarlett be named Xbox Infinite. Alternatively a special edition Xbox Infinite with Halo: Infinite themed console and controls (I really liked my Halo: Reach X360-S controller and console design).

Regards,
SB

 

[iroboto]

Also, anyone who gets SR 152 in Halo 5 will get a special thing in Halo Infinite. Does anyone actually like Halo 5 that much?

Yes, lol, for some people it's currently the best arena experience you can get that is fair and entirely about skill and team based play. The population for H5 isn't super massive, but people still play it hard.

 

[Nisaaru]

If they can right the ship WRT Halo, I'll give them a pass. But I'm still skeptical that they finally understand what Halo is and what Halo gamers want. However, it "seems" like they might have a clue now.

Well, I don't think creating a satisfying fresh Halo experience is a trivial thing anymore. Too much has happened game mechanics wise since its prime days. Personally I believe they need to go back to the scratchboard and just think about the original title in terms of atmosphere and sense of wonder than doing evolutionary changes to the ancient gameplay/mechanics paradigm. *If* they do that they will surely alienate part of its fanbase which expects a certain 20 year old gameplay, slightly tweaked. Maybe splitting Halo into campaign/MMO and multiplayer titles could mitigate this problem. Dropping that whole soap opera plot lines since Halo4 is a must too.

P.S. I loved Halo1-3/Odst. Reach lacked focus somehow. *LOATHED* Halo4. Halo5 I only played through during a Destiny low time and I just went through the motion than really caring. I only care for the campaign.

 

[orangpelupa]

They could do what bungie did with Destiny.

Its halo roots are clear, but it feels fresh.

 

[Nisaaru]

But that's the crux. Would it be accepted by Halo fans as a Halo game when it feels completely different?

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Well, I don't think creating a satisfying fresh Halo experience is a trivial thing anymore. Too much has happened game mechanics wise since its prime days. Personally I believe they need to go back to the scratchboard and just think about the original title in terms of atmosphere and sense of wonder than doing evolutionary changes to the ancient gameplay/mechanics paradigm. *If* they do that they will surely alienate part of its fanbase which expects a certain 20 year old gameplay, slightly tweaked. Maybe splitting Halo into campaign/MMO and multiplayer titles could mitigate this problem. Dropping that whole soap opera plot lines since Halo4 is a must too.

P.S. I loved Halo1-3/Odst. Reach lacked focus somehow. *LOATHED* Halo4. Halo5 I only played through during a Destiny low time and I just went through the motion than really caring. I only care for the campaign.

That's exactly what they did with Halo 4 and 5. Tried to deviate from what Halo 1-3, ODST, and Reach did...and Halo players generally hated it. Halo players wanted something closer to Halo 1-3, ODST and Reach in terms of both gameplay and storytelling. ESPECIALLY WRT the story.

Hell, even the suit designs in Halo 4 and 5 were generally horrible.

Regards,
SB