Sony Playstation Marketing: a quiet place in days gone?

[Metal_Spirit]

The graph would be overly confusing if it contained in game spend which is option and mixed it with subscriber fees (no optional) and grouped them together as being subscriber revenue. Not saying it couldn’t be that graph, but I can’t see it painting the picture currently.

1.365 million users may or may not be low. Unfortunately without target numbers I do not know. I think it’s pretty successful. They drummed up 600M in revenue with a single initiative annually if we assume they don’t net any more subscribers.

Even accepting your number is correct, i cannot judge the service success. The question is: Who is most interested in a service like this? Those that spend a lot, or those that spend little?
The savings are for those that spend a lot, because those that spend little will have its reasons for that, either lack of time for playing, or just lack of money to spend on gaming.
So, the service may be having big incomes. But the real question is: Compared to when they were out of the service, they are spending more or less?
The study says that on average subscribers spend a lot more than non subscribers. But that seems to be a “La Palice” truth. Since those more atracted to this service are exactly those that spend more, and can save on game costs, reduce the population size from 42 million to 1.365 million and you get an average spending increase.
Those 600 million, if calculated right are just a shift of income from the tradicional market to Gamepass. But the question remaining is. Without game pass those persons would bring more, the same, or less income?
Were we talking about a service without day one game releases, like PSNow, I would not have this doubt about profitability. But here, where the service canibalizes games sales, my doubts stay.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It's more like digital vs physical. It's a third model. They don't care how you choose to play your games. There's no reason to publicize one more than the others. I think that's what they're going for next gen. How you pay is different but since it's a service model who cares? Continue to pay if you like it, stop paying if you don't. Just like psplus. They don't have to convince anyone about how to consume their games, just making the options available.

I see a huge difference with MS who present their services as one-and-the-same, presenting this image of a future of all your games on any device with a choice of ways to pay. You can buy a game, then stream it on mobile, or buy into their subscription service. It feels like a vision.

In stark contrast, Sony added native game downloads to their subscription service so you no longer had to stream and barely told anyone. They've a cloud service they don't like to talk about. They are doing the same things as MS, only first, yet MS makes it sound like a cool future whereas Sony seem a little ashamed!

MS has a problem with exclusives this generation, but atleast they are signaling they are improving upon this.

Although if they only improve to the point Sony are, which is likely, then they aren't better. The difference then is that Ms is seen to be growing, whereas Sony hasn't. But then maybe Sony as is 'big' as they can be and there's not really anything realistic they can do?

 

[Picao84]

In the end Sony might just have went for Game Streaming as a precaution for the future. Get their hands "dirty" so if they need to act they have some experience already. They might never have planned to push it strongly from the offset.

I know that's something I would do. I develop mobile apps on my spare time and not all of them have brought in significant income or I did expect it. It was just a way to get some experience with things like Azure or Firebase. Generate knowledge and expertise for future application.

 

[goonergaz]

The same reason why MS gained from promoting Xbox when they had nothing to promote.
To assure their customer base of their commitment to the service. How many articles did I have to read and rumours about MS dropping or selling xbox, especially after the disaster of XBO launch... and since Scorpio we've never heard of such discussion.

Had they stayed silent all the time, perhaps more people thought that was going to happen, and would have left even earlier for Sony.

Not really, MS had to make noises because they were a sinking ship with people jumping overboard. Now the caption has said ‘it’s ok, we steadied the ship and will make it even stronger. Sony were sailing nicely providing the service expected so there’s no need to say much.

Although if they only improve to the point Sony are, which is likely, then they aren't better. The difference then is that Ms is seen to be growing, whereas Sony hasn't. But then maybe Sony as is 'big' as they can be and there's not really anything realistic they can do?

It takes more than money to make decent games, it takes years of nurturing which Sony has done, allowing devs freedom MS would not. Sony have the talent and whilst they have closed devs they have also expanded successful ones. Better to have a bird in the hand than 2 in the bush as they say.

 

[iroboto]

Not really, MS had to make noises because they were a sinking ship with people jumping overboard. Now the caption has said ‘it’s ok, we steadied the ship and will make it even stronger. Sony were sailing nicely providing the service expected so there’s no need to say much.



It takes more than money to make decent games, it takes years of nurturing which Sony has done, allowing devs freedom MS would not. Sony have the talent and whilst they have closed devs they have also expanded successful ones. Better to have a bird in the hand than 2 in the bush as they say.

Sure. But it’s a prime example of the benefits of being in control of your own narrative.

I think for the most part being in control and constantly controlling the narrative for your business usually results positively and not negatively.

We see there are a great deal of many times even if there are narratives they are too positive, we see companies step in and communicate to lower expectations.

All in all, the idea is to stay connected. When you go quiet you let others write the narrative and I rarely see that turn out positive.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Yep. That's what PR is really about, though we think of it as a dirty job. It's supposed to be maintaining a positive image, so saying and doing things that promotes a strong image. Doing nothing is never good PR. Screwing up is of course, worse PR, but saying and doing nothing when you're on top is still bad PR.

Or rather, there's business performance and business image, and the two don't necessarily have to be related. Lousy companies with good PR can turn themselves around, and good companies with bad PR can disappear (to lousy companies with great PR that convince the masses they're better and steal all the custom).

 

[bgroovy]

PS Now has launched in the US in 2014 and other territories in 2015. These are tiny steps and too slow. Sony also discontinued PS Now on multiple other platforms. The service still hasn't evolved much if at all.

They've added PS4 games, added support for downloading games, they add new games to the service each month, they just rolled out access to more countries, there was just a promotion where you could get a 12/mo sub from Amazon for $60, there are over 800 games on the service now, more than 275 can be downloaded. The downloadable games alone outnumber the entire Game Pass library from their competitor.

Then again why can I not stream my own Playstation 4 on a non-Xperia Android?

Ask Google.

That's like playing a boardgame and only 1 player has points on the board, but not much of a hand because they've been working elsewhere. While the two other players are gathering resources like mofos for the last few turns and when they're ready they're going to drop 50+ pts over the next 2 rounds.

This happens all the time... they certainly aren't ahead of their competition if they aren't innovating new features on PSNow. All they've done is purchased a streaming service and are keeping the lights running.

So, you're assuming PS5 won't have a major streaming component? Sony is the only player who has been scoring in the early game AND planning for the coup de grace.

I think it started with cross platform gaming, censorship, PSN+ not being that interesting as it was, BC and PS2 emulator. No E3 etc showing, state of play being that dislikes that sony has to re-upload it. There's also people wanting more new IP's rather then successors. We don't really hear that much from Sony if they are improving on things, its too silent.

Cross-play? A marketing term literally invented by Sony? Censorship? Of sexualized characters that appear under age..? PS Plus just being (checks note), still the best deal in gaming. No more PS2 games? After all the releases they did didn't sell well enough to justify the effort. No E3 showing? Like half the industry who hate how the last few years went? Not enough new IPs? Like Days Gone, Dreams, Ghosts of Tsushima, Death Stranding, Concrete Genie, and a flood of exclusive VR titles? Their remaining slate for this generation is MOSTLY new IPs. Meanwhile Microsoft, who's "making all the right moves" is letting things peter out with Gears 5 and another Halo... So silence, much disrespect to gamers.

 

[BRiT]

So why doesnt Sony successfully market any of that?

 

[iroboto]

So, you're assuming PS5 won't have a major streaming component? Sony is the only player who has been scoring in the early game AND planning for the coup de grace.

I have to make that assumption. It’s the only available information I have because nothing has been said in response to Stadia or XCloud. Deploying solutions and delivering products isn’t like playing poker where companies try to bluff their competitors.

The game is simple. There is money on the table. If you don’t get it someone else will.

I’m trying to be realistic to my intuition. Should I assume by the time PS5 launches we’re going to see all titles streaming to all mobile devices on PS5? And all the lastest exclusives streaming on some sort of pass day 1? And they are still going to have all the best games ? Full support for BC for PS4? Push the VR front to new frontiers and support some form of ray tracing as well? Push out a monster console for $399?

Somehow in a matter of 1 big announcement next year it’s going catch and exceed all the platforms and services announced by their competitors?

Every company has to pick their battles. There’s a limit how far any company can stretch behind the scenes. Sony isn’t the FBI nor do they have the level of security of Apple.

We should be able to see some evidence of the stretch showing up in their statements. I’ve seen the re-organization of their funds. But I haven’t seen much else. Just because they are quiet doesn’t mean that they have an answer and are quietly ticking away at it.

Last I recall, TLG comms went quiet. It was actually shelved. If that is an indication of Sony communications then precedent has been set. It arriving a whole generation later isn’t quite the same as aiming for leadership.

As for MS. The topic is about communications. They’ve made moves to fill a big hole in their 1P studio lineup. We don’t know if any titles, and at the earliest we can expect output in 3-4 years. But at least we know it’s coming and should arrive by next gen.

Yes they will rely on Gears and Halo for now. But the people know that more is coming. Xbox fans may be upset that is all that is coming. But they aren’t conplaining about the lack of communication.

 

[PSman1700]

Cross-play? A marketing term literally invented by Sony? Censorship? Of sexualized characters that appear under age..? PS Plus just being (checks note), still the best deal in gaming. No more PS2 games? After all the releases they did didn't sell well enough to justify the effort. No E3 showing? Like half the industry who hate how the last few years went? Not enough new IPs? Like Days Gone, Dreams, Ghosts of Tsushima, Death Stranding, Concrete Genie, and a flood of exclusive VR titles? Their remaining slate for this generation is MOSTLY new IPs. Meanwhile Microsoft, who's "making all the right moves" is letting things peter out with Gears 5 and another Halo... So silence, much disrespect to gamers.

Yes Cross-play, it took awhile for Sony to correct things with Fornite. Censorship is very much disliked how Sony handled that regarding DMC5, it doesn't really mean much good for the future. Regarding PSN+
http://www.egmnow.com/articles/news/is-it-even-worth-subscribing-to-playstation-plus-anymore/

I see many topics on forums where people think the free games Sony releases for PSN+ are 'meh' nowadays.
Both MS and Nintendo appearing on E3 but not Sony, well that doesn't really land well by most. State of Play didn't impress (yet), it was a let-down for most.
Of the about 20 big AAA titles sony gave us with the PS4 gen, thats over 7 years, not really many. If Sony's biggest 'advantage' over its competitors is those AAA titles, well. MS will improve upon this, we will see in the future where things go.
Don't forget that most people dont care about those AAA titles, most buy a playstation cause of brand loyality. Just having AAA exclusives isn't enough in my opinion. I hope Sony/PlayStation will grow to something more then those about 10 exclusives that really interest over a 8 year-span.

Yes they will rely on Gears and Halo for now. But the people know that more is coming. Xbox fans may be upset that is all that is coming. But they aren’t conplaining about the lack of communication.

Microsoft Xbox has a disadvantage over Sony's PS. Its the exclusives, they are signaling they will be improving upon this. I think their E3 was very impressive, so was the Halo Infinite trailer. The newly acquired studio's could very well pump out some nice titles. MS also shares its library with the PC for the most, if that means anything.

Anyway's, competition is only good, can't hurt us. On a side-note, i think in general Sony did very well with its PS4, interesting and nice-looking exclusives and a great start.

 

[bgroovy]

So why doesnt Sony successfully market any of that?

They do. I see ads on Facebook constantly. They promote it on the PS blog. They have a weekly podcast where it gets plugged.

I have to make that assumption. It’s the only available information I have because nothing has been said in response to Stadia or XCloud. Deploying solutions and delivering products isn’t like playing poker where companies try to bluff their competitors.

What do they need to say? They have been running a service that provides basically all the benefits those services will provide "in theory". PS Now is the only one of the three with the confidence to tell you a price. And if you think Sony is at a huge disadvantage I have to wonder if you were actually paying attention to the reaction to Google's presentation, which went over like a wet fart in the press and social media.

Yes they will rely on Gears and Halo for now. But the people know that more is coming. Xbox fans may be upset that is all that is coming. But they aren’t conplaining about the lack of communication.

What was the last exclusive first party game MS announced? Because Sony announced two just last week. I don't care how many times Phil Spencer says "trust me", I don't count that as good "communication".

Don't forget that most people dont care about those AAA titles, most buy a playstation cause of brand loyality. Just having AAA exclusives isn't enough in my opinion. I hope Sony/PlayStation will grow to something more then those about 10 exclusives that really interest over a 8 year-span.

What they hell are you talking about? What are people buying consoles for? They have the most games of any current gen console, period. They have the most active first party, period. They are the only one with a streaming service. The first one with a subscription game library service. They invented remote play. They invented share play. They invented the share button and system level integration with social media. Why do you think the Playstation continues to outsell the Xbox 3:1?

 

[MrFox]

I see a huge difference with MS who present their services as one-and-the-same, presenting this image of a future of all your games on any device with a choice of ways to pay. You can buy a game, then stream it on mobile, or buy into their subscription service. It feels like a vision.

In stark contrast, Sony added native game downloads to their subscription service so you no longer had to stream and barely told anyone. They've a cloud service they don't like to talk about. They are doing the same things as MS, only first, yet MS makes it sound like a cool future whereas Sony seem a little ashamed!

I agree they are going way too far in underpromising to be seen as overdelivering, but it's in massive contrast against kutaragi overselling all the time. The Cerny/Yoshida surprisingly candid interview was expressing this very well.

But with the opposite, the future being forced down gamers throats is not going to end well. It didn't with online drm. The gamers will decide what they prefer. The vision of pure gaas is already being sneered at in gaf and era polls by 90% to 10%. It's being seen as a value added feature and not a replacement. They need to be careful overselling this.

Sony's subdued strategy at the end of the generation seems to be calculated. The proof is in the pudding. See sales impact.

Maybe you bought into xb1x having the best wireless high end VR, or xb1 givig 3 times more power from the cloud, or dazzled being shown an impossible occluding AR with minecraft, or the fake kinect choregraphies. This is the microsoft PR since 2013 and it works for some people. Sony is going in a different direction and they need to keep those 100 million customers happy, they need to respect them more than they need to gamble gaining a bigger slice of the gaming population. PR is not seen in a positive light in this context. (arrogant sony!)

We don't know if streaming latency will ever be acceptable for every gamer. Calling it the future is putting the cart before the horse, and it would be alienating hard core gamers who don't give a shit about streaming games.

 

[Xbat]

Don't forget that most people dont care about those AAA titles, most buy a playstation cause of brand loyality. Just having AAA exclusives isn't enough in my opinion

What? How do you think they build brand loyalty? Of course exclusives effect sales. Why do you think Netflix is pumping billions into creating original content?

They do. I see ads on Facebook constantly. They promote it on the PS blog. They have a weekly podcast where it gets plugged.

Exactly. It's like I've come from another dimension or something people going on about no marketing. Of course they not going to make as much noise as the companies who have just announced a new product.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I have to make that assumption. It’s the only available information I have because nothing has been said in response to Stadia or XCloud.

You could chose not to assume anything. PS5 is an unannounced product, therefore streaming has neither been confirmed nor denied. I look at the facts; Sony spent a pile on Gaikai and PSNow has only been expanded got better. To what end, to just drop streaming in PS5 when others are beginning to offer such implementations? In what crazy world does that make sense?

 

[temesgen]

Each individual added value feature can be seen as "it's not the number one reason to buy it for most people, but it reaches an additional demographic"

Judging from interviews at launch, Sony was clearly focussed on the primary reason gamers would choose a playstation, and only then added psvr and psnow to grow what they already had in the bag. They delivered, and continue to deliver, on first party games, on streaming, and on VR. There's room for improvement but they have been practically unchallenged on all three.

What should they do to grow even more next gen without alienating their hard earned existing base?

UHD bluray
More power
More games
Expand psvue channels
Upgrade psnow hardware
New 4k psvr
Improve the DS4, maybe add a screen

Bring beinsports back to Vue, beyond that vue is my favorite streaming tv service by large margin.
Do more with movie and music
Address bc
Improve quality of remote play
VR within 12 months for PS5
Develope some new IPs/shelve older IPs for a couple years
Work on psn user interface, too many steps to send friend request during gaming in Destiny for example

 

[Nesh]

They've added PS4 games, added support for downloading games, they add new games to the service each month,

This is basic

they just rolled out access to more countries

Launched in 2015. Countries where PSN is available currently:
Austria, Belgium, Canada, France, Germany, Ireland, Japan, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Switzerland, United States, United Kingdom, Spain, Italy, Portugal, Norway, Denmark, Finland, and Sweden

Launched in 2017. Countries where Game Pass is available:
Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Colombia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hong Kong, Hungary, India, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Korea, Mexico, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Slovakia, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Taiwan, Turkey, United Arab Emirates, UK and the USA

there was just a promotion where you could get a 12/mo sub from Amazon for $60,

You can get promotions for XBOX as well in Amazon.

there are over 800 games on the service now, more than 275 can be downloaded. The downloadable games alone outnumber the entire Game Pass library from their competitor.

MS offers the ability to download every game pass title locally and play significantly enhanced versions of previous gen titles. PS3 titles are not enjoying any enhancements, PS2 titles see some minor enancements. Everyone with broadband internet can play every game released. No player is restricted due to connection limitations.
PSN misses a lot of currently released games and a lot of AAA PS exclusive games including old ones. It is a service that begun in 2015.
Gamepass started in 2017 and first party games see simultaneous release in both game pass, digital store and retail.
MS is more successful in making their Gamepass known in the community. Gamepass releases are mentioned in gaming news websites. Gaming news sites for whatever reasons ommit PS Now monthly releases.
Searching Eurogamer's and IGN's google results for PS Now monthly additions gives various generic news but nothing on monthly additions. Searching for Gamepass gives monthly results of every game addition.
PSN release news are isolated mostly in Sony's own portals.

Ask Google.

No satisfactory answer provided. Most likely its just to sell XPERIA products.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

This is basic

Launched in 2015. Countries where PSN is available currently:
Austria, Belgium, Canada, France, Germany, Ireland, Japan, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Switzerland, United States, United Kingdom, Spain, Italy, Portugal, Norway, Denmark, Finland, and Sweden

Launched in 2017. Countries where Game Pass is available:
Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Colombia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hong Kong, Hungary, India, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Korea, Mexico, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Slovakia, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Taiwan, Turkey, United Arab Emirates, UK and the USA

You can get promotions for XBOX as well in Amazon.

That's not like for like though. PSNow started as a cloud service and is operated as a cloud service, just with the option to download games as well. Game Pass is a subscription service, and XCloud is the cloud service. If Sony wanted to do a subscription service like Game Pass, they could.

You shouldn't really compare the two.

 

[Nesh]

That's not like for like though. PSNow started as a cloud service and is operated as a cloud service, just with the option to download games as well. Game Pass is a subscription service, and XCloud is the cloud service. If Sony wanted to do a subscription service like Game Pass, they could.

You shouldn't really compare the two.

PS Now operates as a subscription service now too, relying on cloud to stream PS3 games and download PS4 games on PS4, and as a pure cloud subscription service on PC.
The monthly rentals were removed (thank God because the pricing model was unattractive).

edit: I agree they are not entirely like for like, but the user does not care about the technical site of the service. They are competitive subscription services that offer the same basic function.
Many AAA games are missing, communication lacks behind, many countries dont have access, PS2 games have minimum enhancements (they are also downloadable).

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The user doesn't care about the technical side, but the businesses are operating them as different things. PSNow is not a true subscription service as Sony have decided to tie it to the cloud offerings. Putting it another way, when you subscribe to PSNow, you have access to a PS3 library. That PS3 library is only available in a handful of countries. Sony couldn't offer PSNow in other countries without those countries missing out on the PS3 library of titles, which Sony don't want to do.

MS has created a subscription service, which is independent of the cloud service. And indeed, you'll (presumably) have to pay for the two of them if you want Game Pass games streamed.

There are plenty of things Sony is weak on, but PSNow should not be compared to Game Pass and other subscription services and should be compared to cloud services, for which it's leaps and bounds ahead at the moment, the others having not even launched!

 

[Nesh]

The user doesn't care about the technical side, but the businesses are operating them as different things. PSNow is not a true subscription service as Sony have decided to tie it to the cloud offerings. Putting it another way, when you subscribe to PSNow, you have access to a PS3 library. That PS3 library is only available in a handful of countries. Sony couldn't offer PSNow in other countries without those countries missing out on the PS3 library of titles, which Sony don't want to do.

MS has created a subscription service, which is independent of the cloud service. And indeed, you'll (presumably) have to pay for the two of them if you want Game Pass games streamed.

There are plenty of things Sony is weak on, but PSNow should not be compared to Game Pass and other subscription services and should be compared to cloud services, for which it's leaps and bounds ahead at the moment, the others having not even launched!

I accept your points. Lets ignore Game Pass then. I wasn't going to make the comparison until bgroovy made it.
Do you agree that the communication has not effectively spread beyond Sony's own portals and it is missing a lot of important titles?