ID buffer and DR FP16

[iroboto]

It is those "technicalities" that make these features a waste. In the case of Direct X 12 you know it is here to stay and eventually will be used. For Pro? Things are a little more shaky. The feature support matters more now. In a few years it will matter more for PS5

I think Sebbbi said t best that if you cannot guarantee you can deliver it, you will not put it in the scope of the game. So often many companies have research teams that do this so that their next titles can include these technologies.

It's only been 1-2 years with Pro, asking companies to deliver on this, is asking a lot. A game company would have had to completed their research have no issues with it and begin starting a new game.

Existing games are unlikely to be able to implement this right in. A few can sure, but not all.

If the feature is worth keeping you will see it in future iterations.

Look at the XBO command processor customizations, they continued to iterate on that for Scorpio, and I imagine they will continue further development on this for the next console.

 

[npoe]

Look at the XBO command processor customizations, they continued to iterate on that for Scorpio, and I imagine they will continue further development on this for the next console.

What is the estimated impact of the command processor for Xbox One? It does sounds cool but I have no idea of the impact, even a guess would be welcome.

Hopefully when Scorpio comes out someone would make a rough comparison of RX Vega vs Scorpio and give us an idea of the real impact of the optimizations (removal of bottlenecks) done at GPU level for Scorpio. I'm curious of the results of Microsoft's bet since Sony bet was to add more capabilities to the GPU.

 

[iroboto]

What is the estimated impact of the command processor for Xbox One? It does sounds cool but I have no idea of the impact, even a guess would be welcome.

Hopefully when Scorpio comes out someone would make a rough comparison of RX Vega vs Scorpio and give us an idea of the real impact of the optimizations (removal of bottlenecks) done at GPU level for Scorpio. I'm curious of the results of Microsoft's bet since Sony bet was to add more capabilities to the GPU.

Unfortunately, we have little information aside from MS' word on CPU load reduction. They've currently explained that they've built DX12 natively into the command processor. My understanding is that the usual case for games goes from (in terms of abstractions)
**CPU Side || GPU Side
**game code -> **engine code -> **api call -> **driver call -> || Command Processor

With their customizations...maybe?
**game code -> **engine code -> **api call -> Command Processor

Looking at how much CPU overhead is involved with driver calls, I suppose this could be a big benefit.

 

[Allandor]

What is the estimated impact of the command processor for Xbox One? It does sounds cool but I have no idea of the impact, even a guess would be welcome.

Hopefully when Scorpio comes out someone would make a rough comparison of RX Vega vs Scorpio and give us an idea of the real impact of the optimizations (removal of bottlenecks) done at GPU level for Scorpio. I'm curious of the results of Microsoft's bet since Sony bet was to add more capabilities to the GPU.

That's a good question. As far as I know the command processor has been customized to get some load from the cpu. But the load on the cpu seems to be still higher than on the ps4. Only some games seem to run a bit faster in cpu-limited scenes. On the other hand, this is something only DX12 specific as they stated in that interview before xb1 launch. So maybe it is just rarely used in xb1 games or it just makes no big difference at all.
But with xb1x they had better data to work with. Now they know how the games actually work so the new customizations may bring more on the table, now.

 

[Recop]

Non native 4k on both consoles :

I see slightly more artifacts on foliage on X but it's just a demo.

Also, we need to see a comparison in motion.

 

[MrFox]

Higher saturation on pro, either the game is tuned differently or it'so some image conversion issue.

I never understood why some third party games have this sort of small differences in contrast, gamma or color. The output is digital, and the underlying shader math should be the same?

 

[Globalisateur]

Image is sharper on Pro:

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I see slightly more artifacts on foliage on X but it's just a demo.

Not seeing that myself. More artefacts on PS4 if anything.

 

[Nesh]

I barely see much difference. But is the X version running in higher framerate in this mode?

 

[Allandor]

Image is sharper on Pro:

Well there is something really odd with those pictures. Look at the light-source at the top. It's much brighter on the pro shot. The light on the xb1x shot looks really like some light-sources are missing, it's darker. Look over the tree behind the "lift"
Also the pro-picture looks like it had been resharpend.

 

[djskribbles]

I barely see much difference. But is the X version running in higher framerate in this mode?

No, it's the 4K CBR 30fps enriched mode.

XBX has:
4K native 30fps (current build is unstable)
4K CBR 30fps enriched
1080p high framerate

PS4P has:
4K CBR 30fps
1080p 30fps enriched
1080p high framerate

I believe the shots being compared are the PS4P's 4K CBR mode with the XBX's 4K CBR enriched mode.

 

[Recop]

Not seeing that myself. More artefacts on PS4 if anything.View attachment 2224

Just look at the foliage that are above of lara's head (for example). There are clearly more artifacts on distant foliage on X, but it's a slight difference.

 

[Nesh]

No, it's the 4K CBR 30fps enriched mode.

XBX has:
4K native 30fps (current build is unstable)
4K CBR 30fps enriched
1080p high framerate

PS4P has:
4K CBR 30fps
1080p 30fps enriched
1080p high framerate

I believe the shots being compared are the PS4P's 4K CBR mode with the XBX's 4K CBR enriched mode.

They look surprisingly close in detail. Strange if thats the enriched mode

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Just look at the foliage that are above of lara's head (for example). There are clearly more artifacts on distant foliage on X, but it's a slight difference.

Huh? PS4P has more artefacts (dithering). XB1X has a different resolve, resulting in a softer image with less artefacts. You can actually see 2-pixel wide 'pixels' on XB1X, versus PS4P's extremely evident checkerboarding. But the artefacts on the steps in the image posted earlier are special! No idea where they're coming from.

 

[Recop]

Huh? PS4P has more artefacts (dithering). XB1X has a different resolve, resulting in a softer image with less artefacts. You can actually see 2-pixel wide 'pixels' on XB1X, versus PS4P's extremely evident checkerboarding.

We don't see the same thing then. I see a more pixelated foliage on X.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Before we jump into that, a curious anomaly has popped up in our most recent captures of both Rise of the Tomb Raider and Forza Motorsport 7 - a colour-shift that seems to desaturate the footage a touch. Interestingly, the other games we grabbed at the recent Microsoft showcase event that do not support HDR (Killer Instinct, Quantum Break) do not exhibit the issue, possibly suggesting a firmware tone-mapping bug in the preview Xbox One X units. We've alerted Microsoft to the issue, but in the meantime, remember that everything tested here is pre-production software running on production hardware hosting a non-final operating system.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...e-of-the-tomb-raider-full-xbox-one-x-analysis

 

[Globalisateur]

Not seeing that myself. More artefacts on PS4 if anything.View attachment 2224

Well everything is generally a bit more blurry on XBX, except for some textures that are on the foreground (maybe those 4K textures ?). For instance the rock under Lara look higher res on XBX. But generally everything is more sharper on Pro. There might be a bit more artefacts on Pro, but also more details on some vegetation.

 

[function]

Huh? PS4P has more artefacts (dithering). XB1X has a different resolve, resulting in a softer image with less artefacts. You can actually see 2-pixel wide 'pixels' on XB1X, versus PS4P's extremely evident checkerboarding. But the artefacts on the steps in the image posted earlier are special! No idea where they're coming from.

View attachment 2226

Yep.

X1X is displaying massively less dithering but it's resulting in parts of the image being softer.

The sawtooth effect on the edge of some geometry (like the wooden beams) on the PS4 Pro can be pretty nasty, it'd be understandable if they'd want to tackle that.

We don't see the same thing then. I see a more pixelated foliage on X.

You're seeing the same thing, just using different language. The appearance of more "pixelated" foliage is because they're using less dithering on what is basically the same foliage at the same resolution.

Same thing, displayed differently. Which you prefer may come down to how irritating you find regular artefact patterns (e.g. sawtooth edges and screen door transparencies) vs more readily apparent pixelation. (Or which console manufacturer you are sworn to! )

 

[Shifty Geezer]

We don't see the same thing then. I see a more pixelated foliage on X.

The pixelation is an artefact. The dithering is an artefact. Quantifying one has having more artefacts isn't realistic.

Well everything is generally a bit more blurry on XBX, except for some textures that are on the foreground (maybe those 4K textures ?). For instance the rock under Lara look higher res on XBX. But generally everything is more sharper on Pro. There might be a bit more artefacts on Pro, but also more details on some vegetation.

As I say, there's clearly a different resolve in effect. XB1X is eliminating the checkering and saw-toothing, as function points out, artefacts using a fairly simple resolve that produces a softer (averaged) overall look and more doubled-up pixels. Picking either as better or worse is picking at straws for no purpose. Certainly the ID buffer is doing nothing for PS4P here - it's awash with checkerboarding artefacts and doesn't hold a candle to some of the superior reconstruction techniques other games are using.

 

[mpg1]

The image of the long rope on the left looks cleaner on X1X but the log it's tied to looks cleaner on PS4 Pro.