WTF is a Generation? *PissOff from Scorpio Thread*

Sorry I believe I misunderstood your post.
MS is going to present it as a clean slate, which will be backwards compatible/share all games with Xbox One. Even if it has a Jaguar as a CPU. Is that in line with what you meant?
something along those lines yes. if you mean that Xbox One gamers would like to play 4K games and VR games, thus Scorpio is just a more capable Xbox One you might have a point, but that would be like aiming at a small section of the market. I think Scorpio is going to be backwards compatible and Xbox One forwards compatible.

possible designs..do we have a winner?

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Average people spend far more time on these mock console designs than the actual companies do.

"You know what fits well into an A/V cabinet?"

"A rectangle?"

"Let's make it a rectangle!"

THIS.

Some of those designs are just awful. Made by kids who know nothing about what is being made to look good in a living room. But I'll admit I'm impressed by the quality of the renders, though.
 
That works when all things are equal and AMD and Nvidia floating point operations are not equal and flops/cycle are not equal. This is as dumb as the people who tried to compare Motorola and Intel CPUs based on clock speed.
So back in the day you said that a Motorola MHz isn't the same as an Intel MHz? That a 30 MHz Motorola is clocked faster than a 30 MHz Intel??

This isn't about comparing the platforms as being able to do equal work with the same amount of resources. It's about clarifying what a FLOP is, what that number means when comparing GPUs, and how to best communicate that.

Two cameras described as 8 megapixels - we don't say Nikor megapixels != Canon megapixels; we say they have the same megapixel count but resolving power, contrast, and image quality can be different, such that one can produce a better result with the same objective measure of one aspect.

Two cars reported as 400 BHP - we don't say Ford horsepower != Lotus horsepower; we say the Lotus better uses it than the Mustang, such that one can produce a better result with the same objective measure of one aspect.

Two pianos with 88 keys - we don't say a Bechstein keys != Baldwin; we say both have the same keys and notes but the Bechstein executes far better, enabling superior playing and producing a nicer sound, such that one can produce a better result with the same objective measure of one aspect.

Two GPUs with 1024 4-wide SIMD ALUs clocked at 1 GHz - for some reason we say the same calculated 1024 x 4 x 1 Giga, 4 teraflops, is not the same. Unless AMD teraflop numbers are literally counting something different to nVidia ones, a FLOP is a FLOP is a FLOP just as a pixel is a pixel and a Hz is a Hz and a BHP is a BHP.
 
Sorry I believe I misunderstood your post.
MS is going to present it as a clean slate, which will be backwards compatible/share all games with Xbox One. Even if it has a Jaguar as a CPU. Is that in line with what you meant?
PS4 Pro was not a new launch of a console, but Scorpio is planned to be a complete new console launch. MS doesnt build on XBOX One. They are staring anew
 
PS4 Pro was not a new launch of a console, but Scorpio is planned to be a complete new console launch. MS doesnt build on XBOX One. They are staring anew
In that case a new CPU would have helped (world complexity in the future instead of needing to upgrade to yet another console)
 
could you consider Dreamcast vs Xbox as being different gens? what about Xbox and Wii?

You could make a case for the dreamcast. It was released in 1998 in japan while the xbox released in 2001. Not only that but dreamcast released at $200 while the xbox was a $300 machine. So 3 years $100 price difference at each launch.

Xbox and wii is weird ? Do you mean xbox 360 ? the OG xbox released in Nov 2001 and Wii 2006 so that was 5 years of course those are different generations. Xbox 360 was nov 2005 and wii nov 2006 so that wouldn't be a generational difference. Not to mention the wii was released at $200 vs the $300/$400 of the xbox 360.
 
Xbox and wii is weird ? Do you mean xbox 360 ? the OG xbox released in Nov 2001 and Wii 2006 so that was 5 years of course those are different generations. Xbox 360 was nov 2005 and wii nov 2006 so that wouldn't be a generational difference. Not to mention the wii was released at $200 vs the $300/$400 of the xbox 360.
Wii was a rereleased GameCube+ with a wiimote.
There was certainly a generational leap in hardware between the 360 and the Wii.
 
You could make a case for the dreamcast. It was released in 1998 in japan while the xbox released in 2001. Not only that but dreamcast released at $200 while the xbox was a $300 machine. So 3 years $100 price difference at each launch.

Xbox and wii is weird ? Do you mean xbox 360 ? the OG xbox released in Nov 2001 and Wii 2006 so that was 5 years of course those are different generations. Xbox 360 was nov 2005 and wii nov 2006 so that wouldn't be a generational difference. Not to mention the wii was released at $200 vs the $300/$400 of the xbox 360.

well, I think generally people consider DC and PS2 to be of the same gen and that makes perfect sense, PS2, GCN and XB are considered also from the same gen, but there is a big gap between XB and DC when it comes to hardware, perhaps bigger than XB vs Wii?

the 360 hardware clearly looks from a different gen compared to Wii.
 
I am confused. now. So is Scorpio a true next gen upgrade? Or not?
And it it is, wouldnt that require that it has exclusive titles not available on One?


Typically new consoles released with in a year or two of their competitors, so generations were much more cut and dry. PS4 Pro is obviously not a next generation console. If it were intended to be as such, Sony would have called it the PS5. Xbox Scorpio comes down to how Microsoft markets the product. The X360 released only four years after the original Xbox, and Scorpio will release four years after the X1. A bold way to do this would be to release the new console with a new Halo that will not release on the Xbox One. If it simply releases with superior versions of multi plat games, then I feel like its in the same boat as the PS4 Pro. Xbox One is not doing well on the global market. It does well in the US, and pretty good in the UK. Europe and Japan its a total bust. I think a hard reset would be more marketable for Microsoft. They can declare to be the first next generation console.

I don't believe a generations are defined by simple performance metrics. Even if Scorpio is a pretty modest improvement over Xbox One, if Microsoft releases exclusives for it, and markets it as a next generation console, then I believe it meets the criteria as a next gen console. Four year cycles is pretty short, but not unheard of.
 
I've always thought that consoles released in the same window of 1-2 years with a lifetime of around 5-6 years to be in the same generation. So Dreamcast, Ps2, GC and Xbox were one generation - albeit with very staggered releases, and one life cut short for the dreamcast.

Then PS3, Xb360 and Wii.

Then PS4, WiiU and Xb1.

Now everything is up in the air as forward/backward compatibility seems to have been created to basically negate what we used to think of "generations".

It's a different world with different needs. No point in holding on to old values such as a typical 6-7 year "generation" as manufacturers now look to release new incremental hardware more often, with compatible software among so called generations.
 
I've always thought that consoles released in the same window of 1-2 years with a lifetime of around 5-6 years to be in the same generation. So Dreamcast, Ps2, GC and Xbox were one generation - albeit with very staggered releases, and one life cut short for the dreamcast.

Then PS3, Xb360 and Wii.

Then PS4, WiiU and Xb1.

Now everything is up in the air as forward/backward compatibility seems to have been created to basically negate what we used to think of "generations".

It's a different world with different needs. No point in holding on to old values such as a typical 6-7 year "generation" as manufacturers now look to release new incremental hardware more often, with compatible software among so called generations.

DC to Xbox was 3 years. Xbox to Xbox 360 was 4 years.
 
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