Nintendo announce: Nintendo NX

[east of eastside]

I don't think that precludes a hybrid. A hybrid only need be a handheld/portable with HDMI out and controller support. You could provide a lighter-weight graphics experience via the handheld, and the full fat version on the dedicated console.

A hybrid and a dedicated console would be redundant, nor would the hybrid support local multiplayer, Nintendo's forte.

The whole point of a cross-device ecosystem is to have a synergy where one device encourages the sale of other devices in the ecosystem.

In Nintendo's case it wants to use mobile to sell handheld and console, and handheld and console to help sell each other.

Nintendo is in the business of making a profit from both console and handheld hardware, a hybrid would not be consistent with that strategy. A console and dedicated portable support a clear big screen and little screen sales strategy.

 

[Sonic]

Looks like related to streetpass to me.

Well thank you.

 

[Entropy]

Look at this Nintendo conference slide: "smart device, "future handheld", "future console".

No hybrid.

But that ignores the slide in the very first post in this thread that clearly shows "Dedicated Game system NX" along side the 3DS and the WiiU, indicating a single device.

It also ignores Iwatas direct statement, taken from the transcript:

As proof that Nintendo maintains strong enthusiasm for the dedicated game system business, let me confirm that Nintendo is currently developing a dedicated game platform with a brand-new concept under the development codename “NX.” It is too early to elaborate on the details of this project, but we hope to share more information with you next year.

Note "a" and "platform". Singular.
So to me the NX seems to describe a single device.

 

[Entropy]

Of course, the assumption that both the SoC contracts mentioned by AMDs CFO Devinder Kumar December 2014 were with Nintendo is fodder for interesting speculation in its own right. Wouldn't want to take that away from anyone.
If so, what could it mean that one of the chips targeted a device that went "beyond gaming"? And why would one be x86, and the other ARM, wouldn't a common architectural platform be preferable? How an APU for a stationary console might look seems very easy to predict, the questions revolve largely around die size and power draw. x86 and GCN evolved a bit seems a given.
A SoC for a portable is trickier to predict.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

A hybrid and a dedicated console would be redundant...

They'd be two different experiences. One you can take around anyone's house and play, no hassle, as well as play yourself on the go. The other would be a fairly fixed-location box. And importantly, in the home console arena Nintendo has stiff competition. A hybrid would be something new with a USP. It's not as powerful as a PS4 or XB1, but it supports social gaming more readily with both local multiplayer between people sharing devices and on the TV with couch coop.

The whole point of a cross-device ecosystem is to have a synergy where one device encourages the sale of other devices in the ecosystem.

Yep. The hybrid doesn't damage that. In fact, it potentially encourages it. eg. My friend comes round with a Nintendo NX tablet and plugs it into my TV and we play some Mario Kart.
"That's cool," says I, "but I'd prefer better visuals. I think I'll get PS4."
"Then buy the N7 console. It's not portable but is more powerful and runs the same games. And if you later get an NX, you games will cross over."

Also don't forget my initial suggestion was to use game streaming for the AAA games. At which point the handheld isn't at a power disadvantage. You can still play Batman and Assassin's Creed in all their glory, streamed, and you can play Nintendo's native games at 60 fps, low latency, with simpler graphics.

Nintendo is in the business of making a profit from both console and handheld hardware, a hybrid would not be consistent with that strategy. A console and dedicated portable support a clear big screen and little screen sales strategy.

Which requires a clear big screen and little screen market, both of which are highly contested and Nintendo has been squeezed out of since its prime. A hybrid is more Blue Ocean IMO. It's something no-one else is offering, with great social potential, which is really Nintendo's forté/focus. Lifestyle adverts will be much easier with a hybrid than two separate platforms.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

A hybrid and a dedicated console would be redundant, nor would the hybrid support local multiplay/er, Nintendo's forte.

How have you come to this conclusion?

 

[joker454]

But that ignores the slide in the very first post in this thread that clearly shows "Dedicated Game system NX" along side the 3DS and the WiiU, indicating a single device.

It also ignores Iwatas direct statement, taken from the transcript:

Note "a" and "platform". Singular.
So to me the NX seems to describe a single device.

From that chart I almost get the impression that their new dedicated game system is meant to serve as both a box to play games on tv directly, and to be a hub that can stream games to any device you have in your house be it phone, pc, 3ds or whatever. I mean what else could it be, I can't imagine them writing executables or emulators for all the devices listed in that chart when they could just video stream to them using the Nintendo NX as the main hub. Perhaps that's the "membership" part of it, where you buy the NX and play games on your tv and optionally sign up to their streaming membership service to extend play of their games to other devices via video streaming. Kind of like Steam's in home game streaming, but Nintendo could throw in some freebies with membership like the odd game here and there. This could also let them sell Nintendo controllers that you could pair with phone or pc to play their games on those devices. This way they make money on the base NX console, make money on membership fees, and make money on controller accessories.

 

[Entropy]

From that chart I almost get the impression that their new dedicated game system is meant to serve as both a box to play games on tv directly, and to be a hub that can stream games to any device you have in your house be it phone, pc, 3ds or whatever. I mean what else could it be, I can't imagine them writing executables or emulators for all the devices listed in that chart when they could just video stream to them using the Nintendo NX as the main hub. Perhaps that's the "membership" part of it, where you buy the NX and play games on your tv and optionally sign up to their streaming membership service to extend play of their games to other devices via video streaming. Kind of like Steam's in home game streaming, but Nintendo could throw in some freebies with membership like the odd game here and there. This could also let them sell Nintendo controllers that you could pair with phone or pc to play their games on those devices. This way they make money on the base NX console, make money on membership fees, and make money on controller accessories.

Hmm. Interesting. Certainly "brand new concept", but I can't see it working too well with their legacy products. As a basic feature for future devices, the idea is not without merits. But you'd need both low latency streaming, synchronized control schemes on all streamed to devices, and since you stream from your stationary box, it doesn't cater to out of home use. Plus, it begs the question why you wouldn't play on the big screen directly, so benefits are largely realized when there is contention for the attached TV.
Quite similar to the WiiU tablet controller, only using portables as clients.
Possible, and for sure a value adder to a stationary console, but I can't see it as all that compelling overall.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

From that chart I almost get the impression that their new dedicated game system is meant to serve as both a box to play games on tv directly, and to be a hub that can stream games to any device you have in your house be it phone, pc, 3ds or whatever. I mean what else could it be, I can't imagine them writing executables or emulators for all the devices listed in that chart when they could just video stream to them using the Nintendo NX as the main hub.

The topology of the diagram places the NX as an equal partner device connected to the network - it's just another client. There's nothing to the diagram to suggest NX is feeding into the network. That doesn't discount the possibility of remote play across devices which is something generally happening in the market, but I doubt NX is specifically a game server.

 

[Globalisateur]

...

So to me the NX seems to describe a single device.

Smartphone ~= Nintendo 3DS
PC ~= Wii U
Tablet ~= Nintendo NX

 

[dobwal]

Its a micro 3DS with a wristband.

 

[Blazkowicz]

The hardware specs :

640 by 360 progressive resolution, fast scaler to 720p, 1080p etc.
32768 colors out of a palette of 262144
1024 sprites (maximum 128 per scan line)
8 background layers
16bit stereo sound at 16KHz, 32Khz or 48KHz, 32 simultaneous voices

CPU is x86, sort of. It's a NEC V30 variant with the address space extended to 24 bits.

 

[joker454]

The topology of the diagram places the NX as an equal partner device connected to the network - it's just another client. There's nothing to the diagram to suggest NX is feeding into the network. That doesn't discount the possibility of remote play across devices which is something generally happening in the market, but I doubt NX is specifically a game server.

The layout of the bubbles may not mean anything though. It could be just a slide in an early presentation and in a future presentation they morph and move all that around to show their final vision. So I wouldn't necessarily read too much into the placement of the bubbles just yet. What I do read into is that they seem to be mentioning every device available in a very generic manner, using words like phone, tablet, pc, etc. That's a very generic and broad spectrum of devices. That's what leads me to think we're talking some form of in house streaming just because I can't imagine Nintendo would natively support all that variety of hardware.

To me it reads more like you install a Nintendo app on your device and the host NX box feeds it, or you can just use the NX like a normal console on your tv. That would let them work with other devices out there and at the same time still have secondary money streams like Amibo's, etc, that can work with the base console since they control that hardware. It's just a guess but it makes sense to me given the typical family today, where the kids don't all necessarily have a tv in their rooms but they are all likely to have a phone, tablet or pc in their room. This way an entire family can partake in Nintendo franchises in both the traditional box connected to a tv method, and also in the kid goes to their room and plays (and possibly spends) on their tablet/phone/pc method. If the Nintendo app is just a video/input streamer than it would be relatively easy for them to support iOS, Android, Windows, OSX, etc. Likewise this way they aren't betting the farm on any one player, they become totally os agnostic.

 

[Entropy]

The layout of the bubbles may not mean anything though. It could be just a slide in an early presentation and in a future presentation they morph and move all that around to show their final vision. So I wouldn't necessarily read too much into the placement of the bubbles just yet. What I do read into is that they seem to be mentioning every device available in a very generic manner, using words like phone, tablet, pc, etc. That's a very generic and broad spectrum of devices. That's what leads me to think we're talking some form of in house streaming just because I can't imagine Nintendo would natively support all that variety of hardware.

To me it reads more like you install a Nintendo app on your device and the host NX box feeds it, or you can just use the NX like a normal console on your tv. That would let them work with other devices out there and at the same time still have secondary money streams like Amibo's, etc, that can work with the base console since they control that hardware. It's just a guess but it makes sense to me given the typical family today, where the kids don't all necessarily have a tv in their rooms but they are all likely to have a phone, tablet or pc in their room. This way an entire family can partake in Nintendo franchises in both the traditional box connected to a tv method, and also in the kid goes to their room and plays (and possibly spends) on their tablet/phone/pc method. If the Nintendo app is just a video/input streamer than it would be relatively easy for them to support iOS, Android, Windows, OSX, etc. Likewise this way they aren't betting the farm on any one player, they become totally os agnostic.

While that would be elegant in a sense, you still have the problem of control schemes and portable use.
The way I read that slide, is that they will have an account system/messaging/leaderboard/whatever framework that can be accessed from all platforms.

 

[orangpelupa]

yeah i imagine their online platform will be like Xbox Live that goes across PC, Xbox, Windows Phone. Hopefully they also allows cross-buy and/or cross-play like PS4/PS3/Vita or X1/PC.

they already have ONE game that is cross-buy but not crossplay (forgot the name).

 

[Rodéric]

Mario vs. Donkey Kong Tipping Stars
Not the only game though, but the only one from Nintendo.

 

[joker454]

While that would be elegant in a sense, you still have the problem of control schemes and portable use.

True but I'm thinking they just sell a controller accessory for that so you can play all your Nintendo games on your device of choice as intended, or perhaps they supply one as part of the membership fee, kind of like when the cable company gives you a box when you sign up with them.

The way I read that slide, is that they will have an account system/messaging/leaderboard/whatever framework that can be accessed from all platforms.

It could very well be something as basic as that but I'm thinking they need to go much further than that if they want to stay relevant long term.

 

[Syferz]

This is the most clear Nintendo has ever been about a new platform, yet there is still flat out false assumptions about the platform even though statements from Nintendo exist that prove them false.

1. Nintendo's next platform is an OS. (nicknamed NintendOS)

2. NX is the first hardware device to use NintendOS.

3. NX will share at least a majority of its gaming library across all NintendOS devices, it might also only have a single SDK (this would be the best foot forward solution) another solution they should go with is game cards like 3DS uses, they should be able to get them to 16GB and maybe even 32GBs at some point, but given the nature of downloading updates/patches, the entire game wouldn't need to fit on the card anyways, much like XB1's MCC.

4. It doesn't matter what individual devices sell, the NintendOS success would be measured by the success of all NintendOS devices. Iwata has stated that they might release a 3rd or 4th device which lends itself further to the idea that these devices would share a library.

5. Nintendo doesn't need a 2nd platform to make games on, as they have given that role to iOS and Android, where they will start releasing games fitting that style of play.

6. Mobile games simply don't take the resources of a 3DS or it's successor, meaning Nintendo's resources tied to mobile will drop back to GBA or even GBC, giving more resources to NintenOS games which they will be able to release 20-30 games a year alone on.

7. NintenOS needs to be scale-able, the best way to look at the tech is to try and figure out the handheld and multiply that by 8x for the console, giving it a balanced and easily scale-able target.

Specs: AMD SoC APUs @ 14nm (globalfoundries)

The Handheld:

540p qHD resolution. (1/4th native console resolution of 1080p, for local multiplayer reasons)

CPU: dual core
A57 - K12
600mhz-1.2ghz

GPU: GCN successor 102 gflops - 307 gflops (The reasonable goal would be to match Wii U's 720p performance or exceed it that is 176 GFLOPs)
128 alus - 256 alus
400mhz - 600mhz

memory: 2GB

The Console:

No discs (smaller casing, better form factors, and a single store front rather than trying to push 2 different platforms on store shelves)
BC with Wii U through espresso co processor bolted onto MCM.

CPU: 8 core K12 /w SMT @ 2GHz+

GPU: 819 GFLOPs - 5 TFLOPs
"minimum" 512ALUs (8CUs) "likely" 1024 ALUs (16 CUs) "unlikely but possible" 2048 ALUs (32 CUs)
0.8GHz - 1.2GHz

8GB HBM - 16GB HBM (nintendo always spends money on memory, and has been the focus of their consoles since the Gamecube.

The Reasoning:

Nintendo isn't going to be in a hardware cycle any longer, they will not have droughts like the last 3 consoles either, with a single SDK developers might be releasing on the platform in general and only lock out titles based on minimal specs as Nintendo will release more devices, and can react quicker to the market than Sony or Microsoft while still building up a single install base thanks to NintendOS. If they release a console next year, they can release gen 2 of NX console in 2019 alongside PS5/XB2, Nintendo for sure isn't moving to the cloud anytime soon, they don't even have the option so their best option is to move away from tying their install base to individual boxes, and creating an ecosystem, currently that install base is ~65m gamers with a minimum of another year and a half of sales from 3DS/WiiU, I'd say the market for Nintendo isn't quite as unhealthy as you might hear from around the internet as that number is about 2/3rds of the current generation across all dedicated gaming hardware.

If Nintendo goes this route, they can react quite quickly to changes in the market, release a tablet with some buttons and support it without adding additional resources, not worry about failed devices such as the VB as they would be "add-ons" to the platform and not platforms with development teams of their own, requiring resources or even extra marketing.

If Nintendo released a handheld capable of Wii U's graphics and modern tech (for a handheld) it would mean 3rd party support would increase from western studios, companies like Ubisoft don't release Assassin's Creed on 3DS because of the lack of engine compatibility and basically remaking the entire game, but stripping down a PS4 game to run on the Wii U, well it has been done before and is done now for PC, so I find it likely that western support would increase, console 3rd party support would simply get the handheld's 3rd party games and any extra support the handheld receives would come to the console if it used the same media and played the same games, even if developers were completely lazy about it, you'd still get 540p wii u games, which while not the best looking, it would still be a large improvement over games like MH3U.

Bonus: Pokemon 3D game for consoles . This is why I'm excited for the NX, as a Wii U / n3DS owner, it would have been nice if they shared a library with purchases going into an account like steam.

 

[Prophecy2k]

Sorry Syferz... I stopped reading at, "NintendoOS... that they will be able to produce 20-30 new games a year alone on"!!!!

You're going to have to qualify that statement dude. When has Nintendo every had the dev capacity to be able to put out 20-30 games a year? 10-15 new games a year is a STRETCH.

 

[Syferz]

Sorry Syferz... I stopped reading at, "NintendoOS... that they will be able to produce 20-30 new games a year alone on"!!!!

You're going to have to qualify that statement dude. When has Nintendo every had the dev capacity to be able to put out 20-30 games a year? 10-15 new games a year is a STRETCH.

"NintendOS" is just a name for their platform until they officially announce it, Iwata has stated that they are moving Nintendo towards an iOS/Android like platform though.
They currently put out ~25 games a year.

Nintendo's 31 published games for 2013: (I wouldn't personally count Rayman or the Sonic games, but this is still enough to fit in the 20-30 games a year I mentioned, they do this every year, its just split between 3DS and Wii U)

• Lego City Undercover - 2013
• New Super Luigi U - 2013
• Game & Wario - 2013
• Pikmin 3 - 2013
• Rayman Legends (Japan)- 2013
• The Wonderful 101 - 2013
• The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker HD - 2013
• Wii Party U - 2013
• Pokémon Rumble U -2013
• Sonic Lost World (Europe/Australia)- 2013
• Wii Fit U - 2013
• Super Mario 3D World - 2013
• Mario & Sonic at the Sochi 2014 Olympic Winter Games - 2013
• Dr. Luigi - 2013
• NES Remix - 2013
• Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Gates to Infinity - 2013
• Tomodachi Life - 2013 (2014 for West)
• Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon - 2013
• LEGO City Undercover: The Chase Begins - 2013
• Donkey Kong Country Returns 3D - 2013
• Animal Crossing: New Leaf - 2013
• Inazuma Eleven 3: Bomb Blast - 2013 (PAL Only)
• Inazuma Eleven 3: Lightning Bolt - 2013 (PAL Only)
• Mario & Luigi: Dream Team - 2013
• Pokémon X - 2013
• Pokémon Y - 2013
• Sonic Lost World - 2013 (3ds)
• Professor Layton and the Arzan Legacy - 2013
• Bravely Default: Flying Fairy - 2013(2014 for NA)
• Mario Party: Island Tour - 2013(2014 for RotW)
• The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds - 2013