In the pc market you can share r&d between many many products with bigger margins
In the pc market you can share r&d between many many products with bigger margins
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Deleted member 86764
Guest
They certainly don't need it if they're about to monetise backwards compatibility with PS Now and have already spent a fortune acquiring a streaming based company.
It's debatable if XB1 needs a .5 refresh too. It depends how much is improved, at what cost, etc. If MS come out with a notably faster machine in 2016, will that affect PS4's market performance?
Bah, I think that's too OT. Let's just stick to whether MS can/should release a One.5. They can't know Sony's plans any more than we can, and can only base their decisions on the trends they're seeing. XB1 isn't doing hot at the mo'. Should they invest megabucks in pushing it, price cuts, or a new 1.5? 1.5 seems a valid option though I question the positive impact. The market would be core gamers wanting the best experience but having not shelled out on a console since 2014. Or, I guess, existing XB1 owners wanting to upgrade. Is that market really going to be that larger to justify the expense?
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Deleted member 86764
Guest
I can't see them releasing a machine that's just a little bit faster than the current one - it'd only upset the people that have already supported them this generation. I don't see a backwards compatible machine coming out either.
The only possibility I can imagine is this being one of the shortest generations, similar to the Xbox 1 - I think it'll be great if they did too.
I don't know how much they invested this generation compared to the last, but I see them willing to sell "games too", so if after 6 years they are surpassed by the last nvidia tablet, who cares? They are still making a profit selling movies, so the investors are happy and can delay the next round of heavy r&d
I agree, it's highly questionable whether MS need a "1.5". And by the time it came out it'd be too late to change the trajectory of the PS4 anyway ...
I think MS *can* release a 1.5 but I don't really think they should. It won't affect PS4, it would only be marginally more attractive than XB1, and it would alienate their core fanbase. Unless .5 releases are their long term game plan I don't think they should pursue it.
They should look to how Sony recovered the PS3: cost reduce, cost, reduce, content, content. And a smaller, more modest and more attractive box too. That can't hurt.
The interesting thing for new hardware is to look at the earliest opportunity for new hardware to give them an angle on the market. That's probably this 4K bollocks. It's worth remembering that the 360 successfully began targeting "HD" at a time when most people weren't even using HD sets. Even two or three years in, as the 360 successfully tackled the PS3, most 360 owners weren't even connected to their TV via HD ...
So what should MS be considering if they want to follow this path?
- Marketing hook: 4K
- Not too soon to alienate core Boners: probably 2017 at the earliest
- Take current Boners with you when they move up: BC
- Fud defence: make it powerful innit
Combining all these things you get 2017, 16 nm FunFets, AMD x86 'semi-custom' design, DDR4 or HBM, probably a good chunk of embedded memory, probably about 3X PS4 or 4X XB1 in terms of raw power (probably more in practice). I guess about 300~400 mm^2 again, just shy of 150W power.
That's if they want to try and get a head start into the next generation, which I think they might.
If the EA Access trend continues with additional major publishers and Sony does not get on with it, I don't see the Xbox One losing the main market. Core gamers are dictating the market today because they are early adopters. A lot of marketing for sony is really just word of mouth; the consensus is 'PS4 > Xbox' in every conceivable way at the same price point.
But these gaming subscriptions, it brings a lot of gaming value, at a price point that over a life time far exceeds the console cost difference, with an impact to gaming that is relatively not nearly as important as people make it out to be. (at least from a gaming experience)
If MS focuses hard on subscriptions and delivers on every other aspect other than visual prowess, I think they can mitigate the power differential point for consumers.
As many have said it themselves, if X1 was 100 dollars cheaper than PS4 because it's weaker than that makes sense to people and people wouldn't be riding on X1; the cost difference aligns with performance difference.
I'm sure there are other ways to make that value difference felt, it's too early to talk about new hardware imo. Especially if they have any intent to deliver something using cloud. It's far from over for Xbox One.
Services, Applications, Multimedia, All in One, Online/Digital world is going to be the differentiating point for Xbox One going forward. It's really the only way they can compete now that the hardware is locked.
The cost cutting will occur eventually, but it's anyone's guess as to who can cost cut their box better.
But these gaming subscriptions, it brings a lot of gaming value, at a price point that over a life time far exceeds the console cost difference, with an impact to gaming that is relatively not nearly as important as people make it out to be. (at least from a gaming experience)
If MS focuses hard on subscriptions and delivers on every other aspect other than visual prowess, I think they can mitigate the power differential point for consumers.
As many have said it themselves, if X1 was 100 dollars cheaper than PS4 because it's weaker than that makes sense to people and people wouldn't be riding on X1; the cost difference aligns with performance difference.
I'm sure there are other ways to make that value difference felt, it's too early to talk about new hardware imo. Especially if they have any intent to deliver something using cloud. It's far from over for Xbox One.
Services, Applications, Multimedia, All in One, Online/Digital world is going to be the differentiating point for Xbox One going forward. It's really the only way they can compete now that the hardware is locked.
The cost cutting will occur eventually, but it's anyone's guess as to who can cost cut their box better.
I think people should be thinking more about who is now running the XBOX and what his background is to understand what they are going to do.
My impression is that this is a guy that gets games and gets gaming for the platform and that is almost certainly going to be their focus, rather than reinvent the hardware wheel mid-cycle (which history has shown often ends in a complete failure - e.g. Saturn). What I question is the level of XBOX cuts we've seen from the MS reorg is related to the cut or related to the new business manager looking at his budgets and revaluating those resource budgets to focus back on securing content and improving the current platform.
Something like the recent EA announcement might be a direct result of the guy that owns this platform right now.
My impression is that this is a guy that gets games and gets gaming for the platform and that is almost certainly going to be their focus, rather than reinvent the hardware wheel mid-cycle (which history has shown often ends in a complete failure - e.g. Saturn). What I question is the level of XBOX cuts we've seen from the MS reorg is related to the cut or related to the new business manager looking at his budgets and revaluating those resource budgets to focus back on securing content and improving the current platform.
Something like the recent EA announcement might be a direct result of the guy that owns this platform right now.
The only thing I'll say about that is there was no backwards/forwards compatibility between Saturn and Dreamcast. Any mid-cycle product launch for Xbox would require Xbox One games to run on Xbox Two, and Xbox Two games to run on Xbox One. I think without those two features, it would be a Saturn, Dreamcast type disaster. Like you, I still don't think they'd do it.
For sure, an x86 CPU base and easily scalable graphics IP certainly makes BC a no-brainer from a hardware perspective, but this model already exists... its called the PC. As a developer / publisher I'd be none to impressed with one of the platform holders, that skims part of my profits in the form of a platform license fee, coming to me saying I have to increase my development (slightly) and double my Q&A efforts when I'm already doing that type of thing and take all the profits on the PC.
I'd think it would be better than cross-generational development between Xbox One and Xbox 360. But I guess the length of the overlap is a problem for that. 360 will get dumped quick, so you only have a year or two of crossover, rather than four.
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Deleted member 11852
Guest
If they're coming in in 3-4 years and be expected to last another 5 years, I'd say yes. 4K will likely be a commodity part by then, whether you want it (and whether there's any much native content for it) or not.
For me it is clear what they do "next", it has nothing to do with dumping another big load of money in proprietary hardware.
Direct X12 is coming everywhere, Google is giving TV a better try, there is no much room for dicking around MSFT OS business is more and more threatened, whatever happens to the XB1 and on any market MSFT will fight hard over.thwir OS.
Direct X12 is coming everywhere, Google is giving TV a better try, there is no much room for dicking around MSFT OS business is more and more threatened, whatever happens to the XB1 and on any market MSFT will fight hard over.thwir OS.
That would feel as if they released nothing at all. Almost a year has passed already..., so that wouldn't give the console time to breathe. 2018 would be my "at the very least date" to release a new console, and even so I just hope that the Xbox One can last til the year 2020 without a successor.
My hope is that they focus on how Xbox started in the business, looking back and reflecting on the right decisions they made before.
Xbox One was a bit like the song Moon River goes... "Oh, dream maker, you heart breaker...", but it isn't so bad after all and could last a few years.
Why are ppl even debating this, theres no xbone+0.5 coming, Rangers is correct the next xbox you'll see will be out in ~4 years at the earliest.
The best thing MS can do now WRT xbone is just releasing games like halo 5, dead or alive, ninja gaiden, gears of war etc and perhaps a price reduction (PS4 won't follow this year)
The best thing MS can do now WRT xbone is just releasing games like halo 5, dead or alive, ninja gaiden, gears of war etc and perhaps a price reduction (PS4 won't follow this year)
Megadrive1988
Veteran
Not counting the usual slim console revisions, or whatever Nintendo's next move is, I do not want to see, nor do I expect next generation Xbox or PlayStation until Fall 2018 at the soonest. A full 5 years between generations. If not, then 6 years, meaning Fall 2019.
Stacked DRAM and the bandwidth benefit it'll provide is going to be a very important advancement in PC graphics in the next few years.
It'll probably take a few more years after that to see stacked DRAM mass produced in APUs in a very affordable and reliable manner for consoles at the $399 price-point that people pick up from or order online from Walmart, GameStop, Best Buy, Amazon, etc.
We will almost assuredly have next generation consoles before the end of this decade, but not in 2-3 years time, as of mid 2014.
The idea of an Xbox Two or PS4.5 is the same idea that some here thought would happen last gen with an interim Xbox 360 II and PS3.5.
That sort of thing has never worked.
Remember 3DO Mark II (M2) and the less well-known Atari Jaguar II / Project Midsummer? Those never happened as game consoles, or in Jaguar II's case, at all.
There are other examples, ones that actually did get released as game consoles.
The NEC SuperGrafx (originally named PC-Engine 2) is one of them. It had a 2nd graphics chip, more RAM and VRAM. It bombed, badly.
Stacked DRAM and the bandwidth benefit it'll provide is going to be a very important advancement in PC graphics in the next few years.
It'll probably take a few more years after that to see stacked DRAM mass produced in APUs in a very affordable and reliable manner for consoles at the $399 price-point that people pick up from or order online from Walmart, GameStop, Best Buy, Amazon, etc.
We will almost assuredly have next generation consoles before the end of this decade, but not in 2-3 years time, as of mid 2014.
The idea of an Xbox Two or PS4.5 is the same idea that some here thought would happen last gen with an interim Xbox 360 II and PS3.5.
That sort of thing has never worked.
Remember 3DO Mark II (M2) and the less well-known Atari Jaguar II / Project Midsummer? Those never happened as game consoles, or in Jaguar II's case, at all.
There are other examples, ones that actually did get released as game consoles.
The NEC SuperGrafx (originally named PC-Engine 2) is one of them. It had a 2nd graphics chip, more RAM and VRAM. It bombed, badly.
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SlickShoesRUCrazy
Newcomer
On the hardware front, I don't expect them to release a new console until 2018. I don't think, well at least I hope, they won't make the same mistakes with the hardware for the xb1s successors. If they are going to charge $500 again, I hope there is $500 worth of hardware under the hood.
in the interim, I know people hated GFWL. But, I personally am surprised they haven't tried do more with the xbox os. A $99-199 media player, that can xbla games and be used as a hub to stream xb1 games to another room?
Or even use it as a htpc os that can compete with steam big picture mode while still being able to play with people over xbox live on xbox ones would be fantastic, though it would be hard to deal with the steam sales lol.
in the interim, I know people hated GFWL. But, I personally am surprised they haven't tried do more with the xbox os. A $99-199 media player, that can xbla games and be used as a hub to stream xb1 games to another room?
Or even use it as a htpc os that can compete with steam big picture mode while still being able to play with people over xbox live on xbox ones would be fantastic, though it would be hard to deal with the steam sales lol.
Others have said new consoles cost a lot of money and that's why MS wont release on in 2017 like I think .
Out of the two companies MS is in the best financial shape to launch a console again in 4 years and while sony can do the same thing , unless their fortunes of the whole company change in the next 4 to 5 years it can be the end of the company if things go poorly for them.
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