External vs internal PSUs *spawn

Study: Xbox One, PS4 consume ridiculous amounts of unnecessary power

Since we're talking about power (somewhat)... I think I found XB1 edge over PS4. Running up your electric bill faster... j/k :LOL:

But seriously...

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2156...-ridiculous-amounts-of-unnecessary-power.html

Both Microsoft’s Xbox One and Sony’s PlayStation 4 consume between two to three times the power of their predecessors—mostly waiting around for something to do.

The report, issued Friday by the nonprofit Natural Resources Defense Council, found that the Xbox One’s power consumption was especially egregious, consuming a maximum of 289 kilowatt-hours per year, as opposed to the 70 kWh/year consumed by the last-generation Xbox 360. But the Nintendo Wii U went the opposite direction, actually consuming 37 kWh/y versus the 40 kWh/y consumed by the Wii.

The One’s power consumption was especially egregious, due to the fact that the console is used both for controlling a television as well as listening for voice commands. But the Playstation 4’s USB recharging is also very inefficient, the NRDC said.
 
External power supplies just remind how inefficient using AC to power DC devices is...

Roll on surface contact power supplies.
 
well this will go no where. I have an entertainment unit to keep my av components in. I have a nice piece of furniture for dvds/blurays/games . I don't put crap next to my av components so I don't have the same issues as you.

Each component gets its own cubby. The fact that the power supply can be housed behind the furniture and have its own airflow not affected by the system is a nice perk. The size of the console doesn't really change anything .

Everyone has different prefrences. I'm just not sure how size actually affects anything when its a stationary device.

But we will just argue till the sun comes up so have a great evening and enjoy your ps4 and hopefully the crap next to it doesn't scratch it up on you.

I have a huge av cabinet to house my 360,wii,p3,ps2 laptop htpc and a amp and cd player, wireless router, switch and sometimes my ps4. The crap is the needed controllers add-ons for the consoles games, and the annoying external psus. There isn't any space beneath the cabinet, there is only the cabinet. The consoles that has a external psu takes up more space, adds cables and is laughed at by such old hardware as the PS4. It's rough to be the primitive hardware in my cabinet.


Thinking about it, I would have to reshuffle and maybe move something out to get room for the xb1 and the controllers, rechargers, psu and games.
 
I bring my console out of the country on business trips and the fact that the PS4 with the HDMI cable, power cable, and controllers all combine to be relatively compact and can fit in my luggage (also doesn't make the luggage over 20kg) helps a TON.

The fact that ALL PS4 takes in 100V~240V without needing a converter (just change the plugs for different countries) also helps another TON.
The fact that Xbox one doesn't provide a universal version of the PSU that comes in every package also doesn't help.

There's your argument against the external PSU. PS4 just makes bringing it around so much easier. Might mean nothing to certain folks though.
 
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Listen , I have 6 xbox 360s in my house , my gf has 4 xbox 360s. These range from the original 20 gig premium down to the newest redesign (we use media center ) I had a single ps3. My ps3 is the system that died (bluray drive went and then it wouldn't turn on any more)

I have yet to have any problem with any of the external power bricks . I also have never in my life stacked any AV equipment in my life. I buy entertainment units that are functional . My receiver and my xbox one both have their own spot as does the htpc and tuning adapter.

I'm sorry you made poor choices in furniture that don't allow you that luxury that my $40 entertainment stand from Lowes affords me.

Sorry but... What do you do with a grand total of 9 Xbox 360's???
 
Windows MediaCenter in every room. X360 is a great media center extender.
 
I've been lucky with my XB360, as well as any other system I ever owned. I've seen a lot of people treat their systems and electronics like sh**. But in all honesty, I seen more PS2s returned (needing repair) over the years dealing with overheating issues, followed by XB360 (bad HDD or overheating issue). I can't recall too many XB360 PSUs dying.
 
So here is my dream future. A PSU open standard, shared by multiple eletronic manufacturers. It has standardized functionality and size (maybe half a dozen power/size/price variants like disposable bateries) Devices that use it, have spare space to fit it within its volume, yet it is easily detachable for repair, and can be used externally with an aditional cable if for some reason a user wants that.
Also, the future consoles will also save the game and system state to HDD so it can turn off completely and still have quick restart.
Does my dream future proposition have any disadvantages?
 
So here is my dream future. A PSU open standard, shared by multiple eletronic manufacturers. It has standardized functionality and size (maybe half a dozen power/size/price variants like disposable bateries) Devices that use it, have spare space to fit it within its volume, yet it is easily detachable for repair, and can be used externally with an aditional cable if for some reason a user wants that.
Also, the future consoles will also save the game and system state to HDD so it can turn off completely and still have quick restart.
Does my dream future proposition have any disadvantages?

Wouldn't work with the PS4 the cooling and psu is tightly designed along with the other components. I think the same is the case for the PS3. The xb1 uses a much more conservative approach, and could in principle work with your suggestion.
 
Agreed 100% :oops:

But you're wrong about the internal vs external reliability when a small fan and a high current connector is involved, also heat is basically removed for free on the PS4. I would like to write a long explanation why, but It would be a technical discussion instead of a business one so I'll drop it.

I think I know exactly what you are talking about.

PS4 whole cooling solution is an impressive piece of engineering.

Slated artsy design combined with an inverted motherboard, cool lateral vents, handy internal PSU, EMF shields, GDDR5 memory chips pasted on one of those shields...

All those elements apparently serving their apparent role (beauty, fun, convenience, EMF shielding...) but their most important role is in fact here to cool the 150W small system in a cheap, artistic and efficient way.

Technically a PS4 is a very sophisticated...fan heater. :LOL:
 
Oh, it's as simple as it sounds. The placed the motherboard so the SOC is facing down. Amazing.
:LOL:

No, it's complicated. I dismantled my PS4 completely about 5 times now, and voided the warranty as soon as I got it in november (which I do with everything, really). I'm still not 100% sure about a lot of details, but here it goes...

The centering of the ODD, the HDD being on top, and the almost complete lack of cables, all require an inverted motherboard. Otherwise it would have added an inch in height. It allows a lot of space saving without ever impacting the cooling efficiency, there isn't a milimeter wasted. The HDD is right on the motherboard plane, so no cables, and still easily accessible. Heat rises, and the top plate happens to be the motherboard shielding which is very well cooled, so there's no heat accumulation under an isolating plastic. If placed vertically, any heat source will hugs the shielding plate anyway, but it's less efficient, it's probably a little noisier vertically? I don't know.

The fan turns toward the wall, and it allows a clever trick of increasing pressure when combined with the split fins density. Few people realize that fin surface area is similar between the XB1 and the PS4, so cooling capacity with the same flow is also similar. The holy grail of heat management is about pressure, not free air flow. Because pressure allows thin laminar flow, deeper fins, and higher fin density, with lots of surface without wind noise associated with flow. That makes a system incredibly smaller for the same cooling efficiency. Trying to get a lot of pressure without needing a very high RPM is an art in itself, but that's exactly what the heavily slanted fan blades are doing in a centrifugal design. Prioritize pressure.

The Power supply is at the end of the air path, and it can tolerate the higher air temperature compared to the HDD or ODD, so it's basically cooled for free since there's plenty of pressure available and the PS components are widely spaced. Being at the end of the path, it doesn't impact the other components temperature.

The split intake above and below the fan is reducing air speed by half, reducing turbulence by half. This split also creates a very wide laminar flow on the top and bottom of the case (isolates the PS4 from stacked components), and also a thin layer of cold air between the shielding and the motherboard on both sides. This isolates the hot SoC cooling from the rest of the system, each path is independent and isolated from each other by a layer of cold air. The holes and embossing of the shield plates are precisely designed to balance the pressure available to keep everyone on the motherboard happy.

XB1 is using an opposite design, low pressure, like a PC. Therefore they cannot have a thick heatsink and have to spread it very wide (thicker would bog down the fan and stop the flow, requiring higher RPM). They have 3 inches high available and still can't have thick heat sink. The rest of the case is a big waste of space, and the motherboard itself has a negligible air flow, much less than the PS4. Maybe they could fit a power supply there, but it's possible that the fan design prevents them from having enough pressure to cool it, and It would be in the wrong path (the intake) while a PS should always be at the end of a cooling path. The reason is about operating temperature. Sensitive stuff goes before the SoC, and non-sensitive stuff after.

I'm troubled by the fact that some people were brainwashed into thinking that it's as simple as "it's bigger, so it can be less noisy". Or even that an external PS with it's own fan makes a positive difference by itself. It's a good exercise to look back at the "prediction" thread where people thought the PS4 would be very noisy, or much bigger than XB1, or would have an external PS. Rules of thumbs break down when it's not just a guy building his own PC. Airflow and cooling is an insanely difficult topic when you stop using rules of thumb and want to maximize everything. I won't pretend I understand it all, but I understood enough to be right about it, long before we had the consoles in our hands.

"This device would have been better with an external PS with it's own small fan"
-- said no one ever in the history of consumer electronics. The question should be about what compromises or additional development were necessary to avoid having an external power supply with a fan.
 
The short version of that story is ducting, a blower and an upside-down PCB. It looks like it's well designed.

Xbox One appears to have been designed to prioritize simplicity to manufacture and repair over size. Both systems seem to do well in terms of being quiet and managing their thermal profile.
 
Sorry but... What do you do with a grand total of 9 Xbox 360's???

Netflix in every room I presume.

Windows MediaCenter in every room. X360 is a great media center extender.

We don't have cable boxes anymore. We have a ceton 4 tuner and a 6 tuner. That gives us 10 channels we can record or watch at a time.

The 360 is a great extender as Brit said.

I just wish the xbox one had the extender feature. We would start replacing more 360s with them. THe Kinect is amazing for controlling the tv
 
"I would of bought a XB1 but it had an external PSU, so I bought a PS4." is a justification thats probably never been used.

If it had its probably somewhere between. "because 4 is bigger than one" and "because I am Peter Simons the fourth" in terms of relevancy on the impact of overall sales.

If you had to eat 1+ billion in losses on your last product and you've only designed a handful of CE products, you might go with tried and true methods versus trying to get fancy.
 
We don't have cable boxes anymore. We have a ceton 4 tuner and a 6 tuner. That gives us 10 channels we can record or watch at a time.

The 360 is a great extender as Brit said.

I just wish the xbox one had the extender feature. We would start replacing more 360s with them. THe Kinect is amazing for controlling the tv

Your house must be pretty awesome. I don't even have 9 rooms to put 9 360s into.
 
The short version of that story is ducting, a blower and an upside-down PCB. It looks like it's well designed.

Xbox One appears to have been designed to prioritize simplicity to manufacture and repair over size. Both systems seem to do well in terms of being quiet and managing their thermal profile.

It will be interesting to see what design works better for the long haul.

The small fans of the original 360 are extremely loud now in my launch unit, the ps3 40 gig I had got even louder and I had to open it and clean out the dust multiple times. The slim xbox 360 hasn't been a problem yet although I think its what 4 years old at this point so may be a while yet. I can't speak for the playstation redesigns
 
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