All purpose sales and sales rumors/anecdotes thread next gen+

[Shifty Geezer]

Btw, it also said the Xbox 360 numbers were still growing

One sale a month for XB360 would mean numbers are still growing. That's just a spin. XB360 is selling weakly (lower than X1). PS3 even worse by comparison. You won't catch Sony saying 'PS3 numbers continue to grow' though as they can ride the Number One PR train.

When the Xbox One drops the TV stuff...

What do you mean? Lose the TV functionality? It's software. Why remove a feature?

...and gets a 289 dollar MSRP, then all the people who had a 360, will buy the Xbox One. It's just a matter of time until that happens

Presumably when X1 is <$300, so will PS4 be. Allegiance to a brand isn't enough for MS to trust 80 million customers will migrate. Some will, but it'd be a mistake to expect every 360 owner to upgrade without considering the competition.

 

[SlimJim]

One sale a month for XB360 would mean numbers are still growing. That's just a spin. XB360 is selling weakly (lower than X1). PS3 even worse by comparison. You won't catch Sony saying 'PS3 numbers continue to grow' though as they can ride the Number One PR train.

What do you mean? Lose the TV functionality? It's software. Why remove a feature?

Presumably when X1 is <$300, so will PS4 be. Allegiance to a brand isn't enough for MS to trust 80 million customers will migrate. Some will, but it'd be a mistake to expect every 360 owner to upgrade without considering the competition.

Sorry, I meant that the report said

and solid growth in Xbox 360 sales.

which I thought meant a higher percentage in monthly sales. But anyway.

With "TV" I am referring to the HDMI-IN (which isn't even working properly in Europe).
if they remove the HDMI-IN from the system, then can rebrand it is "Xbox One Gamer Edition" starting at 289.

Talking about "allegiance to a brand": how many of the Xbox 360 supporters/ fanboys on this forum have switched to PS4?
In know this forum is not representative for the whole consumer base, but I think it paints a picture: they are just waiting for the right price. We have fans here claiming in threads that 1080P is indistinguishable from 720P with good AA. Or how a 50% more powerful GPU will not lead to any disparity, that it's only a case of "mastering the hardware" which will make the systems even. On the other hand I read about people claiming that TLoU is only good on youtube and that is has no gameplay. Or that Forza 5 is a graphical masterpiece.
These kind of Xbox supporters will never change to PS4
In my life I have met many Xbox supporters. It's like football to them; you keep rooting for your team, even if they have a bad season (generation). So I think you really underestimate the allegiance to a brand-factor in console gaming.

Friends also are a big factor, especially considering the popularity of COD is the USA: you play on the system to play with your friends.
COD last year had great sales on the 360 still. If the new COD is significantly better on Xbox One, if Xbox One is the right price, they will get that system.
I even know Xbox fans that bought extra consoles when their consoles were in repair, just so they could continue to play COD with their friends. For them 289 will mean instant buy

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Sorry, I meant that the report said
which I thought meant a higher percentage in monthly sales.

It could do, although it's all very unclear. At ~60k, they could see strong 33% growth and hit 80k. Talking about growth is a great way to make the most of really low numbers. If you have one customer one day, and two the next, you've doubled your business and claim rapid growth, unprecedented in the industry (whatever industry that might be).

Basically PR remarks without numbers aren't much use.

With "TV" I am referring to the HDMI-IN (which isn't even working properly in Europe).
if they remove the HDMI-IN from the system, then can rebrand it is "Xbox One Gamer Edition" starting at 289.

Why would removing the HDMI in drop the price so much?

Talking about "allegiance to a brand": how many of the Xbox 360 supporters/ fanboys on this forum have switched to PS4?...

Every brand has its fans. There'll be, I dunno, 10-20 million XB fans who'll buy XB no matter what. Same for Nintendo and Sony. Everyone else hasn't such strong allegiances. They may have a particular brand preference, but it can be changed, and this accounts for companies on top suddenly having a change in fortunes, whether that's Sony or Apple or Nintendo or whoever.

The idea that one can just make a sequel product and sell to all the same owners as the previous version is plain wrong. Oh, this is more a business strategy discussion. This here thread is for the numbers rather than the analysis.

 

[BRiT]

Why do you say the HDMI in does not work in Europe? They have updated the firmware to work with 50hz input and display it at 50Hz.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

Why do you say the HDMI in does not work in Europe? They have updated the firmware to work with 50hz input and display it at 50Hz.

Does the IR blaster part of the Kinect now work for Europe? I was under the impression it was still work-in-progress. Also, from what I remember about a DF article, the 50hz option only works if you're just viewing TV. If you have something snapped to the side I guess it's still a problem? Maybe it's just for games and TV when they're shown together.

I still haven't seen an Xbox One in the flesh to even have a play about with it.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

If you have something snapped to the side I guess it's still a problem?

That's inevitable. You can't view a 50 Hz signal on a 60 Hz refresh display which is what you're asking when running PAL content snapped to a 60 Hz game. At least MS didn't cap EU XB360's to 50 Hz! The fault really is the EU persisting in 50 Hz content. Move to 60 Hz and it's lovely. It's worth noting tablets have the same issue. They all refresh at 60 Hz, making playback of PAL content juddery. The only real fix MS could have applied, ensuring 50 Hz output on full-screen content, they did apply.

 

[London Geezer]

That's inevitable. You can't view a 50 Hz signal on a 60 Hz refresh display which is what you're asking when running PAL content snapped to a 60 Hz game. At least MS didn't cap EU XB360's to 50 Hz! The fault really is the EU persisting in 50 Hz content. Move to 60 Hz and it's lovely. It's worth noting tablets have the same issue. They all refresh at 60 Hz, making playback of PAL content juddery. The only real fix MS could have applied, ensuring 50 Hz output on full-screen content, they did apply.

But is HD content in the UK/Europe still released at 50Hz??
Time to let go!

 

[DJ12]

Let's wait and see what PS4 sales were like before calling doom and gloom for XB1. I'm interested in seeing if PS4 outsold XB1 and by how much. If it's a small amount then it isn't bad news for MS given the usual slow summers. It could be demand has picked up yet the seasonal demand isn't there overall for either platforms. Summer has a way of making people spend more time and money outdoors on recreational activities. I still spend money on gaming in the summer, but not nearly as much compared to fall/winter. So if XB1 sold 150 - 160k then at least they're back on the path they were earlier this year.

If PS4 outsold XB1 by a lot then MS has real reason to worry. PS4's demand has remained steady and overall market momentum continuing to build. It could just be the tip of the iceberg in terms of sales for the rest of the year. I really wonder how big the sales gap will be at the end of the year or if MS will be able to to bounce back.

If it didn't outsell Xbox maybe Microsoft would've made mention of being the best selling next gen console.

The fact they didn't pretty much confirms ps4 sold better and I'd wager by a decent margin.

 

[steveOrino]

But...

May 19.25k/week
June (presume 160k) 32k/week

About some 50% increase.

Also, Kinectless SKU began June 9. June NPD also includes the last few days of May I believe. So, roughly two weeks of the five weeks the $399 SKU wasn't available. If we presume X1 sold around 20k/week (prior rate) those two weeks, then it sold ~40k/week post-$399. About a doubling of previous rate.

Certainly it didn't have an amazing effect though, and as noted I'm very intrigued by July based on Amazon.

I still think X1 needs to be $299, that's it's natural price point where imo the value becomes good for the hardware in the box. When or if MS will realize this and how glacially slow they will effect it remains. I think they will have to redesign it ("slim") and de-emphasize build quality to get there, as well. I have my doubts the current huge, glossy, high quality, near silent, front loading slot Blu Ray, touch power button, revision can reach $299. More likely we'd see an interim stopgap step at 350/450 on the current form factor as well. Regardless, $399 helps and is a good start.

Yeah. IMO they need to ditch HDMI-IN, IR, Kinect IN (not going to happen), that unnecessary gigantic case and get engineers who can get the PSU in the box.

The question of price drops is interesting because if they keep rapidly cutting people just might wait and see where the floor is. I have no clue how you stagger price cuts in this situation.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Yeah. IMO they need to ditch HDMI-IN, IR, Kinect IN (not going to happen), that unnecessary gigantic case and get engineers who can get the PSU in the box.

The question of price drops is interesting because if they keep rapidly cutting people just might wait and see where the floor is. I have no clue how you stagger price cuts in this situation.

Why would you scrap the inputs for HDMI-IN and Kinect? Ditching the HDMI-IN would probably be a dumb move, but ditching the Kinect input would be even dumber. Also, there's nothing to ditch for IR in itself. Kinect is the IR blaster and the rest is just software. There's really no money to be saved now that Kinect is out of the box.

 

[tuna]

The fault really is the EU persisting in 50 Hz content. Move to 60 Hz and it's lovely.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with 50 fps video. It is just another frame rate. And haven't we already had this discussion (and isn't this OT)?

 

[Nesh]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with 50 fps video. It is just another frame rate. And haven't we already had this discussion (and isn't this OT)?

I demand bannage for Shifty for trolling with OT material

 

[Shifty Geezer]

But is HD content in the UK/Europe still released at 50Hz??

Anything shot for broadcast needs to be. Certainly all the BBC's stuff is 50 Hz and plays back poorly on mobile devices. You can't snap such content on a 60/30 Hz game and not have issues.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with 50 fps video. It is just another frame rate.

As long as playback is properly, transparently supported, sure. But it isn't. eg. 60 Hz mobile devices with no 50 Hz support. And regards snapped content, 50 Hz is incompatible with 60 Hz games. If video content was universally 60 Hz there'd be no judder (although of course film then has issues...)

(and isn't this OT)?

Yep! Came from talk about snapped media though.

I demand bannage for Shifty for trolling with OT material

Seconded! I guess this thread is going through one of its lull phases. Not really much sales stuff to talk about any more. Back to more business talk then sales figures. Blame NPD.

 

[steveOrino]

Why would you scrap the inputs for HDMI-IN and Kinect? Ditching the HDMI-IN would probably be a dumb move, but ditching the Kinect input would be even dumber. Also, there's nothing to ditch for IR in itself. Kinect is the IR blaster and the rest is just software. There's really no money to be saved now that Kinect is out of the box.

The dumb move of including them in the first place was already done. IR output doesn't need to exist (they could probably stand to nuke a USB port) and neither does the HDMI-IN since those features I can confidently say aren't getting people to buy it. It will save BoM and lead to simpler MB design. Kinect IN as I said wont be removed but since the tech is a DEAD END for a gaming console and nothing of value software wise will be released it could stand to be axed. And lastly, in their re-design they should make the internal HDD user upgradable.

BTW, what is your reasoning for keeping them? MS has clearly changed their focus to gaming and burying Kinect behind the shed.

 

[Dave Baumann]

No, they have changed their PR focus at the moment, that doesn't mean they have changed the platform direction over the long term. At the moment we are still in the "appeal to the core" phase, as price drops through the lifetime of the unit the focus will be "appeal to the mainstream" and Kinect and TV functionality can be differentiators that appeal to mainstream.

 

[function]

The dumb move of including them in the first place was already done. IR output doesn't need to exist (they could probably stand to nuke a USB port) and neither does the HDMI-IN since those features I can confidently say aren't getting people to buy it. It will save BoM and lead to simpler MB design. Kinect IN as I said wont be removed but since the tech is a DEAD END for a gaming console and nothing of value software wise will be released it could stand to be axed. And lastly, in their re-design they should make the internal HDD user upgradable.

BTW, what is your reasoning for keeping them? MS has clearly changed their focus to gaming and burying Kinect behind the shed.

Kinect is still for sale bundled with the Xbox 360, so why should MS rip the Kinect port off the back of Xbone? The dedicated silicon would still be in the console even if you did.

Voice, camera and motion capture aren't dead end for a console - and they certainly aren't for an entertainment device. They're not able to sell a more expensive version of the platform to everyone, but that doesn't mean that it won't have value over time to a worthwhile proportion of potential Bowners.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

No, they have changed their PR focus at the moment, that doesn't mean they have changed the platform direction over the long term. At the moment we are still in the "appeal to the core" phase, as price drops through the lifetime of the unit the focus will be "appeal to the mainstream" and Kinect and TV functionality can be differentiators that appeal to mainstream.

I agree. XB1 is still the product designed. MS have shifted focus because they weren't appealing to their intended audience at this price-point and are shifting to appeal to core gamers for the time being. When the price is right, and they'll have improved services and experience, they can take another bash at selling it as a mainstream CE device. It'd be silly to abandon the core concepts behind the design just because it got off to a ropey start when the original business plan must still be as valid now as it was on the drawing board. A lack of sales at $400 doesn't prove Kinect and TV are dead ends to be forgotten.

 

[function]

I don't think the original Xbox One vision begins to work until you get below $400, and probably closer to $300. It's priced beyond mainstream laptops, mainstream TVs and even high end smart phones at present. Relative to other electronic devices you're likely to buy to entertain yourself it's pretty damn expensive.

As it is now, it's a luxury item only core gamers will drop money on ... and they've gone for PS4 instead. MS need to move out of this segment and into the mainstream as quickly as possible, before Sony establish themselves there.

 

[babybumb]

That June result is really worrying for Microsoft when you take in to account that lot of demand from may when they only did less than 80k was supposed to shift to june when the pricedrop took effect and it is barely up on april in weekly units. June should be bigger than April normally anyway

 

[DieH@rd]

I wonder how strong WD sales will be in June [both software and pushing PS4 hardware]...