It is all about the games that's why we buy into consoles. But the xbone isn't about the games it's about all its other functionality like voice recognition and TV, games are just an add-on to make the device more palatable.
Business Approach Comparison Sony PS4 and Microsoft Xbox
- Thread starter BRiT
- Start date
It is all about the games that's why we buy into consoles. But the xbone isn't about the games it's about all its other functionality like voice recognition and TV, games are just an add-on to make the device more palatable.
PS3 has also cost way more for all its life, and had very little competition. Comparing PS3 to PS2 isn't very informative. Comparing PS3 to XB360, its peer, it basically equalled the rival's performance with a 10 million deficit. That proves that a platform can do every bit as well as any other even with that other having a much stronger start. XB1's can sell just as well as PS4 (or better, or worse) despite a slow start, although of course the stronger the start, the better.
We do not want discussions revolving around people's platform preferences. If the basis of your arguments are, "fans can't see the woods for the trees," please keep them to yourself. As per the FAQ, discussion of board members' biases is pointless and just generates noise.
Would it be allowed to open a thread to discuss those kind of observations? Because I have not seen this level of delusion/denial for a really long time, and I am pretty sure that a mod for this kind of forum can attest to that.
Anyway, I was just trying to help illustrate why people in some platform cases are unable to assess a situation neutrally.
Now back on topic of business approach comparison:
It looks like the business approach of the Xbox 1 is completely out of touch.
The slow, slow 8GB of DDR3 memory was to facilitate the TV and Kinect functions. Both of which will alienate hardcore gamers, and even worse, won't even function in half of the market. The design of the console is creating yield problems, which is bad as well, because they can't even launch in all promised countries. I won't even touch all the DRM and policy reversals with a 10-foot pole. Not even a 20- or 30-foot, or basically, any pole at all..
A lot of people will be fired over the Xbox1 business approach, I can tell you that.
Now compare that to the PS4 business approach:
Every single person of the team is on the same wavelength, there is no confusion. They give honest, open interviews, they allow comments on their youtube channel.
All in all: they show confidence and great pride in their work.
No higher-up people getting fired or leaving for zynga. Or CEO's stepping down, none of that.
I cannot send PM's or edits, so I'll just throw in here that I thoroughly read http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=40204
I posted an animated gif, but I cannot edit it out so I hope that is not a problem. Feel free to delete this message because again, I cannot respond to the PM. (that is personal message, not Prime Minister) (though one could argue, a mod kind of is like a PM
)
I posted an animated gif, but I cannot edit it out so I hope that is not a problem. Feel free to delete this message because again, I cannot respond to the PM. (that is personal message, not Prime Minister) (though one could argue, a mod kind of is like a PM
)
You won't find any mod attesting to the degree of delusion and denial of a populace of gamers - we quite frankly don't give a shit about the fanboy nonsense that people like yourself seem to obsess over. Let the 'delusional' fanboys suffer tragically on other forums. The only time delusions bother us is when they fly in the face of hard facts, particularly with regards hardware designs where they can be confidently disproven, and only then when people persist in repeating implausible scenarios instead of agreeing to disagree will we take umbrage.
That's a rumour, completely unsubstantiated, and hard to justify through reason. That rumour needs discussing in the rumour thread and cannot be cited here as part of your argument because it cannot be discussed except as a rumour - it could well be categorically false.
Bagel seed
Veteran
That just proves Sony can catch up despite a stronger start from MS. The reverse is unlikely, because of the inherent support factor for Sony in the EU and other PAL territories. Plus, Japan. Though they might not even have interest in next gen consoles this time but we'll see.
Other hints tell us the Sony brand is stronger, like being able to sell more despite higher selling prices for the entire life of the console. This time it'll be like the tortoise and the hare starting the race at once.
It proves no such thing. It only proves that being significantly behind for the first years doesn't mean a platform is going to fail. It doesn't prove any platform can succeed in any context - success is a per platform issue affected by many factors. It doesn't prove Sony can always bounce back or the strength of either brand, yada yada.
Bagel seed
Veteran
Well, you could've just said that in your initial post There will always be context to take into consideration, so we can't make those blanket statements of whether or not B would apply to A if A applied to B.
There will always be context to take into consideration, so we can't make those blanket statements of whether or not B would apply to A if A applied to B.
I still cant help but feel if XB1 had just built a more powerful box instead of a Kinect focused weaker one, they wouldn't be in this pickle.
It's constantly from MS "well we need to justify". That's a red flag to me. That's the way Nintendo speaks about Wii U.
I still think XB1 can do well and even "win", but it feels like an uphill battle when it didn't need to be.
I could be wrong, the casuals may like Kinect enough to give it you know, 40% surplus of sales than it would have gotten as a core focused console. It may prove a smart move.
Part of me lately thinks that like Wuublet, Kinect is an actively bad thing. Like at any price, you are better off without it than with it. That 499 XB1 without Kinect is better than 499 Xbox with Kinect, even at the same specs.
It would just make the proposition a lot simpler. It could be that Kinect muddles things.
You could say Core drives early adoption and Kinect is not for them, but then I'd ask why Wii was such a hot property even early on.
But basically it's too early to really say. Early returns dont seem good though.
It's constantly from MS "well we need to justify". That's a red flag to me. That's the way Nintendo speaks about Wii U.
I still think XB1 can do well and even "win", but it feels like an uphill battle when it didn't need to be.
I could be wrong, the casuals may like Kinect enough to give it you know, 40% surplus of sales than it would have gotten as a core focused console. It may prove a smart move.
Part of me lately thinks that like Wuublet, Kinect is an actively bad thing. Like at any price, you are better off without it than with it. That 499 XB1 without Kinect is better than 499 Xbox with Kinect, even at the same specs.
It would just make the proposition a lot simpler. It could be that Kinect muddles things.
You could say Core drives early adoption and Kinect is not for them, but then I'd ask why Wii was such a hot property even early on.
But basically it's too early to really say. Early returns dont seem good though.
I think you're jumping to predictions. As you finish with, it's too early to tell. I suppose you recognise that's a gut feeling rather than a considered prediction.
It could be that PS3 gets the jump on XB1 with the core gamers buying into it quickly, but that MS is attractive to a far larger population than the core gamers thanks to offering more than just games, a segment Sony used to appeal to but which Sony has happily ignored for PS4's launch, and eventually XB1 sells far more than PS4. You suggest as much but seem unconvinced this could happen, yet the number of people who aren't core gamers vastly outnumber those who are. Sony managed to get gangbuster sales with PS2 thanks in part to appealing to SingStar and EyeToy fans and the like. Wii sold lots to non-core gamers. So a console that can appeal to both seems important in breaking the 100 million unit barrier.
Thing is, none of us can guess at the long term plans or the changes in strategy that can be brought about. Maybe Sony will secure the core at launch and then make a big push for the extended gamer in 2015+? Maybe Kinect won't get support and will fizzle out? Maybe Kinect will get some killer apps (virtual makeover type girlie apps, for example) and becomes the de facto platform of choice of family entertainment while Sony continues just satisfying the core gamer, and many hen-pecked gamers find themselves getting an XB1 to appease both halves of the family? It can go a lot of ways so I don't see value in trying to second-guess what'll happen. The only real predictions of value at this point is how the consoles will start. We do know that momentum is easier to maintain than instigate, so the platform that comes out the gates fastest has that advantage to long-term success whatever happens next.
D
Deleted member 11852
Guest
This is my guess. Your early customers are likely to be the core gamers, the people who visit gaming websites, watch E3 live streams, who live and breathe games. The folks who pre-order and want the new hardware as soon as they can get it. You pickup casual gamers over time as word spreads in other ways.
But why wait until 2015, what wrong with next year? Sony have proven themselves very good at cost reduction on hardware. If they can get their camera in the box from six months out, over the consoles life most folks will have cameras. If games or other applications appear that use it well (I'm skeptical myself), the core gamers are the ones who will splash out on it. Just like core PlayStation folks bought the Analogue controller then the Dual Shock controller.
I think Kinect is the only interesting concept of this generation. Both boxes are essentially closed midrange pcs and will have effectively similar visuals.
Extended controller mechanisms which include voice and motion are actually game changers that are being used on nearly every other consumer device... but television based voice control is probably the holy grail of those efforts. Instant switching between media is brilliant... I know I've always wanted it. I'm a.d.d. and I switch between tv, media, internet and games while I'm sitting in front of the tv. In fact I do it nearly every time I'm in front of the tv.
Bigus Dickus
Regular
I was thinking exactly the same thing. B3D isn't the place for this type of posting and will tire of it quickly.
Bagel seed
Veteran
A better comparison would be Move versus Wii. If Sony don't back a peripheral, no-one else is going to, and presently Sony have shown little interesting in supporting there extended gaming ideas as much as they'd need to. They failed utterly to capitalise on their opportunities with other devices. MS have shown completely the opposite degree of conviction by inventing new camera tech, bundling it with every box, and providing at least 4 motion games in the launch window plus an extended interface. MS will be getting the reputation of the extended experience from Day 1. If Sony enter 2 years later with even a better experience, consumer awareness will be difficult to win over. You could tell anyone considering getting a Wii that PS3 offers Move that's a better experience, yet you won't sway a single one of them in most likelihood.
It can all change, but the cards on the table now point to two distinct directions, neither of which can be easily and rapidly reversed. Within the launch year, XB1 can no more become the core gamers' platform of choice for AAA staples any more than PS4 can become the family friendly entertainment extravaganza. Well, XB1 could achieve that by ditching Kinect and selling cheaper, I guess. A redirection by Sony would need a load of software to be produced with a minimal time to completion exceeding a year.
This isn't strictly speaking true, at least for certain subsets of the core gamer population. Exclusives and a superior multiplayer platform could very easily make the XB1 the platform of choice for core FPS gamers. If Titanfall has CoD like sales, and if CoD only has dedicated servers on PC and XB1 (those are confirmed, but it's unclear what the status of PS4 multiplayer is), then the XB1 is going to win that segment over big, regardless of the price difference.
Forza gives them an early advantage with racing games too, and again we see unique multiplayer advantages. If that becomes a trend, you'd see multiplayer focused gamers gravitate toward the Live ecosystem. Just like they did this generation. If they ramp up quickly there, Sony won't be able to compete on that front due to network effects. That Xbox Live converts over and already has a significant advantage there gives MS a leg up.
And MS has a lot of timed exclusives for big franchise games. That has an impact for people that care more about that franchise than they do about platform.
Sony has some huge strengths in single player, and at least for now indie games, and I expect those to be significant drivers for the platform (though less so on the indie front). But the 'core gamer' isn't some monolithic thing. It isn't just about the case in general, but the specific differences the platforms offer for individual properties and genres. That's way more nuanced and can't be reduced down to 'price difference, Kinect.'
D
Deleted member 11852
Guest
We've had cameras since Sony launched the EyeToy (for PS2) ten years ago. Then we had the Wiimote (for Wii) and the SixAxis (for PS3) both in 2006. We then had the PlayStation Eye (for PS3) in 2007. Finally we had Move (for PS3) and Kinect (for Xbox 360) in 2010.
All of these were alternatives to traditional controllers. And all, have been lacklustre, whether being an optional extra for a console or bundled with. I'm not convinced the lack of adoption and tuning of controls for non-conventional controllers is about whether it's supported out of the box but more about them basically being unsuited for controlling the majority of mainstream games. How many Wii games shipped with cruddy Wiimote controls? Loads. How many PS3 games supported the SixAxis gyros? Few.
Microsoft are about to launch their second Kinect device, and Sony their third camera, and I've still not seen a single thing that makes me excited. I want to see how these cameras make the game experience better, not just different. Oh on Ryse I can use voice to tell my guys to charge. Or I can tap UP on the d-pad. Guess which I'll do every time? Yeah.. the one that's quickest.
Every new alternative control device is a promise of better games in the future. Well, it's been ten years. When is the future?
That sounds like something a Microsoft PR guy would say, what does it even mean? Isn't voice, part of the Kinect experience, only being supported on day one in certain launch territories? What does that do for Microsoft's reputation?
If Sony thought the PS Eye was important, why would they wait two years? I speculated six months. Sony make CCDs, optics and microphones, if anybody can crunch the cost of a device like PS Eye and bundle it in the box with minimal loss, it's Sony.
I think it likely that Sony intended to bundle the camera with the PS4 from the outset, but looked at the shit Microsoft took regarding Kinect, and decided to shelf it for a while, perhaps until they have some compelling software to sell it as a valued proposition.
And this is the problem for me with both offerings. Neither company have shown me anything which makes me want a camera attached to my console. Right now I have zero interest in voice controlling my console, TV or games. Show me a better experience in games and I'm in.
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