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I think you need to read the original quote again...
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/microsoft-exec-responds-to-xbox-ones-lack-of-backw/1100-6422847/
Does that help put it in better light?
Tommy McClain
Don't think that makes much difference. Playing the same downloaded executables requires emulation in the console. If they make it available as a streamed solution, there are going to be complications (worth discussing). Well, one complication. What would it cost to stream the games people already bought, and would that be passed on to the players? AFAIK Sony's solution is paid for, so you have the joy of paying to access content you already bought and paid for on the old machine. If it costs money to access that back catalogue of content, it's not really a solution to the problem. But then can MS afford to provide access to a streamed-game service for free? (of course they can, but should the suits go with it!)
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Deleted member 11852
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Well think of it from Sony or Microsoft's perspective. If they deploy a software backwards compatibility mode on your new console you're good to go at no cost to them beyond development. If they're providing a streaming solution then I'd expect them to want paying for that service and no matter how good, you're going to take a hit in fidelity and latency.
Still watching a *video* of a game created on the Internet rather than playing that game exactly like in the original machine is something deprived of magic to me, and a "not so good" experience compared to true emulation, which is almost an art, and a technical challenge.
For someone like me living in some forgotten lands and a mountainous region, where Internet isn't reliable -that's why I'd never touch Destiny with a stick, nor I miss Bungie-, that's even more true.
The future is not ours to see, but I just hope true emulation of the X360 becomes a reality some day. And I don't want it mainly to play AAA games, in fact most of the games I'd want to play are the really fun games (arcades, Call of Juarez 1, fighting games..,) I've gotten for the X360 back in the day.
From all the talk here over the past couple of years I see zero chance of full emulation on the XB1. So I think if I had the choice between 1) no full emulation & 2) streaming of last generation titles, I will choose 2 every time. Sorry you might not be able to partake in it, but for the majority of us that can, I suspect they will choose #2 as well.
Tommy McClain
Tommy McClain
Xbox Live Rewards members can get up to 15,000 Rewards Points if they pre-order up to 3 games on the Microsoft Store. Works on Xbox One & Xbox 360 games. [strike]They're also offering a $10 gift card with pre-order too.[/strike] That's about $45 of incentives on 3 games!
http://www.microsoftstore.com/store...goryID.67154000/pgm.95305600?WT.mc_id=rewards
EDIT: Ooops, you can't get $10 gift card if you get the rewards.
Tommy McClain
http://www.microsoftstore.com/store...goryID.67154000/pgm.95305600?WT.mc_id=rewards
EDIT: Ooops, you can't get $10 gift card if you get the rewards.
Tommy McClain
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The only issue is the term, it's not emulation, it is just streaming the actual game over the internet.
If I could... of course I could try that, but I am a romantic when it comes to devices. I like the actual devices, or actual emulation. Internet is.... like great, but everything is very virtual, like it doesn't belong to you, as if that game isn't yours.
That's the deal breaker for me, you don't control anything over there, and some people just like to have full control of things so any surprises or shortcomings are avoided, if possible.
If it were like the approach Blizzard took with Diablo 3 it might be more palatable. As of currently, there is a "community event" going on for an entire week which doubles the number of Treasure Goblins you meet in a game if you find one. Well.... it's an internet event, a community thing.
But the other day I mysteriously -no apparent reason- lost the connection and the community event remained active while I was playing offline. I was seeing Treasure Goblins in pairs and enjoying the game as if nothing happened.
Now you have Destiny where you can play solo but if the connection goes down your game is done. What's the point of that?
Any way this applies to Digital PreOrders? I just can't bring myself to buy physical anymore, regardless of the cost savings.
Getting into the semantics again, the quote from Phil doesn't say emulation he is talking about looking into solutions for those that want BC. A streaming service could be a solution if the insertion of the disc was the method for checking the ownership of the old title (for disc based games).
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Deleted member 11852
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Backwards compatibility and streaming are not semantic differences to the same problem but I agree on what Phil Spencer said which was:
Phil Spencer said:
As a prospective Xbox One owner I am not anticipating any non-streaming solution for playing Xbox 360 games. Neither PlayStation 4 or Xbox One are backwards compatible by the widely accepted definition
able to share data or commands with older versions of itself, or sometimes other older systems, particularly systems it intends to supplant. Sometimes backward compatibility is limited to being able to read old data but does not extend to being able to write data in a format that can be read by old versions.
Where I think there is scope for disappointment is that I believe that when people ask about backwards compatibility, that is exactly what they want. I.e, they want to be able to pop in a 360 game disc or download a digital purchase of 360 software and play it on their Xbox One with no strings attached, or the experience depending highly on the quality of their internet service.
I don't see anybody asking Microsoft for a Gaikai-like service similar to what Sony promised for PlayStation 4.
I suppose you could claim a difference between BC hardware and a BC 'platform', the 'platform' being a combination or hardware, software and services. BC on the 360 was through mostly software emulation, while PS4 BC is likely to be remotely accessed hardware BC.
It's all a bit fuzzy, imo.
Certainly, remotely run 360 (or PS3) content isn't going to provide the same kind of experience as a local executed last-gen content. And I think that's the main thing from an end user perspective.
It's all a bit fuzzy, imo.
Certainly, remotely run 360 (or PS3) content isn't going to provide the same kind of experience as a local executed last-gen content. And I think that's the main thing from an end user perspective.
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Deleted member 11852
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Sony aren't selling Gakkai as backwards compatibility, they are very clear on this here:
PlayStation®4 does not have backwards compatibility to play disc-based PS1, PS2, or PS3 games, but we will deliver a new cloud-based gaming service that PlayStation fans can enjoy.
As I posted above, a traditional backwards compatibility solution (local hardware/software) costs Microsoft little to nothing to maintain once developed but a streaming service will need upkeep on remote servers and will almost certainly come with a price tag.
Assuming Microsoft are going to pass on the costs of server upkeep, Is this backwards compatibility or renting old software you've already bought? I'd argue it's the latter.
Right, inevitably some people will end up with a worse experience.
Either way makes no odds really. PS3 was to get BC but it never really happened. Spencer 'looking into it' makes it pretty vacuous. I suppose that counts as a rumour, but it's not something I'd hold my breath for until it's announced, or better yet shown running with a roll-out plan.
The first US and Japan PS3 are supposed to play PS2 and PS1 games almost perfectly. Do you have any other experiences?
Not actually true. Look at any modern emulators out there - its is rarely the case that games "just work". You can go and find the forums that have the lists of support levels for (i.e. Working, working with issues, not working, etc.) each game has to be profiled which means analysing the operations as it runs through the system and then writing fixes for any (native) system specific calls that it may be making. The profiling of an emulator is a long and costly process and then you have to deal with support afterwards of cases that slip through the net. Having a tight control on the hardware, by having specifically designed cloud systems, can remove all this overhead.
And that's the assumption you're making. The comment is specifically relating people wanting BC, which does imply "I've bought this software, I want to use it on my new system".
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Deleted member 11852
Guest
Which emulators? I wouldn't my base my experiences of community efforts like MAME, Frodo or Dolphin as being representative of a solution provided by teams with all (published and unpublished) technical details of the original systems.
My assumption is indeed that people asking for "backwards compatibility" actually want "backwards compatibility" (by the accepted definition) and not some form of paid streaming service :yes2:
MAME is emulating many different arcade platforms and underlying hardware. Even ones with a single hardware platform being emulated have many levels of compatibility. With XBOX games running on XBOX 360 there is a big compatibility list of titles that work and don't work, all of these have to have been profiled:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Xbox_games_compatible_with_Xbox_360
The assumption is that such a service must be "paid" for in the context of offering a BC alternative/solution.
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Deleted member 11852
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I think there's a similar looking compatibility list for the early European PS3 models which included a PS2 GS but EE emulation was handled in software.The initial list of supported games for this model was updated once IIRC and never again.
I genuinely don't think Microsoft or Sony were really serious about backwards compatibility with their previous generation consoles, both offerings struck me minimum effort solutions. Ironically Sony did provide flawless software emulation of the original PlayStation on PS3. ePSXe was still patching fixes in 2012 so many games could even load.
It's like anything, if you make a half-hearted engineering attempt it'll require more maintenance to run. Engineer it right from the start and it'll require less, or no maintenance.
Servers aren't free and somebody has to pay for their upkeep. Perhaps Microsoft would bite all these costs. But until they launch a free service, that'll be my expectation.
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