News & Rumors: Xbox One (codename Durango)

[XpiderMX]

Microsoft's career website lists some of their studios. Though it looks like even MS haven't updated their website since they didn't add studios like Twisted Pixel Games.

http://www.microsoft-careers.com/content/ieb/ms-studios/

What I mean is the wikipedia article list some non-videogames studios

Basically, MS Studios (videogame focussed) are:

- 343 Industries
- Turn 10 Studios
- Rare LTD.
- Lionhead Studios
- Big Park Studios
- Good Science Studios
- Twisted Pixel
- Black Tusk Studios
- Microsoft Studios Victoria
- Press Play
- Lift London
- MS Studios KALE
- Soho Productions
- Xbox Live Production *
- Redmond Publishing *
- EMEA Publishing *

* third party titles

 

[AlphaWolf]

See, this is the thing - the people on the internet, ie. the diehard core gamers who frequent GAF, IGN, Gamespot, Eurogamer, PSN, TeamXbox etc are they merely a small (but vocal) minority with no real influence?

Or are they trendsetters who can play a crucial part in determing how the market at large perceives a console?

Forum warriors and game sites have near zero influence with the general public. Look at Wii and Kinect sales as evidence of the power of Gaf. Everyone there will swear up and down that they influence the decisions of friends and family, but that's either BS, overstated or still only adds up to a few thousands of buys. People debating the power of next gen consoles are insignificant to any future product sales. The general populace may not buy some product because of a perceived lack of something, but the likelihood that gaf had something to do with it is NIL.

 

[(((interference)))]

The Wikipedia info is wrong, there are less studios.

From Wiki:

Microsoft Studios contains twenty six studios worldwide, 21 for games development (343, Rare, Lionhead, Turn 10, Twisted Pixel and Black Tusk, which comprises multiple teams) and 5 for entertainment technology advancement and publishing:

 

[(((interference)))]

That would only point to the fact that there are a number of different reasons or circumstances that can lead to a weaker console/handheld outselling a more powerful offering. If there was a common factor/factors those factor/factors would be readily apparent and readily included with each assertion of "performance doesn't matter".

The more reasons or different circumstances you can show that leads to weaker hardware outselling stronger hardware, increases the likelihood that performance as an influential feature isn't as strong as we think across market segments.

Exactly, if the two machines were pretty identical in terms of features and pricing (as Durango and PS4 seem to be) then you'd expect people to get the more powerful one.

Plus, Durango might have non-features like used game blocking and no offline gameplay.

Forum warriors and game sites have near zero influence with the general public. Look at Wii and Kinect sales as evidence of the power of Gaf. Everyone there will swear up and down that they influence the decisions of friends and family, but that's either BS, overstated or still only adds up to a few thousands of buys. People debating the power of next gen consoles are insignificant to any future product sales. The general populace may not buy some product because of a perceived lack of something, but the likelihood that gaf had something to do with it is NIL.

It's not just power, also features and non-features like always online, used game blocking etc. And it's not just GAF, i'm talking about basically any gamer who cares enough to visit gaming sites to read news, reviews on a semi-regular basis nevermind all the gamers who participate or lurk in all the various gaming fora, of which GAF is only the tip of the iceberg.

These are most likely to be the early adopters, rather than the casuals or parents buying for their kids, and if there's a definite switch to the Sony camp you'd think this would create a network affect on later sales from the general public.

But this is all speculation, I really don't know what will happen.
It'll be our first real test of two very similar products (ie unlike the Wii situation) one disliked by the core, one not and so we can see whether or not that'll affect the larger sales standings.

 

[ERP]

Exactly, if the two machines were pretty identical in terms of features and pricing (as Durango and PS4 seem to be) then you'd expect people to get the more powerful one.
.

No I'd expect people to get the one with the games they play or the demonstrably better version of the games they play.
However I think that a minor deficit in that department can be overcome by other features.

People aren't buying the specs they are buying the experience, including all the associated software and features.
I would bet most console buyers couldn't even describe the hardware running the games they play.

 

[AlphaWolf]

It's not just power, also features and non-features like always online, used game blocking etc. And it's not just GAF, i'm talking about basically any gamer who cares enough to visit gaming sites to read news, reviews on a semi-regular basis nevermind all the gamers who participate or lurk in all the various gaming fora, of which GAF is only the tip of the iceberg.

These are most likely to be the early adopters, rather than the casuals or parents buying for their kids, and if there's a definite switch to the Sony camp you'd think this would create a network affect on later sales from the general public.

But this is all speculation, I really don't know what will happen.
It'll be our first real test of two very similar products (ie unlike the Wii situation) one disliked by the core, one not and so we can see whether or not that'll affect the larger sales standings.

Multiply gaf by 100 and you're still talking about statistical error for a years sales.

 

[rockaman]

That would only point to the fact that there are a number of different reasons or circumstances that can lead to a weaker console/handheld outselling a more powerful offering. If there was a common factor/factors those factor/factors would be readily apparent and readily included with each assertion of "performance doesn't matter".

The more reasons or different circumstances you can show that leads to weaker hardware outselling stronger hardware, increases the likelihood that performance as an influential feature isn't as strong as we think across market segments.

It's a pattern, but is it dependable enough to bank on? I don't think so.

There are also measurable confounding variables to talk about... I'll give one big confounding (and measurable) variable: price. Another one: release dates.

And let's not leave out the ambiguous parts about what is fair to call "more powerful." Did PS2 succeed because it was "more powerful" than the Dreamcast, or because it was "less powerful" than the Xbox and Gamecube? So which category does PS2 really fall in? And why didn't Dreamcast win the generation then? And which of these consoles is really most powerful since they all did one or the other thing better than one another?

Maybe it was it a combination of many factors? (YES)

Less power could be interdependent on other factors as well (cost, release date, available technology, etc), but that doesn't make it more important than those other factors, just because it's convenient and fashionable to say so. If anything, it makes it "less" valuable a measure, because it is too interdependent.

I think it's better to say success in the console arena has a lot to do with the good fortune of many pieces falling together in the right way and at the right time. If anything, the good fortune of massive developer support for the PS2 paved it's way to success. And I would attribute that to timing, media attention, the product itself, and consumer cost more than anything else.

To analyze any of these generations in terms of winning and losing conditions or whatever, would have to afford a case study of each generation, no less. There is too much change across generations. What did Xbox Live contribute to 360 which it did not to Xbox OG? So many questions like that which cannot be answered with a broad brush stroke.

 

[wco81]

Maybe MS is expecting Kinect 2 to be next generation's waggle.

BTW have they localized the speech recognition in Kinect to other languages?

 

[BRiT]

*AHEM* This is not a Versus thread nor is it a thread for WiiU nor is it a thread for PS4.

The next step is another round of bans.

 

[rockaman]

Diminishing returns will always be there and grow. But they also seem exaggerated a bit right now. There is still plenty of space for graphics to improve. GI lacking in UE4 for next gen should speak to that effect no? Same with all the glorious face demos of recent.

Its also alleged (by impress watch) that Cerny said launch games won't utilise unique APU features. But getting too far off topic anyhow...

I'm certain 720 will be capable anyhow.. I'm not really worried about that. If someone told me today the next Halo would compete graphically with the best games in two years I don't see a good enough reason not to believe it.

 

[dagamer]

All decent points and I'm pretty much the power bandwagon guy anyway BUT

The PS4 reveal didn't really wow me at all. The only real game was Shadowfall and it looked like a super super shiny current gen game. This has led me to wonder if diminishing returns are really starting to kick in. If they are, it can make the powerful factor that much less relevant.

I also think you underestimate Kinect and how MS will be able to entice more casuals in general.

All that said, more is needed to be known before I can make conclusions. We havent seen a single Durango game yet, and only early PS4 software.

Again, PS3 was perceived as more powerful than 360. Did not have smashing success.

Every face off in last gen had Xbox beating PS2, as well. I remember those times, there wasn't a DF back then, but IGN had a feature called head2head I would look at, Xbox virtually always won among consoles.

A few things though (I'm not trying to be overly critical):
1) The PS2 launched 18 months before the Xbox and was basically snubbed in Japan at a time when most blockbusters were from Japanese developers. They had no reason to make Xbox games.
2) The sheer number of exclusive games on the PS2 basically neutered the Xbox.
3) Because of point 2, DF face-off comparisons mattered little.
4) If you're posting on B3D, I don't think there's anything from a hardware or game stand point that could have wowed you. It's not that the PS4 games looked like shiny PS3 games, it's that they looked like PC games running on high-end hardware (which arguably they probably were at the PS Meeting in Feb.).

This next-generation will be weird because both consoles are launching at the same time which I don't think has ever happened before. It leads to people making direct comparisons without the influence of "well my best pal got XYZ system so I should too". Everyone can switch at the same time.

 

[bkilian]

Maybe MS is expecting Kinect 2 to be next generation's waggle.

BTW have they localized the speech recognition in Kinect to other languages?

Kinect does voice reco in quite a number of languages, not counting dialects (US English has 9 regional dialects for Kinect's purposes) and variants (US English, UK English). English, French, German, Italian, Japanese and Spanish, with multiple variants of english, french, and spanish.

 

[Tap In]

A few things though (I'm not trying to be overly critical):
1) The PS2 launched 18 months before the Xbox and was basically snubbed in Japan at a time when most blockbusters were from Japanese developers. They had no reason to make Xbox games.
2) The sheer number of exclusive games on the PS2 basically neutered the Xbox.
3) Because of point 2, DF face-off comparisons mattered little.
4) If you're posting on B3D, I don't think there's anything from a hardware or game stand point that could have wowed you. It's not that the PS4 games looked like shiny PS3 games, it's that they looked like PC games running on high-end hardware (which arguably they probably were at the PS Meeting in Feb.).

This next-generation will be weird because both consoles are launching at the same time which I don't think has ever happened before. It leads to people making direct comparisons without the influence of "well my best pal got XYZ system so I should too". Everyone can switch at the same time.

yes people forget Xbox 1 didn't even have EA sports games for the first what? two, three years?

things have changed

 

[DuckThor Evil]

yes people forget Xbox 1 didn't even have EA sports games for the first what? two, three years?

things have changed

I think your memory is playing a prank on you. I'm pretty sure it had 2002 versions and as it was released so late in 2001, it kind of missed the boat on 2001 versions. Euro launch in March 2002 had NHL already though.

 

[Tap In]

I think your memory is playing a prank on you. I'm pretty sure it had 2002 versions and as it was released so late in 2001, it kind of missed the boat on 2001 versions. Euro launch in March 2002 had NHL already though.

No EA was MIA. Pretty sure it was first year at least that EA sports was not on the platform . Thats the main reason MS had their sports brands and dropped them the year EA came on board.

Either Sony made them lock it down or nobody had any faith in Xbox first year

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Kinect does voice reco in quite a number of languages, not counting dialects (US English has 9 regional dialects for Kinect's purposes) and variants (US English, UK English). English, French, German, Italian, Japanese and Spanish, with multiple variants of english, french, and spanish.

Do you have feedback on Kinect's success with thick UK regional accents? Is it okay with Glaswegian English (that most English folk can't comprehend!) or thick southwest accents? Or immigrant English (Indian, Polish accents on English)? Or speech impediments? You'll have the same in the US of course and differences between other country's variations on the same language. Are there statistics on robustness? Voice recognition as an optional extra like Kinect won't adversely impact the experience, but if your platform depends on it and a significant percentage of potential users can't be understood, that's going to present a negative image to the public and deter adoption.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

No EA was MIA. Pretty sure it was first year at least that EA sports was not on the platform . Thats the main reason MS had their sports brands and dropped them the year EA came on board.

Either Sony made them lock it down or nobody had any faith in Xbox first year

What is this then?

http://www.ign.com/articles/2001/11/09/madden-nfl-2002-4

The review is dated November 8, 2001

edit: Now I remember though. There was quite a long period of time where you couldn't play EA games on Xbox Live.

 

[dobwal]

Maybe MS is expecting Kinect 2 to be next generation's waggle.

BTW have they localized the speech recognition in Kinect to other languages?

No MS wants Kinect 2 to be next generation's touch screen with implications that goes beyond gaming. Its remote touch. The voice recognition handled by servers (like Siri) makes sense because their phones, auto OS (when online connnection become common place in autos) and PCs can also make use of it. Furthermore, Kinect cameras commonly replacing webcams in the CE products would be a boon for MS.

MS has motivation to take Kinect 2 far beyond being just next generation's waggle.

 

[wco81]

Right, then in the context of that logic, they should divert some of the BOM for K2, even if it means not allocating as much of the BOM for CPU, GPU, RAM.

 

[bkilian]

Do you have feedback on Kinect's success with thick UK regional accents? Is it okay with Glaswegian English (that most English folk can't comprehend!) or thick southwest accents? Or immigrant English (Indian, Polish accents on English)? Or speech impediments? You'll have the same in the US of course and differences between other country's variations on the same language. Are there statistics on robustness? Voice recognition as an optional extra like Kinect won't adversely impact the experience, but if your platform depends on it and a significant percentage of potential users can't be understood, that's going to present a negative image to the public and deter adoption.

Yes. Not really. No. No. Yes.
As a person with a non-supported accent, I have found that Kinect basically trains you to use the accent that works.

There are a number of irritations with the system as it is currently engineered, for one, your speech database is based on your live locale. So if you are in the US, you get US English, even if you're British, and we have a UK English that would work a lot better for you. I've americanized my speech when using the media controls and it now works quite well, although it makes my wife laugh at me sometimes.

I'm talking here about the local speech recognition. Cloud recognition, like the Bing searches, is a lot more robust and surprisingly accurate, even with accents that are quite thick.