Wii U hardware discussion and investigation *rename

[bgassassin]

To add to what Tottentranz is saying about the case size change, when Iwata first showed the Revolution he said that they planned to make the case even smaller to about the thickness of 3 stacked DVD cases. Just because they showed the concept at E3 doesn't mean it will stay that way. If heat shows itself to be an issue, they will change it before mass production.

I imagine that this is the sort of news that we have been waiting for. Does it sound like TSMC's new 28nm manufacturing process will be available to Nintendo considering an expected february availability:

http://www.dailytech.com/Nextgeneration+28nm+GPUs+Could+Be+45+Percent+Faster/article23158.htm

They would use NEC, not TSMC. NEC is a part of the 28nm alliance.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/other/...oin_IBM_in_28nm_Process_Tech_Development.html

 

[TheWretched]

I'll advise you to be more careful when trying to put false statements into other people's mouths.

I dismissed (and still do) your speculation that the case size stays the same because Nintendo itself has stated that the current form isn't the final one.
Never have I "speculated" that the case will be "way bigger". In fact, I've made no speculation whatsoever to the case's size.

Where should I begin... you know what... I won't even bother and just reiterate what I said before. There's little reasons for us to speculate that the design will change more than just a bit. Not just reason, there's no indication that it will. Iwata would say what he said even if the box stayed exactly the same. This is PR speak, as always. Just changing one screw will qualify is "changed, thus not final". And in most cases, the design shown a year before usually is quite final. PS3 lost HDMI ports and whatnot and got a different controller, but the looks and size stayed the same.

 

[Teasy]

They're gonna need it to control heat and power in that chassis.

Well that depends how powerful the console is now doesn't it

 

[AlphaWolf]

Why?

Because they probably want to have launch titles. Unless by 'major hardware overhaul' you really meant something like, clocked slightly higher. Also they are probably going to need to be in production of physical units several months before launch, time is very short for anything not cosmetic.

<edit> as for the speculation about them using 28nm, there's just no reason to believe that Nintendo would gamble on it. They are launching 1 year or more ahead of their competitors, they know they won't be competitive in performance when Sony/MS launch their next gen. There's just no reason to push the envelope to be slightly closer behind their competition at the cost of profitability.

 

[sfried]

<edit> as for the speculation about them using 28nm, there's just no reason to believe that Nintendo would gamble on it. They are launching 1 year or more ahead of their competitors, they know they won't be competitive in performance when Sony/MS launch their next gen. There's just no reason to push the envelope to be slightly closer behind their competition at the cost of profitability.

Actually considering the circumstances now surrounding the Wii and with the 3DS being sold at a slight loss, I would be surprised if they did slightly push the tech ahead in order to win the appeasment of more 3rd party developers and publishers.

As to launch titles, I thought most liekly they will have the system out late November?

 

[AlphaWolf]

Actually considering the circumstances now surrounding the Wii and with the 3DS being sold at a slight loss, I would be surprised if they did slightly push the tech ahead in order to win the appeasment of more 3rd party developers and publishers.

Because that's working out so well for their bottom line?

As to launch titles, I thought most liekly they will have the system out late November?

And if they want to have titles then, it'd probably be best to have some idea what the hardware is going to be before this point.

 

[Teasy]

Because that's working out so well for their bottom line?

Yes, results would have been much worse if they'd been left with millions of 3DS units gathering dust in a warehouse somewhere, not to mention lower game sales.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Yes, results would have been much worse if they'd been left with millions of 3DS units gathering dust in a warehouse somewhere, not to mention lower game sales.

so you feel their experience with the 3ds tells them the wii:u will be a failure and they should start bailing in advance of the launch?

 

[bgassassin]

And if they want to have titles then, it'd probably be best to have some idea what the hardware is going to be before this point.

I don't know the context you are using "this point" in, but the final Wii dev kits didn't go out till as early as six months before launch so that would mean devs may not have Wii U final kits till January at the soonest if that's any indication.

Side note: I get the feeling the launch gap between Nintendo and Sony/MS won't be as big as some believe. This is why I think they should launch no later that September. At the same time using 28nm wouldn't be much of a gamble if they aren't using TSMC to make it. After all I've always thought it was strange IBM said what process the CPU would use, but AMD didn't for the GPU. Nintendo likes their secrecy and they might very well be targeting 28nm, but if it doesn't work out then they haven't put themselves in a compromising position to the public expectations.

 

[Teasy]

so you feel their experience with the 3ds tells them the wii:u will be a failure and they should start bailing in advance of the launch?

What are you talking about?

I just said that lowering the price of 3DS wasn't the reason for their bad financial results, a simple point which should be easily understood..

 

[AlNom]

At the same time using 28nm wouldn't be much of a gamble if they aren't using TSMC to make it.

You've mentioned NEC before but are you sure they even have the appropriate 28nm tech ready (high performance, not low power) or even the supply capacity that Nintendo requires? You're making a number of assumptions here I think.

And if they want to have titles then, it'd probably be best to have some idea what the hardware is going to be before this point.

Well, hardware power is one thing, but I thought part of Nintendo's problem is getting the controller to work as intended. Wasn't there a rumour about them having issues there? *shrug*

 

[bgassassin]

All those 01.net rumors seemed to have been based on old info. E3 showed the controller were working just fine. And when they released the specs on the dev kit, apparently devs had already had them for a few months.

You've mentioned NEC before but are you sure they even have the appropriate 28nm tech ready (high performance, not low power) or even the supply capacity that Nintendo requires? You're making a number of assumptions here I think.

LOL. Remember the whole idea started as (and still is) a hypothesis.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1586097&postcount=263

So really everything I've said is an assumption so to speak, just with as much supporting info as I can find. Of course I don't know if they do or not. But considering they are a part of the alliance that developed 28nm, it would be tough to assume they wouldn't have the capability. The point of the alliance was to accomplish that process in an affordable manner for all who would use it. At the same time we don't know when they would go into full production so who knows if it would be an issue at that time.

 

[AlNom]

Right, well, we don't even know if they are sampling or even developing the right 28nm process that Nintendo requires for a medium to high end part (not mobile/ low power), and with less than a year away, it's a tough assumption to hope for at the moment without any news since 2009 (as far as I know).

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Right, well, we don't even know if they are sampling or even developing the right 28nm process that Nintendo requires for a medium to high end part (not mobile/ low power), and with less than a year away, it's a tough assumption to hope for at the moment without any news since 2009 (as far as I know).

I think a 1TFLOPS GPU from AMD using VLIW5 or VLIW4 in mid-2012 can hardly be considered medium-end, much less high-end..

Furthermore, isn't 28nm LP going to be ready before 28nm HP?
I remember the rumours of Southern Islands having relatively low clocks and therefore being able to use LP transistors and gaining time with that.
Is there anything stopping Nintendo from using a 28LP GPU, considering a Q3 2012 launch?

 

[AlNom]

I think a 1TFLOPS GPU from AMD using VLIW5 or VLIW4 in mid-2012 can hardly be considered medium-end, much less high-end..

The point is the type of transistor and what sort of GPU you Nintendo folks are asking for. This isn't some low power mobile part you're asking for.

Furthermore, isn't 28nm LP going to be ready before 28nm HP?

Indeed.

Is there anything stopping Nintendo from using a 28LP GPU, considering a Q3 2012 launch?

The gracious demands for a decently clocked or sufficiently powered part from fans. Didn't you folks start saying it was no problem to put a 4890 or 5770 or 69xx class part in there? This is not something you achieve on LP without billions of transistors.

 

[Teasy]

You folks? Do you think all Nintendo fans hang around in a massive room somewhere and make joint posts.

 

[AlNom]

Y'all look alike. So sue me. :3

 

[Teasy]

Not offended or anything, just thought it was hilarious.

The way you brought up an idea you got from some other Nintendo fans as if it was somehow attributable to him as well because he likes Nintendo

 

[AlNom]

All jokes, of course. But anyways, LP is for like... low power parts that don't make sense for Nintendo's console here, maybe for 3DS or something, but not this.

 

[stiftl]

Why not? Frequencies won't be higher than I say around 700 Mhz (729 Mhz if the use 3x multiplier for Wii backwards compability) and low power is always a good thing in such a relatively small case.

Other topic: What are the changes that WiiU will have a 3 core CPU as rumored but also Broadway as a companion core for Wii backwards compability (+they could use it for the OS)