*spin-off* idTech Related Discussion

[Rangers]

There are new Game Informer cover story pics out..

Slightly mixed bag, at least some of the shots look downright awesome imo..

Definitely a top tier graphical game on consoles, and at 60 FPS! Id proves themselves again I suppose..

Revisiting the ever popular DVD vs Blu Ray argument, Carmack says they would have loved to make Rage three DVD's/one Blu Ray, but it doesn't easily split up that way so it will be two DVD's (two wastelands). However Doom 4 will likely be 3 DVD's, as it can be split up that way.

Carmack:
PC: Higher res, more AA, but essentially the same game across all four platforms.
PS3 "There's a little bit more theoretical raw performance on the PS3, so we've got a little bit more headroom" <<(possibly one of the most positive PS3 quotes from a multiplatform dev I've ever heard)
360 "The 360 was easier to certainly get to where we are right now. More sweat equity had to be put into the PS3"

-Game will not be like Doom3 where you beat it and walk away. Designed so you can go back and get achievements, compete for best lap times, explore, etc after beating it.
-Release "when it's done" but "making good progress"
-How big will it be? "It's as big as it needs to be to be cool. Doom 3 was too long, you always want to give people a fun, focused experience"

 

[RenegadeRocks]

Anyways, that GI article says, the only difference in th e PC version is the increased AA and Resolution !

Does that mean the Console versions will have the same 16 X Anistropic Filtering and Higher res textures as the PC version ?!?!?!?

I thought the Mega Texturing means no-limits on the the layering of textures on an model, without any affect on the memory usage, creating a highly detailed look. Does it also mean Free AF and Higher res textures ? If yes, then it would be first of its kind as I don't see any game with AF this gen(at least, the ones I bought).

 

[_phil_]

Does that mean the Console versions will have the same 16 X Anistropic Filtering

Not sure how megatexture handles filtering ,if any.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

I have complete trust in Carmack's ability to solve that.

Actually, he's been quite conscious about it with Doom3, so it's reasonable to assume that he'll pay attention to it with tech 5 too. The man does care about image quality...

 

[Laa-Yosh]

I thought the Mega Texturing means no-limits on the the layering of textures on an model, without any affect on the memory usage, creating a highly detailed look. Does it also mean Free AF and Higher res textures ? If yes, then it would be first of its kind as I don't see any game with AF this gen(at least, the ones I bought).

That's an interesting question... they do have to access the maps with their own code AFAIK, can't rely on automatic mip mapping and such - so they might be able to optimize the virtual memory system to support AF as well...

 

[_phil_]

I have complete trust in Carmack's ability to solve that.

it's already solved.I was just pointing out that it's no traditional method.

 

[Neb]

360 users might need 3 discs due to limited use of disc space for gamedata + cant be heavily compressed.. However PC gamers can have it in 2 discs as it is compressed and expands upon installation. 2 disc would be roughly 16-18GB of compressed data that would expand upon installation.

Also please tesselation like Quake III and cvar for it... becouse I get some FEAR vibes here and it aint good.

Bring it on (although the more I hear and see the less interesting this game seems). I have had a Blu-Ray/HD-DVD player for my PC since a year back and 640GB HDD.

 

[AzBat]

2 DVDs for Rage, but 3 DVDs for Doom 4 according to Carmack here...

http://www.gamezine.co.uk/news/game...lu-ray-advantage-rage-and-doom-4-$1312938.htm

Tommy McClain

 

[nAo]

AF is certainly doable, though it might require to individually fetch all samples and accumulate them together in a shader (dunno how megatexture is really implemented at id). If they need an almost purely software solution then might even use rip maps

 

[betan]

Carmack says 360 version of rage is up to 3 times faster than PS3

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=220530
(via Edge)

MOD EDIT: Read this before posting.

 

[AlNom]

Sounds like problems with the SPUs...

 

[Butta]

Wow... they say the rasterizer is a little slower and then mention the framerate to be 3 x worse... seems like some optimizations aren't in yet. We have seen this type of disparity only in first gen titles but a 10-15% decrease seems to be the norm in current titles. Wonder if the Sony ninjas will be flown in.

 

[patsu]

From his quote:

"The PS3 lags a little bit behind in terms of getting the performance out of it," John Carmack told Edge. "The rasteriser is just a little bit slower - no two ways about that.

He's just saying the PS3 development lags behind 360. They still need to offload more stuff to the SPUs (The usual PS3 development paradigm):

"The RSX is slower than what we have in the 360. The CPU is about the same, but the 360 makes it easier to split things off, and that's what a lot of the work has been, splitting it all into jobs on the PS3," he said.

Otherwise, it's 1 PPU + partial SPU utilization vs 3 XCPU units. ^_^

Plus the RSX is slower.

 

[patsu]

The PS3 textures on Blu-ray are better because of the extra storage. So they may be trying to take advantage of the native strength of each platform. This is what I hope to see (He mentioned the SPUs have slightly more headroom in earlier interviews).

Carmack is talking about a snapshot of the build. We'll have to wait and see how their final system turns out.

 

[liolio]

From his quote:

He's just saying the PS3 development lags behind 360. They still need to offload more stuff to the SPUs (The usual PS3 development paradigm):



Otherwise, it's 1 PPU vs 3 XCPU units. ^_^

Plus the RSX is slower.

It still doesn't add up with is previous comments about more "head room" on the ps3.
I don't think they are still at the "1 PPU vs 3 XCPU" point , he states that the same CPU wise it's more or less the same and a lot of the work has been (past tense) to split things (most likely to work on the SPU).

Thus I wonder if they were some early miss reported comments, like they have more headroom on the ps3 to reach their performances goals. Or as Carmack is indeed clever he know what fans want to hear PR wise and thus tried to gain some steam/mindshare.

Anyway we are more than six months away from launch, those issues should be mostly fixed by then.

 

[patsu]

It just means that the headroom is there, but they are lagging behind in PS3 implementation. It's not the first time Carmack talk about all these platform merits and demerits.

 

[liolio]

Anyway it looks like ID put quiet some work on the CPU side of thing, I wonder if they just realise a bit late that they will have to get their hands more involved in RSX low level API.
It's not about potential it's about taking time to make it happens. If it comes down to GPU low level optimizations I would not call that "potential".

Between the article speak about four DVD and they are misslead, ID stated not that along ago Rage would be 2 DVD (one per waste land).
On the other side Doom may come on 3 dvd.

 

[patsu]

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/carmack-blu-ray-is-advantageous-for-rage-and-doom-4

Upcoming id title Doom 4 will "almost certainly" come on three discs, Carmack told GameInformer in an interview, as reported by VG247, although the studio is working on compression methods that will enable RAGE to ship on just two, since the nature of the game doesn't suit more than that.

He reiterated similar platform development status in the gamesindustry link:

"The 360 was easier to certainly to get to where we are now. More sweat equity had to be put into the PS3," said the id creative director.

"There's a little bit more theoretical raw performance on the PS3, so we've got a little bit more headroom."

The 60fps may refer to the rasterizer only. The final game may have lower framerate as a whole. It's probably easier to wait for the final specs. Won't be reading sensational reporting, if they use the same tactics for the full interview to draw traffic.

 

[liolio]

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/carmack-blu-ray-is-advantageous-for-rage-and-doom-4

He reiterated similar platform development status in the gamesindustry link:

The 60fps may refer to the rasterizer only. The final game may have lower framerate because of other subsystems.

They would better achieve consistent performances as they plan to actually sell their engine.
Rage and Doom 4 have to be a showcase on every system available.

For the rasterizer comment I wonder if J.C just simply mean the GPU.

 

[Neb]

This was also interesting and explains the better perfomance the 360 has as the PS3 Cell would have to pick up the graphical slack and might then come short for other task for this 60fps game. However I expect them to downgrade visuals etc rather than drop the 60fps ball.

The RSX is slower than what we have in the 360. The CPU is about the same, but the 360 makes it easier to split things off, and that's what a lot of the work has been, splitting it all into jobs on the PS3," he said.