Old Discussion Thread for all 3 motion controllers

[liolio]

I wouldn't believe everything you read on the internet

I don't trust strangers ...

But I still agree with Chris1515 Ms recent track record push me to be suspicious. I'm still iffy ok for the games that were designed in a way that you have to stand still. But the UI it would be so easy to demonstrate it on a couch and that would utterly kill this "rumour".

 

[obonicus]

They're probably convinced they can iron out these issues by release.

 

[Scott_Arm]

On IGN US has updated the article:

The solution is easy let the press try Kinect while sitting. I smell something fishy.

Annoying. Hopefully this is properly addressed at some point before it goes on sale.

 

[chris1515]

Annoying. Hopefully this is properly addressed at some point before it goes on sale.

If they have problem to track the skeleton when people sitting on a couch, they can use the RGB camera to recognize the hand movement.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The RGB camera can have similar differentiation difficulties due to limited contrast. EyeToy didn't work with pale skin against a pale blue wall. There are things people can do, like fill the room with light, but these things need to be seemless. Eurogramers review of Your In The Movies had them struggling to the the lighting to work. IR depth perception should have been the solution to these problems, and I hope it still is, but then I was expecting time-off-flight cameras. I can imagine cameras monitoring a projected pattern having a lot more issues.

At this point though, we really need someone to actually sit down and try it. In fact we've had this with the earliy Natal racing, no? I don't remember anyone complaining when they sat down to play the retrofitted Forza or whatever it was, steering with their hands.

 

[Scott_Arm]

If they'd just force the users to inject themselves with radioactive materials to make them glow, this wouldn't be a problem.

 

[AzBat]

If they'd just force the users to inject themselves with radioactive materials to make them glow, this wouldn't be a problem.

LOL, yeah. I guess we'll just have to settle for the IR emitter that lights the room up. At most everyone will need to wear reflective tape.

Tommy McClain

 

[draconian]

$150? I find it hard to believe MS will release it at that price. If it's $150, than it has to come packing with tons of games (at least 2). I could also envision a scenario where they do release it at $150 then make quick price drops in the later months. This way MS could make a quick buck on the early adopters. In fact, this could be the ideal scenario.

But let's assume for the case that $150 is out of necessity because of the actual build costs. Has anyone done an estimate?

1 rgb CMOS sensor @ 640 x 480 is $10?
1 IR light sensor ~ $10
1 Depth CMOS sensor ~ $10
1 multi-array microphone ~ $2?
1 electric motor ~ $1
1 power source ~ $3

total cost = under $40.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I always hate cost breakdowns because they completely ignore R&D costs, especially on the software side. To be honest, I don't think $150 is that bad. You pay once, and that's it. Compare to Wii and Move, it's about $50-75 worth of controllers for each player. Guess it depends how many people you intend to use it with.

 

[liolio]

$150? I find it hard to believe MS will release it at that price. If it's $150, than it has to come packing with tons of games (at least 2). I could also envision a scenario where they do release it at $150 then make quick price drops in the later months. This way MS could make a quick buck on the early adopters. In fact, this could be the ideal scenario.

But let's assume for the case that $150 is out of necessity because of the actual build costs. Has anyone done an estimate?

1 rgb CMOS sensor @ 640 x 480 is $10?
1 IR light sensor ~ $10
1 Depth CMOS sensor ~ $10
1 multi-array microphone ~ $2?
1 electric motor ~ $1
1 power source ~ $3

total cost = under $40.

That not that costly vs Move, as you can experience multi player without added costs. Till cheaper would be better.

 

[Graham]

....

That really doesn't matter too much. The R&D cost for kinect would likely have been enormous, and will likely be the more significant cost for a while.
Not forgetting the marketing budget...

 

[Alkohallick]

Kinect works sitting down. False alarm.

"There has been some confusion about this, but Microsoft assured us that you can sit down while using Kinect. The company wants you to be able to relax and enjoy using your Xbox 360, so it says you definitely won't have to stand while watching a movie."

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/109/1099467p1.html

If their going for damage control this part of the statement still has me worried. Of coarse i don't expect to have to stand to watch a movie, but what about playing games?

 

[Scott_Arm]

If their going for damage control this part of the statement still has me worried. Of coarse i don't expect to have to stand to watch a movie, but what about playing games?

Well, I'm sure some games would require you to stand, regardless of whether it was a technical limitation or not. If you have to use your hips, feet or torso movement, it's pretty much guaranteed you'll have to stand. If they're tracking just your arms and head, and it's something that you could in theory play sitting down, hopefully you'll be able to sit while you do it, and that's where the mixed messages are confusing. That would be the same situation for the UI control, where you seem to only require hand movement.

 

[dragonelite]

Cant they just do menu navigation with the RGB camera. At least from what i saw in a video in this thread someone made a move kind of software for webcam that seemed good enough in my eyes for menu navigation.

 

[chris1515]

http://kotaku.com/5565777/xbox-kinect-does-not-play-well-with-couch-potatoes

Kotaku confirm what IGN said before with more details, they ask to the forza team to play while sitting.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I really don't understand why they would bother with the UI navigation if you had to stand to use it. Sure, the voice commands would still be good. It's nice to be able to pause quickly as you're running to answer the phone. But if you need a controller to navigate the menus while sitting anyway, then what's the point? The remote is already in your hands or sitting very close.

As for games, it would definitely limit augmentation of traditional games. Essentially, it becomes a standing full-body platform only. I'm not sure that's a deal breaker, because it's the main reason you'd be buying the thing anyway, but it's definitely a strike against the peripheral if true. A good boxing game will still sell me on this thing.

One thing I'm not sure about in the Kotaku speculation is why it might have problems. Body occlusion shouldn't be the issue here, and if it is, Kinect has much bigger problems than detecting people sitting down.

 

[obonicus]

I always hate cost breakdowns because they completely ignore R&D costs, especially on the software side. To be honest, I don't think $150 is that bad. You pay once, and that's it. Compare to Wii and Move, it's about $50-75 worth of controllers for each player. Guess it depends how many people you intend to use it with.

It's expensive for a lot of people (or rather, it's a big number on the price tag), but you're right that it isn't that outrageous. I just paid more than that for a fight stick controller and I suck at fighting games. As much as I don't like the games Kinect has shown, I realize I'll probably get it sometime after launch.

 

[obonicus]

One thing I'm not sure about in the Kotaku speculation is why it might have problems. Body occlusion shouldn't be the issue here, and if it is, Kinect has much bigger problems than detecting people sitting down.

It makes me think of Your Shape -- it kinda looked like they were dealing with the point cloud directly. I'd sort of like to see someone (a journalist, naturally) 'test' to see how well the blob thing on screen can differentiate limbs.

 

[Alkohallick]

Have any of the games shown so far for Kinect have the ability for 4 players?

I ask because I keep seeing people do price comparisons and if 2 people is the limit for Kinect then the 150 price tag matches/beats sony's move offering (for 2 people+eye toy)

 

[RobertR1]

I wanna how know many Christmas wishes have been changed over to "wishing Kinect's failure" at this point.

If I have to stand up for sports/activity games, I'll manage. I'll also wait until Nov for the final product. Plenty of time to sharpen the pitchfork ends.