PowerVR SGX543

[Panajev2001a]

I think one of the key problems with SGX543 for a console is probably that the ALU ratio isn't forward-looking enough. It's certainly fine for tommorow's handhelds and today's games, but I'm skeptical it makes sense for a next-gen console coming out in 2012(?) with programmers writing shaders explicitly for it. If they were aiming for a console deal, I'd much rather expect them to be pitching a more customized core.

Also... 'maybe more PPE's and SPE's' - maybe?! Now I see what Ailuros means when he says you're vastly underestimating next-generation requirements

Yeah, as I was saying to him earlier on... that might be due to me being depressed enough for other reasons and that might be taking a shroud of doom and gloom over the tech race due to some other competitor's tech push...


Still Arun, with the way manufacturing technology is going... manufacturers' dreams for a next-generation's performance requirements and what will be affordable to manufacture... well they might be two different things.

Look at PS3 even... if they could afford to be as bullish as they were earlier as far as manufacturing tech quickly reducing the cost of components down with time... you would have seen a much bigger CELL BE and maybe something called RS as the GPU. Die-size wise the CELL BE was not certainly the monster someone expected it to be.

If they launch a 300+ mm^2 CPU in 45 nm or 32 nm they do not have many die shrinks around the corner to cut manufacturing costs (and each new manufacturing process comes at a big premium).

MCM's in consoles?

We will see .

 

[Entropy]

I haven't the vaguest idea about high end consoles yet, because I'd say that none of them has been closed yet. The only IHV I'd dare to say is out of the equasion is Intel due to the extreme higher consumption for the performance level manufacturers are asking for.

High-end consoles? A contradiction in terms.
My point was that the stationary console is a consumer entertainment device. Trends in the PC GPU market in terms of feature set and power draw do not necessarily make sense in console space - indeed, the mismatch is obvious.

 

[darkblu]

linear scaling? sign me up. i'd love to have my next desktop card host multiple 543s.

 

[Ailuros]

High-end consoles? A contradiction in terms.

Compared to a handheld console not a contradiction at all. Each market has its own low to high end barriers and it's quite irrelevant if f.e. a high end mobile GPU is barely equal to a mainstream PC GPU.

My point was that the stationary console is a consumer entertainment device. Trends in the PC GPU market in terms of feature set and power draw do not necessarily make sense in console space - indeed, the mismatch is obvious.

Power draw is truly one of the primary headaches, but it affetcs IMO mostly the amount of units and/or frequency for a console GPU. Featuresets are normally quite high on console GPUs when they appear, irrelevant if the PC GPUs surpass them in that regard in the blink of an eye.

linear scaling? sign me up. i'd love to have my next desktop card host multiple 543s.

I'm sure you meant future SoC

 

[tangey]

The register has picked up on the story and have a short report on the keynote that IMG gave yesterday and are making a link between these announcements and the much fabled Apple tablet. Given that Apple is rumoured to have already ordered 10" screens for a product later this year, its far to early for it to be anything multi-cored from IMG, IMO. But it is highly likely that the some of the variations of multi-core SGX ARE targetted at Apple products

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03/18/sgx543mp/

Extract:-
"Without any intervention by the application - and, more importantly, without any intervention by the application's developer - the driver will pass data to an "MP code scheduler," which will in turn pass that data to one pipeline scheduler per core, which will then pass it to one thread scheduler per multi-threaded processing engine, which will then manage the threads through the engines as they process the graphics data.In other words, the SGX543 can have any number of cores from two to sixteen with no change in the driver software or the application."

 

[Ailuros]

I thought that 10" Apple device was slated for release for H2 2009? Assuming it contains IMG IP isn't it way too early to use SGX543 or even 543MP?

Apple's 10" tablet/netbook or whatever it'll end up being, needs primarily a certain amount of raw fillrate and that's already there with a SGX535 or SGX540.

 

[tangey]

I thought that 10" Apple device was slated for release for H2 2009? Assuming it contains IMG IP isn't it way too early to use SGX543 or even 543MP?

Hey...I said it first !

"Given that Apple is rumoured to have already ordered 10" screens for a product later this year, its far to early for it to be anything multi-cored from IMG, IMO"

 

[Ailuros]

Hey...I said it first !

"Given that Apple is rumoured to have already ordered 10" screens for a product later this year, its far to early for it to be anything multi-cored from IMG, IMO"

Ok ok the relevant headline has been granted

 

[argor]

apple
http://www.appleinsider.com/article...y_get_multiprocessor_performance_upgrade.html
http://www.macrumors.com/2009/03/18/multi-core-gpus-announced-from-iphone-chip-maker/

 

[Urian]

I doubt that the PowerVR SGX543MP will go in the next iPhone, the Operating System supports OpenGL ES 1.1 and this mean that doesn´t support Shaders, it isn´t a direct port from desktop version.

Apple netbook or next AppleTV? I see them with Nvidia Ion Chipset.

 

[tangey]

my *guess* is that next gen iphone will be SGX (but not multi-core).

Be interesting to see if there is any reference to es2.0 in the latest iphone 3.0 software.

 

[Ailuros]

my *guess* is that next gen iphone will be SGX (but not multi-core).

Be interesting to see if there is any reference to es2.0 in the latest iphone 3.0 software.

I wouldn't call something with a 10" screen a "phone" anymore *cough*

 

[Mike11]

my *guess* is that next gen iphone will be SGX (but not multi-core).

Be interesting to see if there is any reference to es2.0 in the latest iphone 3.0 software.

No multi-core this year, but I guess in 2010 we could see a SGX543MP in an iPhone. Since imho there seems to be no reference to higher resolution screen in the SDK3.0, a SGX530 would be more than enough for this year's model. And without a higher resolution and multitasking there's no absolute need for more RAM. So a higher clocked (but still ARM11) CPU, more storage and the mentioned SGX530 will most likely be the only (chip) changes this summer imho.

 

[Ailuros]

No multi-core this year, but I guess in 2010 we could see a SGX543MP in an iPhone. Since imho there seems to be no reference to higher resolution screen in the SDK3.0, a SGX530 would be more than enough for this year's model. And without a higher resolution and multitasking there's no absolute need for more RAM. So a higher clocked (but still ARM11) CPU, more storage and the mentioned SGX530 will most likely be the only (chip) changes this summer imho.

If we're talking about a smartphone and not that weird yet undefined 10" screen device (slated for H2 2009), then I don't understand what would change of all the sudden so radically in mobile game content that would presuppose an increase from a hypothetical 530 to a hypothetical 543MP (and yes even "just" dual core) within only a year.

Besides the fact the each core needs a bit more time from announcement to final device integration and the 543 is the youngest core at the moment of the entire SGX family, a single core SGX543 could be over 4x times faster than a SGX530. I don't see a single shred of a shader yet in any mobile game (or I'm blind); what is there so groundbreaking in 2010 that Apple would chose a 543 over a 540 for example?

 

[argor]

I doubt that the PowerVR SGX543MP will go in the next iPhone, the Operating System supports OpenGL ES 1.1 and this mean that doesn´t support Shaders, it isn´t a direct port from desktop version.

Apple netbook or next AppleTV? I see them with Nvidia Ion Chipset.

i was just remarking that now every time that imtec release something apple fan site start to say it will be in the next iphone

you do nou that the PowerVR SGX line suports OpenGL ES 1.1 and OpenGL ES 2
also it thing it is likele the next AppleTV will use powervr MVED/VXD

 

[Ailuros]

If Apple truly wants to build a netbook in the less foreseeable future that isn't crap (sic), they'd better orient themselves either along Ion2 or SGX MP after all LOL

 

[darkblu]

I'm sure you meant future SoC

while my next desktop will be a SoC for all intents and purposes, it will still have a PCI slot ; )

 

[Urian]

i was just remarking that now every time that imtec release something apple fan site start to say it will be in the next iphone

you do nou that the PowerVR SGX line suports OpenGL ES 1.1 and OpenGL ES 2
also it thing it is likele the next AppleTV will use powervr MVED/VXD

The problem is that perhaps Apple will do the same that they did with the iPod, the same logical board generation after generation with some enhacements like better battery, more flash memory...

For example between iPod 4G and 5G (Video) the only difference in the logical board was an extra processor for h.264 decoding and nothing more, perhaps Apple will replace some processors made for others that made the same task with less power consumption.

 

[roninja]

My guess would be SGX543 in 2011 at the earliest.
This year we'll see SGX 530 / VXD in an iPhone/Touch. We may even see an SGX 520 in a lower spec version Phone or Nano type device, either later this year or early next.

SGX 540 perhaps next year, followed by 543 as I'd mentioned in around 2 years time. Anything faster than this will be a welcome surprise however...

 

[tangey]

I wouldn't call something with a 10" screen a "phone" anymore *cough*

Neither would I, I'm expecting new iphone hardware in the summer, with one of the previously announced SGX cores in it, but not 543 or 543MP. The 10" *thingy* is something entirely separate.