ELSA hints GT206 and GT212

I thought this was G86?

No, G86 has got 16 SPs. ;)

That's GT200 compared to G92. Who said that GT21x will have the same changes that GT200 had? Who said that GT21x low end will have the same changes as GT200 top-end?

I only have listed those news, where I am convinced that they are also in the entry segment encounter.

Can we agree that the GT218 with the same number of processing units need more transistors than G9x? That was my only intention. ;)

G98 is 4 TMUs/16 SPs. As for those scaling numbers, uhhh, are you guys high? Small chips have sufficiently high ratios of analogue & I/O that scaling isn't anywhere near that good...

G86: 16 SPs, 8 TMUs, 8 ROPs, 128 Bit
G98: 8 SPs, 8 TMUs, 4 ROPs, 64 Bit
G96: 32 SPs, 16 TMUs, 8 ROPs, 128 Bit
 
Last edited by a moderator:
G98 based products are 8400 GS (not all), 9300 GE and 9300 GS and all have got only 8 SPs.
Have you good a link, who shows that G98 has got 16 instead of 8 SPs? By Wikipedia.de G98 has got 8 SPs, too.
 
Woah, you're actually right - I apologize. G98 is 8 TMU/8 SP, and MCP78 is 4 TMU/16 SP. And MCP79 is 8 TMU/16 SP. And they all have differences beyond that, too! Hopefully the genius who came up with NV's roadmap in that timeframe has already been fired by now... Especially given the other consequences that insanity had, which I won't go into here.

XMAN26: Those are, believe it or not, rebranded G84/G86s. And now that I think about it, it's indeed mobile GPU branding which confused me too, I suspect (along with MCP78)...
 
I'm talking about the packages, not the dies! Just a minor curiosity, to find out if the cards I linked have packages that are 29mm on each side.

Jawed
 
=>Jawed: I did some quick measuring on GF 8600 and 9500 photos I found on the net, using PCI Express slot length for reference. G96 package seems to be about 30 mm, G84 came out to ~35 mm.
 
I wouldn't read too much into package sizes, although it would definitely seem to exclude a 200mm² chip... I don't think we can conclude much about the number of TMUs based on this either, since the difference between 24 and 32 TMUs on 40nm is literally ~7mm²(!!!) - this number comes from TMUs being ~1/4th of GT200, which has 80 TMUs on a 583mm² die on 65nm, so ~145mm² which becomes <7mm² on 40nm.


I'm still betting on 192-bit GDDR3/32 TMUs/128-160 SPs personally. The only truly strange factor would be the 45W TDP according to Fudzilla, although perhaps that is just for the chip and doesn't include the DRAM... In which case it'd still be <75W, which is nice.
 
I'm still betting on 192-bit GDDR3/32 TMUs/128-160 SPs personally.
Isn't that quite a lot, if we're talking about GT216? If the "codename +2 = half specs" system is still valid, then GT212 would have to have approximately four times the units - 512-640 SPs and ~128 TMUs.
The specs you're proposing better fit GT214.
 
Isn't that quite a lot, if we're talking about GT216? If the "codename +2 = half specs" system is still valid
I suspect it roughly is (remember G98, for example, isn't quite exactly 1/2th G96 either), but more in terms of bus width than the number of SPs this time around; i.e. 192-bit GDDR3->384-bit GDDR3->384-bit GDDR5 for example... Of course, roadmaps can change and what was very simple and seemingly elegant on a piece of paper can turn out quite differently in the end.

Another argument in favour of GT216 having 32 TMUs is that both G84 and G96 had 16 TMUs; therefore if they sticked to the same kind of nomenclature, you'd expect GT216 to be more similar to G94 - which certainly had 32 TMUs, didn't it?

In the end, I wouldn't expect codenames to be such a reliable indicator of, well, anything at all - so we'll have to wait until more reliable leaks come out, IMO.
 
I suspect it roughly is (remember G98, for example, isn't quite exactly 1/2th G96 either), but more in terms of bus width than the number of SPs this time around; i.e. 192-bit GDDR3->384-bit GDDR3->384-bit GDDR5 for example... Of course, roadmaps can change and what was very simple and seemingly elegant on a piece of paper can turn out quite differently in the end.
Those bus widths sound quite plausible, except for one thing: there was only one chip in history with an unconventionally wide bus, that being G80. Other than that, all chips had 128, 256 or 512 bits, although for G92 a wider interface would have made sense.
Another argument in favour of GT216 having 32 TMUs is that both G84 and G96 had 16 TMUs; therefore if they sticked to the same kind of nomenclature, you'd expect GT216 to be more similar to G94 - which certainly had 32 TMUs, didn't it?
Not necessarily. I think that number will depend on whether nVidia keeps the 3:1 physical ALU:TEX ratio from G200, or goes for 4:1 as you suggested with the 128 SPs, 32 TMUs educated guess. So what if TMUs are not the reference point? Maybe SPs aren't either.
So GT216 could end up having 24 TMUs (it's still an increase) 72-96 SPs. Not an asphalt grinder in Q3'09, but it's value chip anyway.
Then GT218 could have exactly half these specs (36-48 SPs, 12 TMUs, 64-bit bus) and GT214 double them, like 144-192 SPs, 48 TMUs, 192 or 256-bit bus.
I don't know whether such specs are possible for those interface widths, but the 384 SPs/96 TMUs rumour has been around for some time concerning GT212.

And don't think I don't hate having to guess from codenames and package sizes, but it seems we've hit a drought this season, so I'm quite happy even for the Fudzilla info.
 
Sigh, why don't people get it? 384 SPs/96 TMUs is probably wrong. It was one of the original rumours for GT200, which also claimed G80-Ultra was a 80nm chip and GT200 would be 55nm, IIRC. The odds that it suddenly becomes spot-on one generation later aren't all that high IMO, although it's obviously not impossible either...

I don't necessarily disagree with you on anything (except for the fact NV's TMUs are grouped in groups of 8 nowadays and so they're unlikely to have a chip with 12), I'm just constantly shocked at how dubious the foundations of most discussions are in the speculation thread nowadays. If a rumour is probably wrong, what's the point of basing your analysis on it instead of, you know, your own speculation that you can try to justify somehow? It probably won't be right, but at least it won't necessarily be wrong.
 
Back
Top