The First Halo 3 Single Player Screens + Video! Rules=#369

[one]

to oneI expect you to support these very soon. Or will you continue to just spread them as truths?

It bears repeating:
The least you could do if you're going to keep tossing these comments around is prove it.

Do you mean resizing a higher resolution image into a smaller image doesn't equal to using hi-res textures in the original resolution? If not I was wrong at that point, I stand corrected.

So what about your opinion wrt 600p, do you support it? As I can't see the future I don't know the retail version of Halo 3 is 600p or not, Bungie devs or MS execs may change their mind today. There's nothing I gain or lose by that.

However all of us know only 2 months are left for Bungie after the E3 trailer, and it's a big project for MS with a strict schedule. Is this a conspiracy theory where Bungie releases a 624p trailer now to lure someone like me then later will give me a pleasant surprise by a 720p renderer in the retail product? It sounds too complicated to me, according to Occam's razor.

COD3 was known to be a title that used 1040x620.
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/11/13/cod3-thp8-not-720p/

There are upscaled 720p images (Screens added on: Jan 18, 2007) and direct-feed 1024x576 images (Screens added on: Nov 10, 2006) to see how they look.
http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/act...ml?om_act=convert&om_clk=tabs&tag=tabs;images

As for the eDRAM in Xenos, it's 10MB (1024 * 1024 * 10 = 10,485,760 bytes). You can calculate the size of the render target by

x pixels * y pixels * ( 4 bytes for FP10 HDR + 4 bytes for Z buffer) * 2 for 2xMSAA

So the pixels you can afford can be obtained by dividing 10,485,760 by (4 + 4) * 2 = 16, which is 655,360.

655,360 / 624 = 1050.

So 1050 x 624 is the likely rendering resolution of the E3 2007 Halo 3 trailer.

I don't understand how this would prove that Halo 3 was less than 720p. Wouldn't the angle of the line (or in this case edge) you are looking at relative to the horizontal axis have to be an exact multiple or fraction of 45 degrees for you to always see a direct correlation between the change in vertical position and the number of "steps" you would see in the image?

I think when it's smaller than 45 degrees it's still OK.

one.

http://www.bungie.net/images/Games/Halo3/Screenshots/Halo3_High-Ground-1stperson-01.jpg

720p, no AA. That's what the Halo 3 beta looked like.

It's vastly different from the actual game, though.
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20070518/halo321.htm

 

[MonkeyLicker]

It's vastly different from the actual game, though.
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20070518/halo321.htm

No it doesn't.
That pic looks exactly like it did on the beta.
The beta was clearly running at 720p.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

So every screenshot that supports your theory is real, and every shot that denies it is a fake/bullshot/whatever.
One, have you received any mod warnings for this attitude yet?

 

[warb]

It's vastly different from the actual game, though.
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20070518/halo321.htm

How so?

Here are some more 720p captures from the beta: http://www.gamersyde.com/gallery_5418_en.html

 

[one]

So every screenshot that supports your theory is real, and every shot that denies it is a fake/bullshot/whatever.
One, have you received any mod warnings for this attitude yet?

No, why? I thought this is a technology-oriented forum, if I get one I'll be really disappointed.

How so?

Here are some more 720p captures from the beta: http://www.gamersyde.com/gallery_5418_en.html

You let me make another image? Count jaggies in a image like this
http://images.gamersyde.com/gallery/public/5418/798_0013.jpg

 

[MonkeyLicker]

What are you trying to prove? That Halo 3 will run at lower than 720p?

 

[rbushner]

How many times must it be said?

The MP beta was 720p... period... end of story.

I played it quite a bit on my 60" Sony HDTV. There are also some 700,000 others that played it as well. You are seeing what you want to see in the screenshots. Complain about AA or AF (those metal grates on High Ground still make me say yuck) in the beta but there is NO doubt it was 720p.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

No, why? I thought this is a technology-oriented forum, if I get one I'll be really disappointed.http://images.gamersyde.com/gallery/public/5418/798_0013.jpg

Because your method is quite far from reliable or technical?

Did you know that Halo3's HDR implementation uses multiple render targets, for example? That alone messes up your framebuffer size 'calculations'...

 

[22psi]

There is no proof H3 is at anything lower than 720p.

 

[TurnDragoZeroV2G]

Do you mean resizing a higher resolution image into a smaller image doesn't equal to using hi-res textures in the original resolution? If not I was wrong at that point, I stand corrected.

Um, what? Perhaps you've confused texture resolution with texture filtering? Yes, with those ungodly-supersampled screenshots that Bungie craps out, yeah, the filtering isn't going to be close. Not by a mile.

But that's separate from texture resolution.

So what about your opinion wrt 600p, do you support it? As I can't see the future I don't know the retail version of Halo 3 is 600p or not, Bungie devs or MS execs may change their mind today. There's nothing I gain or lose by that.

However all of us know only 2 months are left for Bungie after the E3 trailer, and it's a big project for MS with a strict schedule. Is this a conspiracy theory where Bungie releases a 624p trailer now to lure someone like me then later will give me a pleasant surprise by a 720p renderer in the retail product? It sounds too complicated to me, according to Occam's razor.

My opinion? If the game releases at 624p or whatever (especially with square pixels), then it's pretty damning. Consider they don't do dynamic shadows for anything besides: characters, vehicles, and a very specific type of crate (yes to UNSC standard issue, no to wooden ones ), and it's pretty disappointing. They don't have even half a dozen other shadow-casting lights either, as far as I can tell from that trailer and other screenshots. They said in a weekly update that decorators would have dynamic shadows, and they don't. Trees that should be casting shadows don't. Maybe the shadows are different for the final game...

I'll be mildly surprised if they render internally below 720p (barring things like half sized buffers for say alpha effects), though.

As for the eDRAM in Xenos, it's 10MB (1024 * 1024 * 10 = 10,485,760 bytes). You can calculate the size of the render target by

x pixels * y pixels * ( 4 bytes for FP10 HDR + 4 bytes for Z buffer) * 2 for 2xMSAA

So the pixels you can afford can be obtained by dividing 10,485,760 by (4 + 4) * 2 = 16, which is 655,360.

655,360 / 624 = 1050.

So 1050 x 624 is the likely rendering resolution of the E3 2007 Halo 3 trailer.

I think when it's smaller than 45 degrees it's still OK.

It's vastly different from the actual game, though.
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20070518/halo321.htm

You make the mistake of assuming they just use FP10 for HDR. They don't. There is another buffer used in conjunction to achieve a higher dynamic range. Read up on it from their presentation "HDR the Bungie way."

Now, explain what you know of the photomode. The dev cameras/dev version of the photo capture is capable of renderering at higher resolutions, yes. That much is completely obvious. And Bungie makes liberal use of it. That doesn't mean that the photo mode available to myself and others who will actually play this game will do the same. Or add extra AA, AF, use better motion blur, etc. Now, have the ability to turn on depth of field for that scene, whereas it's used sparingly under normal gameplay conditions? I'd bet on that.

 

[MonkeyLicker]

There is no proof H3 is at anything lower than 720p.

The beta was no doubt 720p.
It's easy to spot upscaling like COD3. Halo 3 beta was crystal clear.

 

[one]

Because your method is quite far from reliable or technical?

Did you know that Halo3's HDR implementation uses multiple render targets, for example? That alone messes up your framebuffer size 'calculations'...

It's just one of possibilities I presented because according to you guys whether the E3 2007 Halo 3 was HD or not doesn't effect the resolution of the retail version AT ALL. Who knows what they adds or subtracts from the final product? I'd like to hear why you are so sure that this image is rendered in 720p.
http://www.freeimagehost.eu/image/eee5b9690084

My opinion? If the game releases at 624p or whatever (especially with square pixels), then it's pretty damning. Consider they don't do dynamic shadows for anything besides: characters, vehicles, and a very specific type of crate (yes to UNSC standard issue, no to wooden ones ), and it's pretty disappointing. They don't have even half a dozen other shadow-casting lights either, as far as I can tell from that trailer and other screenshots. They said in a weekly update that decorators would have dynamic shadows, and they don't. Trees that should be casting shadows don't. Maybe the shadows are different for the final game...

I'll be mildly surprised if they render internally below 720p (barring things like half sized buffers for say alpha effects), though.

You make the mistake of assuming they just use FP10 for HDR. They don't. There is another buffer used in conjunction to achieve a higher dynamic range. Read up on it from their presentation "HDR the Bungie way."

Now, explain what you know of the photomode. The dev cameras/dev version of the photo capture is capable of renderering at higher resolutions, yes. That much is completely obvious. And Bungie makes liberal use of it. That doesn't mean that the photo mode available to myself and others who will actually play this game will do the same. Or add extra AA, AF, use better motion blur, etc. Now, have the ability to turn on depth of field for that scene, whereas it's used sparingly under normal gameplay conditions? I'd bet on that.

Do I have to add "IMHO" to all sentences I write in this thread?

 

[Tap In]

Do I have to add "IMHO" to all sentences I write in this thread?

that would be nice since it is just a theory and considering your first few posts were allegedly to "correct FUD".

 

[Laa-Yosh]

I'd like to hear why you are so sure that this image is rendered in 720p.

Either we discuss all images - including those that are clearly direct feed, 720p, no AA screenshots - and make the conclusion that we can't decide because of contradicting images; or we wait for the final game to judge, well, the final game.

Also, do you
1. own an X360 and a HDTV,
2. played COD3 or any other upscaled game on it,
3. and played the Halo3 beta on it,
or in other words, do you have any first hand experience with the beta?

 

[one]

Either we discuss all images - including those that are clearly direct feed, 720p, no AA screenshots - and make the conclusion that we can't decide because of contradicting images; or we wait for the final game to judge, well, the final game.

Also, do you
1. own an X360 and a HDTV,
2. played COD3 or any other upscaled game on it,
3. and played the Halo3 beta on it,
or in other words, do you have any first hand experience with the beta?

Beta is out of the scope of this discussion. Didn't I write I had been told the SP engine and the MP engine are different? Oh I did.
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1043177&postcount=268
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1024205&postcount=115

But if you shift it to Halo 3 beta I'd like to hear the same thing about an image like this
http://images.gamersyde.com/gallery/public/5418/798_0013.jpg
http://www.gamersyde.com/gallery_5418_en.html

 

[Laa-Yosh]

I can only repeat myself.

So every screenshot that supports your theory is real, and every shot that denies it is a fake/bullshot/whatever.

 

[one]

I can only repeat myself.

So every screenshot that supports your theory is real, and every shot that denies it is a fake/bullshot/whatever.

That can be said by me too, do you realize it?

EDIT: IMHO, of course.

 

[RobertR1]

One, doesn't have and will not buy a 360 or play Halo3. He'd be best to let his concerns fall to the side and focus on his platform of choice.

Us, soon to be, Halo3 owners will suffer through it. Don't cry for us

 

[Laa-Yosh]

And to this, I've already said that it means we just can't decide about the final game until it has been released... Which also raises questions about your motivation to draw conclusions at this time...

 

[nintenho]

"brutes have new toys: personal shields" As in, rechargable Elite-like shields? Because that would be awesome.

I think it's like one of those emplacements they lay on the ground but they can move it around or something.

complete MP editor with each team designing their own defenses? how cool is that?

you can't physically vhange the terrain but you can do every other imaginable thing.