Beyond3D Forum

Dave Baumann · 24-Jun-2002, 11:51

Today 3Dlabs launch the 'Wildcat VP' series of Workstation graphics boards - the first to be based upon their new P10 'Visual Processor' chip.

Not long ago a few members of the press were invited along to find out more about Wildcat VP and Beyond3D were amoung the chosen few. Read here for more information on the support and specification of the boards. For information in the technology these boards are based on then read our P10 Technology Preview here.

mat · 24-Jun-2002, 12:04

from page 2

Quote:

Anti-aliasing Modes Line Antialiasing (up to 16 samples) Full Scene AA : Off, 2X, Quincunx and 4X

Quincunx ? isnt this a nVidia Trademark?

Simon F · 24-Jun-2002, 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by mat

from page 2

Quote:

Anti-aliasing Modes Line Antialiasing (up to 16 samples) Full Scene AA : Off, 2X, Quincunx and 4X

Quincunx ? isnt this a nVidia Trademark?

Given that your signature contains Latin (albeit via Terry Pratchett), I would have thought you'd have known the answer to that.

Quincunx refers to a pattern with four points in a rectangle and a 5th one at the centre (i.e like the 5 on a die). IIRC it comes from a Roman 5/12ths coin that had 5 spots on it in that pattern.

This filter pattern has been used in prior art graphics processing (under that name) and so, AFAICS, would not be 'trademarkable'.

LittlePenny · 24-Jun-2002, 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveBaumann

At risk of showing I am the retard of the boards, I really want to know where the ram is on that board.

Baggins · 24-Jun-2002, 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by LittlePenny

At risk of showing I am the retard of the boards, I really want to know where the ram is on that board.

Behind the heatsink

And on the other side of board (128MB version I guess...)
Finally we have Wildcat VP. And the middle (128MB) version seems to be more affordable than any Wildcat before

RussSchultz · 24-Jun-2002, 14:15

Its the square-ish chips peeking out underneath the heatsink.

Samsung is what looks like written on them from the picture. Its BGA packaging and the leads are all underneath the package, and you're used to seeing chips with leads sticking out.

tamattack · 24-Jun-2002, 14:34

Anyone else find it interesting that the heatsink design looks so similar to the nVidia reference heatsink for GF4?

mat · 24-Jun-2002, 16:32

i just meant the name "Quincunx" not the technology.
looks like nvidia has trademarked it: http://tess.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?...ate=bmcct3.2.1

looks like i cant link to the result page, but you just have to look for it there (sn: 76216667)

Dave Baumann · 24-Jun-2002, 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baggins

Behind the heatsink

And on the other side of board (128MB version I guess...)

No, that is the 128MB board.

As has been said there are 8 BGA memory modules fairly densely packed around the chip. The are obsured by the heatsink, but the heatsink doesn't actually make contact with them

You can make out the locations of the memory modules from the backside board pic at the bottom of the following page:

http://www.beyond3d.com/articles/p10...?page=wvp1.inc

mboeller · 24-Jun-2002, 19:20

42G AASamples/sec seems quite a lot.

It seems they have ~ 2.6 GPixel fillrate then ( with 16samples / pixel )

Is this Pointsampled or already bilinear filtered?

Anonymous · 24-Jun-2002, 20:56

Heatsink looks exactly like nVidia.
Wow! how f#ckin original can they get

Gunhead · 24-Jun-2002, 21:45

Guest, you think Nvidia makes heatsinks? Ready-made is what they all use... You notice it uses a printed circuit board just like Nvidia cards? :P

Incidentally, can B3D drop the italics in "3Dlabs"? Slavish following of proprietary stylistics like that slightly peeves me. After all, we are comfy with dropping the capitalisation with Nvidia (it's no acronym) and all of ATI's engine/method nomenclature (we don't yell TRUFORM), despite all their efforts, now aren't we? Not to be taken too seriously, now... but can B3D?

Anonymous · 24-Jun-2002, 22:22

Quote:

Guest, you think Nvidia makes heatsinks?

The HSF on GF4 cards is Nvidia patented design.

Gunhead · 24-Jun-2002, 22:28

Oops. I'll tacit and go to bed now.

Dave Baumann · 24-Jun-2002, 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunhead

Incidentally, can B3D drop the italics in "3Dlabs"? Slavish following of proprietary stylistics like that slightly peeves me. After all, we are comfy with dropping the capitalisation with Nvidia (it's no acronym) and all of ATI's engine/method nomenclature (we don't yell TRUFORM), despite all their efforts, now aren't we? Not to be taken too seriously, now... but can B3D?

If you take note, when I’m writing an article I generally tend to stick to the stylisation that the vendor chooses so I’ll try and type them as: nVIDIA, ATi and 3Dlabs. I don’t bother to do that in the forum, but in an article I usually try to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anonymous

The HSF on GF4 cards is Nvidia patented design.

Where did you get that from? And if so, why do you think whoever manufactures them sold them to 3Dlabs?

3dcgi · 25-Jun-2002, 03:06

Quote:

The HSF on GF4 cards is Nvidia patented design.

I remember reading that as well though I don't remember where.

Anonymous · 25-Jun-2002, 03:58

"Rather than use NVIDIA’s patent-pending aluminum heatsink/fan cooler ASUS uses a nickel-plated copper cooler"
Source : http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardwa...ltra/page3.asp

"NVIDIA has put a patent pending HSF on the GPU that not only cools the card, but also uses ducts to blow air over the memory which do not have heatsinks this go around.."
Source: http://www.3dgpu.com/reviews//gf4_4600_6.php

I have more links if you'd like....

Anonymous · 25-Jun-2002, 05:48

Did u see how much it costed! $499 for the 64MB version!

mat · 25-Jun-2002, 09:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Did u see how much it costed! $499 for the 64MB version!

you saw that this is a Professional card and not for playing Games?

Anonymous · 25-Jun-2002, 09:32

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...,263385,00.asp

Doesn't look too good, even in professional benchmarks. Hopefully, they will get D3D performance on par.

Anonymous · 25-Jun-2002, 11:15

Quote:

Heatsink looks exactly like nVidia.
Wow! how f#ckin original can they get

ah yes, design a new gpu from the ground up but use an effective heatsink/fan (of which creative have plenty of no doubt) and get criticised for orignality..pathetic.

Neeyik · 25-Jun-2002, 12:36

Quote:

If you take note, when I’m writing an article I generally tend to stick to the stylisation that the vendor chooses so I’ll try and type them as: nVIDIA, ATi and 3Dlabs. I don’t bother to do that in the forum, but in an article I usually try to.

Just to be a little bit pedantic Dave

, let me just reproduce what NVIDIA state in their documents concerning the use of their name:

Writing NVIDIA
The correct way of writing NVIDIA is all uppercase.

If you download any of their image sets, the guideline document makes this fairly clear. The image of their name is written as nVIDIA but they always write their name as NVIDIA. The very same applies to the others you point out - their images are ATi and 3Dlabs but they always write their name as ATI and 3Dlabs.

The best analogy I can think of is Coca-Cola. The name image is a hand-written script but they write it as plain old "Coca-Cola"

Ah give me a nit and I'll pick it for all it's worth!

Saem · 25-Jun-2002, 19:30

I found those benches at extremetech fishy, I think the drivers were dynamicly enabling and disabling FSAA if the performance hit became to high, unless the geometry load is so absolutely high.

Anonymous · 25-Jun-2002, 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by anon

Quote:

Heatsink looks exactly like nVidia.
Wow! how f#ckin original can they get

ah yes, design a new gpu from the ground up but use an effective heatsink/fan (of which creative have plenty of no doubt) and get criticised for orignality..pathetic.

Pathetic? Yes they are.
They slap on nVidia's patented heatsink/fan, use the term "Quincunx" which only nVidia uses(yes I know anyone can use a name, although Quincunx is nVidia patented technology), and you think the criticism is too much? Gimme a break.
If it wasn't for the bold "3D Labs" name on it any average joe moron would look at it and say "Oh an nVidia card". They would see the pic on the box and the term "Quincunx" used on the box somewhere and think "Oh an nVidia card". Not to mention Creative are notorious for make it a total pain in the ass to find the actual name of the graphics chip they're using on the outside of their packaging.
Yep, more marketing BS from the slobs at Creative.
I bet you probably believe their sblive! and audigy cards are "true 24bit" like they falsely boast too huhh?
LOL!

Anonymous · 25-Jun-2002, 22:31

extremtech is extremly pathetic,
they use some kind of nvidia's
"unreleased benchmark driver"

and for P10 they turned on 4x FSAA,
and "max quality texture filtering" and
(not knowing what max quality is doing)

they didn't even bother post any result
for default setting for comparsion.

http://www.amazoninternational.com/h.../wildcatVP.asp

in this article P10 did really well in
SPEC View Perf 7 with its alpha drivers.
beating Quadro 4 750XGL.

i'm glad 3dlabs have finally come thorogh,
and looking forward to getting a P10.

hopefully for next B3D P10 article will go in
depth about VPU accelerated imaging processing feature for photoshop,etc,apps.

24-Jun-2002, 11:51	#1
Dave Baumann Gamerscore Wh... Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 12,989	3Dlabs Announce Wildcat VP Professional Graphics Processors Today 3Dlabs launch the 'Wildcat VP' series of Workstation graphics boards - the first to be based upon their new P10 'Visual Processor' chip. Not long ago a few members of the press were invited along to find out more about Wildcat VP and Beyond3D were amoung the chosen few. Read here for more information on the support and specification of the boards. For information in the technology these boards are based on then read our P10 Technology Preview here. __________________ Expand. Accelerate. Dominate. Tweet Tweet!

24-Jun-2002, 16:32	#8
mat Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 321	i just meant the name "Quincunx" not the technology. looks like nvidia has trademarked it: http://tess.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?...ate=bmcct3.2.1 looks like i cant link to the result page, but you just have to look for it there (sn: 76216667) __________________ Get Firefox

24-Jun-2002, 20:56	#11
Anonymous Senior Member Join Date: May 1978 Posts: 3,263	sink looks exactly like nvidia Heatsink looks exactly like nVidia. Wow! how f#ckin original can they get

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24-Jun-2002, 14:15	#6
RussSchultz Professional Malcontent Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: HTTP 404 Posts: 2,855	Its the square-ish chips peeking out underneath the heatsink. Samsung is what looks like written on them from the picture. Its BGA packaging and the leads are all underneath the package, and you're used to seeing chips with leads sticking out.

24-Jun-2002, 14:34	#7
tamattack Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Canada? What state is that in? Posts: 126	Anyone else find it interesting that the heatsink design looks so similar to the nVidia reference heatsink for GF4?

24-Jun-2002, 19:20	#10
mboeller Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 852	42G AASamples/sec seems quite a lot. It seems they have ~ 2.6 GPixel fillrate then ( with 16samples / pixel ) Is this Pointsampled or already bilinear filtered?

24-Jun-2002, 21:45	#12
Gunhead Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: a vertex Posts: 354	Guest, you think Nvidia makes heatsinks? Ready-made is what they all use... You notice it uses a printed circuit board just like Nvidia cards? :P Incidentally, can B3D drop the italics in "3Dlabs"? Slavish following of proprietary stylistics like that slightly peeves me. After all, we are comfy with dropping the capitalisation with Nvidia (it's no acronym) and all of ATI's engine/method nomenclature (we don't yell TRUFORM), despite all their efforts, now aren't we? Not to be taken too seriously, now... but can B3D?

24-Jun-2002, 22:28	#14
Gunhead Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: a vertex Posts: 354	Oops. I'll tacit and go to bed now.

25-Jun-2002, 03:58	#17
Anonymous Senior Member Join Date: May 1978 Posts: 3,263	"Rather than use NVIDIA’s patent-pending aluminum heatsink/fan cooler ASUS uses a nickel-plated copper cooler" Source : http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardwa...ltra/page3.asp "NVIDIA has put a patent pending HSF on the GPU that not only cools the card, but also uses ducts to blow air over the memory which do not have heatsinks this go around.." Source: http://www.3dgpu.com/reviews//gf4_4600_6.php I have more links if you'd like....

25-Jun-2002, 05:48	#18
Anonymous Senior Member Join Date: May 1978 Posts: 3,263	Did u see how much it costed! $499 for the 64MB version!

25-Jun-2002, 09:32	#20
Anonymous Senior Member Join Date: May 1978 Posts: 3,263	http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...,263385,00.asp Doesn't look too good, even in professional benchmarks. Hopefully, they will get D3D performance on par.

25-Jun-2002, 19:30	#23
Saem Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 1,532	I found those benches at extremetech fishy, I think the drivers were dynamicly enabling and disabling FSAA if the performance hit became to high, unless the geometry load is so absolutely high.

25-Jun-2002, 22:31	#25
Anonymous Senior Member Join Date: May 1978 Posts: 3,263	extremtech is extremly pathetic, they use some kind of nvidia's "unreleased benchmark driver" and for P10 they turned on 4x FSAA, and "max quality texture filtering" and (not knowing what max quality is doing) they didn't even bother post any result for default setting for comparsion. http://www.amazoninternational.com/h.../wildcatVP.asp in this article P10 did really well in SPEC View Perf 7 with its alpha drivers. beating Quadro 4 750XGL. i'm glad 3dlabs have finally come thorogh, and looking forward to getting a P10. hopefully for next B3D P10 article will go in depth about VPU accelerated imaging processing feature for photoshop,etc,apps.

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