[london-boy]

From IGN.com

February 05, 2004 - Recent reports suggest PlayStation 2 developers Naughty Dog and Insomniac Studios are creating sequels to Jak II and Ratchet and Clank 2 Going Commando, respectively, for fall 2004.


The Official PlayStation Magazine (OPM) suggested in its rumor report that PS2 will get sequels to both of those games this year. In the 32-bit generation both studios were known for creating quality games each year without missing a beat. But in this generation of systems, Naughty Dog' pattern, if observed literally, would suggest the studio would create another game two years after Jak II, i.e. 2005. Insomniac, on the other hand, has created a game each year for the last two years, so it's more likely it may create a sequel this year.

A representative from Sony Computer Entertainment America denied these stories, claiming them as pure rumor. "We do not comment on rumors, and we officially have not announced anything on Jak III and Ratchet and Clank III."

However, higher up officials from SCEA told IGN in late 2003 that several major announcements were to be made very soon. Could those announcements be on Jak III or Ratchet and Clank 3? Or could they be for ICO 2? Waiting is such a bitch.

The alleged Ratchet and Clank sequel is supposed to be darker, thanks to the influence of new team members from Crystal Dynamics, creators of the epic vampire series Legacy of Kain. The rumored Jak III is also supposed to be even more open in design than Jak II.

Additional and less believable rumors suggest that Insomniac and Naughty Dog were planning a joint project for PlayStation 3. "That's laughable," said the SCEA representative. "Totally false."

We'll have more on Jak III and Ratchet and Clank III in the near future (uh, if they even exist).
-- Douglass C. Perry

Legacy of Kain people working on R&C3?? WHY?!?!!

Still, all rumours for the moment, at least they clear up some older rumours...

[rabidrabbit]

Maybe there's just some new guys now working on Insomniac and R&C3, that previously worked with Legacy of Kain (art mainly?). That would give just enough material for rumours that R&C3 is going to be 'darker' in style of LoK.
But it is very possible Insomniac are thinking of changing the R6C art style, just like ND did with J&D2, to try to make it appeal more to older demographic.

I've got an idea! What if J&D3 and R&C3 are both going to occur in some 'past gothic time' in J&D and R&C universe. Maybe they could even share the same universe with cameo appearances from characters of both games in both games.
Not all of the game universe would overlap, just a planet, town or two.

[london-boy]

Well it would be very nice to see what ND could do if they changed "environments".... Keep the (amazing) engine and art design expertise but use them for a, say, jungle, or a REAL city (GTA style)... Or space... With the polygon counts, LOD algorithms and sheer budget available to them it would be very cool to see how far their imagination can take them...

[chapban.]

Cant say im eXcited. 2 very generic platformers that kinda feel tEh same both of em. Think be better for PS3 with a new 3D engine.

[london-boy]

The people who have actually played the games feel very different Chap, but thanks for your invaluable contribution to the thread.


Naughty Dog have already said they will shift the focus from graphics (which will not see as much of a jump as seen in the past according to them) to new areas of gameplay. JR asserted that they must find "new ways" to entertain gamers in future games, since graphics can only take you so far...

I wonder... Cameras anyone....

[chapban.]

I don like this JR guy. HE prettty much is the Lanny Lorne(oddworld guy) of Sony. Talks too much and well, not really suiting his talk. For ex, pre Jak2, he speaks as if he be going to revolutionise platforming, Mario is old, blah blah blah. BUT, when we play Jak2 it just Jak1 repackaged. Nothing revolution.

For ex, with all that polygon display in the central city, felt more like just another tech demo. We ask ourself, WHY the need for so many 3D objects in the city? Does it add to the gameplay? Does it allows for cool sool things to do? NO. In fact, those stupid vehicles and pedestrians are more of a hindrance! They are really NOT needed, or at least, that many. BUT it sure look techy nice with all that things moving about. Im FINE with techy display, but the JR guy....why is my platforming revolution?

[rabidrabbit]

I wouldn't call either 'PlatformerS' generic. I wouldn't even call them PlatformerS any more, even though they do contain some elementPS of jumPSing from PlatformS to PlatformS and a lot of vertical movement. Platforming iS not a major Part of the gameSPlay, ePSecially on R&C2.

They are more action adventure gamePS than PlatformerS. Or 3rd PerSon PShooter action adPhentureS.
They could become generic though, especially R&C3, if they stick with the same formula as R&C and R&C2 which was basically just new levels and weapons. Still an extremely enjoyable game as it is.

[london-boy]

Originally Posted by chapban.

I don like this JR guy. HE prettty much is the Lanny Lorne(oddworld guy) of Sony. Talks too much and well, not really suiting his talk. For ex, pre Jak2, he speaks as if he be going to revolutionise platforming, Mario is old, blah blah blah. BUT, when we play Jak2 it just Jak1 repackaged. Nothing revolution.

For ex, with all that polygon display in the central city, felt more like just another tech demo. We ask ourself, WHY the need for so many 3D objects in the city? Does it add to the gameplay? Does it allows for cool sool things to do? NO. In fact, those stupid vehicles and pedestrians are more of a hindrance! They are really NOT needed, or at least, that many. BUT it sure look techy nice with all that things moving about. Im FINE with techy display, but the JR guy....why is my platforming revolution?

I guess that's your opinion, chap. Personally i think that the only fault with Jak2, be in gameplay and graphics or whatever else, was the tearing. Which isn't even that evident anyway.

Maybe our opinions are different because i actually played the game for more than 15 minutes, but hey who am i to judge.

Jak2 (and also R&C2) was in every way a better platformer than many others released in recent years.
All this talk about PR, Jason Rubin VS Lorne Lanning, revolution etc is not what the thread is about.

Thank you.

[rabidrabbit]

Originally Posted by chapban.

I don like this JR guy. HE prettty much is the Lanny Lorne(oddworld guy) of Sony. Talks too much and well, not really suiting his talk. For ex, pre Jak2, he speaks as if he be going to revolutionise platforming, Mario is old, blah blah blah. BUT, when we play Jak2 it just Jak1 repackaged. Nothing revolution.

For ex, with all that polygon display in the central city, felt more like just another tech demo. We ask ourself, WHY the need for so many 3D objects in the city? Does it add to the gameplay? Does it allows for cool sool things to do? NO. In fact, those stupid vehicles and pedestrians are more of a hindrance! They are really NOT needed, or at least, that many. BUT it sure look techy nice with all that things moving about. Im FINE with techy display, but the JR guy....why is my platforming revolution?

I wouldn't even mention Lorne Lanning and Jason Rubin in same sentence.
The other has some real (programming) talent (and good looks ) while the other has not.
It was not JakII that was J&D repackaged, you must be thinking R&C and R&C2 (proves you haven't played the games?)
JakII had it flaws, and it wasn't wholly original.

Jason Rubin might have talked about "revolutionising the platforming", and IMO with JakII they somewhat did (name one other 'platforming game that is more a GTA style soot-em-up-action-adventure-amalamation).
But on the same, Rubin has openly said that they are not intending to create something wholly original, but instead try to make something that is highest quality in it's genre.

[Nick Laslett]

I got Jak 2 for my birthday back in November, I have been playing it ever since. I am now 82% and 27hrs into the game. (As a father of 2 small children I don't get that much game time)

It is a shame that Jak2 hasn't been more of a succcess, because the game is far from being GENERIC. In fact it couldn't be further from the truth. One of the best things about the game is the diversity of the missions. Because of the fantasy setting it is able to have more variety than even GTA which is a real feat.

One of the great benefits of setting the game in a large city is it gives you a sense of who you are fighting to save. In Jak & Daxter, there is no-one actually under threat if you do not complete you quest. Whereas in Jak2 there is a whole city to save. This adds an important dynamic to the game because you feel part of something much bigger.

What Jak2 does really well is incorporate ideas from other games in a successful way. The hover board is a peerless example of how to implement such an idea. It is certainly as good as Tony Hawks and a lot better than Airblade. The game is full of successful steals like this. There are on-the-rails blaster sections that are great, there are a dozen or so mini racing games as good as Wipeout, Crazy Taxi, etc. There are boss showdowns that rival Metal Gear Solid for their length and complexity.

What is most surprising about the game is how little repetition there is in the missions. This is something were even GTA fell down.

All of this is without even talking about the technology underpinning the game. There is one mission where you have to race one of the hover cycles against another rider around the whole city. This mission demonstrates how robust the technology is because there is no visible loading going on as you shift across the city at high speed. I cannot imagine a level of similar size or complexity that can be traversed at high speed in any other game without the technology failing.

[Ug Lee]

Originally Posted by rabidrabbit

I wouldn't call either 'PlatformerS' generic. I wouldn't even call them PlatformerS any more, even though they do contain some elementPS of jumPSing from PlatformS to PlatformS and a lot of vertical movement. Platforming iS not a major Part of the gameSPlay, ePSecially on R&C2.

They are more action adventure gamePS than PlatformerS. Or 3rd PerSon PShooter action adPhentureS.
They could become generic though, especially R&C3, if they stick with the same formula as R&C and R&C2 which was basically just new levels and weapons. Still an extremely enjoyable game as it is.

I think you Are Going in the Right dirEction hEre.

[london-boy]

Guys you're making my headache worse. Enough with the capitals already!

[Squeak]

Originally Posted by london-boy

I guess that's your opinion, chap. Personally i think that the only fault with Jak2, be in gameplay and graphics or whatever else, was the tearing. Which isn't even that evident anyway.

Maybe our opinions are different because i actually played the game for more than 15 minutes, but hey who am i to judge.

Jak2 (and also R&C2) was in every way a better platformer than many others released in recent years.
All this talk about PR, Jason Rubin VS Lorne Lanning, revolution etc is not what the thread is about.

Thank you.

Apart from the impressive engine, I think it was very average game, both aesthetically, but certainly also gameplaywise.
The reviewer at GameSpy didn’t seem to think much of it either. I can only agree on most of what he writes: http://www.gamespy.com/reviews/october03/jak2ps2/

Originally Posted by Nick Laslett

What is most surprising about the game is how little repetition there is in the missions.

[Guden Oden]

Originally Posted by london-boy

Legacy of Kain people working on R&C3?? WHY?!?!!

Why NOT?

What, are they only allowed to make vampire games or something?

[london-boy]

Originally Posted by Guden Oden

Why NOT?

What, are they only allowed to make vampire games or something?

No, but i was just saying that i'd prefere them to keep their hands off a very good game like R&C, it's not like LOK games are the pinnacle of gaming... Talking about the gameplay here...

[Guden Oden]

Originally Posted by london-boy

i was just saying that i'd prefere them to keep their hands off a very good game like R&C, it's not like LOK games are the pinnacle of gaming...

I have a friend who's very much a fan of LOK, and besides, what if it is artist people or programmers rather than designers that are involved? Anyway, I think a cutesy game like R&C could use some gratuitous, explicit violence...

[london-boy]

Originally Posted by Guden Oden

I have a friend who's very much a fan of LOK, and besides, what if it is artist people or programmers rather than designers that are involved? Anyway, I think a cutesy game like R&C could use some gratuitous, explicit violence...

LOK has lots of potenital, and as i said R&C (or Jak) technology in a gothic environment would totally rock...

[rabidrabbit]

Originally Posted by london-boy

LOK has lots of potenital, and as i said R&C (or Jak) technology in a gothic environment would totally rock...

No, you didn't say that! I said that!

[london-boy]

Originally Posted by rabidrabbit

No, you didn't say that! I said that!

Oh..... Well i was thinking the same thing!

[ChryZ]

http://www.gamerankings.com
<pre>
J&amp;D Avg Ratio: 89%
Jak2 Avg Ratio: 89%
R&amp;C Avg Ratio: 89%
R&amp;C2 Avg Ratio: 91%
</pre>
Truely average

[nobie]

It's a really subjective matter. To me, WRT both graphics and gameplay SH3 was a much better game than either of those. OTOH, alot of people think the whole SH series is utter crap.

[london-boy]

Originally Posted by nobie

It's a really subjective matter. To me, WRT both graphics and gameplay SH3 was a much better game than either of those. OTOH, alot of people think the whole SH series is utter crap.

Yeah, taste...

To be honest i can't really say which one out of Jak2, SH3 and ZOE2 was "the best game". I would give the edge to JAK2 because of the sheer size and scope of the game. However that doesn't take anything away from the other 2 games...
And you guys know how much of a SH3+ZOE2 whore i am...

[chapban.]

Ain want to continue subjective talking by me, but here is something i feel must be address

One of the great benefits of setting the game in a large city is it gives you a sense of who you are fighting to save. In Jak & Daxter, there is no-one actually under threat if you do not complete you quest. Whereas in Jak2 there is a whole city to save. This adds an important dynamic to the game because you feel part of something much bigger.

The large city is really BAD. In Jak1 at least the village is smaller, BUT more alive, more individually cool, more usefully nice and graphiX there is better. Becoz of the smaller scale, the people there are more memorable, you have more "FEEL" towards your fellow village inhabitants.

In Jak2, the large city is BLEHly bleh! Adds WHAT? to gameplay, but only nicey looking, just an uselessly bigger interconnect hub that we usually see in platformers. GTA "FEEL" it ain. WORSE, is how now everyone feels like a lifeless reduplicated pre-programmed bots drone-ing around. The buildings are tEh bleh too, not havey their own style. All in ALL, now the hub stage is more mechanically boring AND needlessly having you travel around longer to get to the next platforming stage, than Jak1.

[london-boy]

Thank you again for your invaluable, but especially objective and comprehensible post, Chap.
Everyone already knows you've played the game for less than 15 minutes so i don't know why you even bother...

Moving on...

[marconelly!]

The reviewer at GameSpy didn’t seem to think much of it either. I can only agree on most of what he writes:

Whoa there. I can understand you not liking the game, but invoking the review with *by far* the lowest score the game received is a bit lame, considering most other scores are in the 9+ area. It's not like one odd review is going to prove your opinion is correct, it just makes it look funny and biased.