[K.I.L.E.R]

Why? It can't be because of a few personal attacks by immature posters?

Why not ban the few individuals instead of shutting down an entire forum?

Is there something going on which I'm clueless to?

[Grall]

I would very much like to know the same thing.

*G*

[cybamerc]

Perhaps a mistake?

[Rodéric]

Would like to know too... I suspect a mistake also.

[notAFanB]

The signal to noise ratio has skyrocketed lately (not that I'm entirely devoid on blame on this).


still given the mood in the form lately, it might very well be to allow everyone to cool off for a short period.

look forward to it being open again.


laters

[london-boy]

see, i'm gone for just ONE day, and look at what's happened!!!

[Rodéric]

mmh not too many interesting things indeed, and the usual SONY crap/marketing...

Maybe we should limit the forum talks to announced products.

[cybamerc]

Ingenu:

> Maybe we should limit the forum talks to announced products.

That would leave very little to talk about :P

[london-boy]

Originally Posted by cybamerc

Ingenu:

> Maybe we should limit the forum talks to announced products.

That would leave very little to talk about :P

The problem is never the "announced" stuff, it's the "released" stuff that i'm worried about!!!

Like, on the 3D technologies forum, leaving the "announced stuff" only would be cool, cause all Nvidia can do is "announce"...

ok i'm going off topic even here...


**imagines Dave accidentally clicking on the Delete Entire Forum button... Screaming NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!**

[Entropy]

Originally Posted by london-boy

ok i'm going off topic even here...


**imagines Dave accidentally clicking on the Delete Entire Forum button... Screaming NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!**

I almost never post in the console forum. My competence doesn't overlap the content there very well.
However, it has been abundantly clear that there are a couple of posters that keep spawning off-topic threads.

My position on this is that they should be banned.
I've seen single individuals completely ruin newsgroups, causing the competent folks to throw up their hands in disgust and walk off, leaving only the people with too much time on their hands to hang around and perpetuate the bickering. I'm even of the opinion that those people can be banned who regard the forum as their own personal playground where they just have to chime in on every topic with a useless opinion, or (as above) going off topic. Perhaps a reprimand is sufficient.

It may indeed be best for Beyond3D as a whole if the console forum was dropped. The useless would loose their playground and go build their sand castles somewhere else, the more generally gfx-knowledgeable/interested might diffuse into the other fora on the site.

It is very obvious however that the console forum is nowhere near the quality of the rest of the site. The signal (because there are definitely some quite knowledgeable people there!) is quite solidly buried in the noise.
IMO, get rid of the noise either by banning or by ditching the forum completely.

[qwerty2000]

If you do drop the console forum everbody is gong to start leaving the beyond 3d forum. That would be a stupid idea to do

[london-boy]

one thing is for sure, the Site Feedback forum has never been so active in the enitre history of B3D

Dropping the console fourm would be suicide for the boards. May give the site more credibility by dropping the kids, but it's not like the General Boards and to some extent the 3d Tech & Hardware are much better anyway, especially the General one.

[Dave Baumann]

The first thing to bear in mind is that the Console Forum here is an aberration. It is not what the site is focused and, in all honesty, I wouldn't really care if it existed or not - it would certainly cut down the number of PM's I get winging about it!

The only reason the Console Forum exists at all is because during the period of the Xbox announcement and development we, naturally, got a number of people talking about NV2A in the 3D Tech Forum, which gradually spanned other console hardware and eventually games. The console forum is there basically to divert those types of discussions away from the 3D tech & PC forums. In reality they are not a part of this site - we provide the forum because we recognise that a number of our frequent posters also wished to discuss Console hardware and games.

That was the historical reasons for the forum existing, and as the site has been up there have been people that have migrated to that forum directly without much understanding what "Beyond3D" is really about and certainly have no historical understanding of why the forum exists. And they don't necessarily treat it with the same level of respect that I would expect from the rest of B3D users.

Now, while undoubtedly there are some bad eggs in there, but generally I look at that as an effect, not necessarily the cause. We all enjoy picking up on rumours, talk and hype, but some in there appear to be taking it to extremes - the point were many of the serious posters have just giving up going there because there very little point in having a rational discussion.

WRT to "chap" it's not a simple case of banning a dial up user, since you'd also have to block everyone else on the IP subnet, which is not desirable. I've not had to put in blocks on Yahoo and Hotmail accounts in order to stop reregistering under different free mail accounts - this is not something I wished to do since we have many a registered user with Hotmal or Yahoo addresses and they don't feel the need to abuse the forums, and I may now be stopping other new member joining that could also abide by the conduct we prefer here.

Consider the locking of the Console forum as a cooling off period. I'm not sure how long it will last - it might be a few hours or it might be a month. If the types of issues we appear to be getting now continue when its re-opened then I may choose to remove it entirely. This is a warning to all users of the Console forum.

[Grall]

I don't think the forum needs to - or even should - be killed, but it DOES need to be watched over by the site admins.

They hardly ever peek their noses in there, and they like NEVER intervenes to steer errant threads back on course. I know I too needs watching sometimes, so it would help me as well.

So, this has to change. More activity from the big hats please!


*G*

[Dave Baumann]

Originally Posted by qwerty2000

If you do drop the console forum everbody is gong to start leaving the beyond 3d forum. That would be a stupid idea to do

Wrong. Everyone who comes purely for the Console forum would leave, but thiats no great issue. Everyone who comes for what this site is actually focused on (which is actually the majority of people) would stay.

Originally Posted by Grall

I don't think the forum needs to - or even should - be killed, but it DOES need to be watched over by the site admins.

Why? As I said, this is not the sites focus so why should we babysit a forum that is not the focus of the site. We [site admin] are all very busy trying to do things that is the focus of the site, we shouldn't need to spend time babysitting that forum. We provide that forum as a curtesy, if people want to abuse it then we will respond in kind.

[Reverend]

About bloody fucking time, I say. It was great initially during the XBOX time (which was the reason it was created for, like Dave said) but there are just too much noise in there that I almost want to puke each time I force myself to visit the forum.

[maskrider]

Well, I started to come to Beyond3d during the early days of PC 3D development, and enjoy reading many articles (and have certainly learned quite a lot of stuffs), then joined the forum and gradually (PC 3D games are no longer that interesting) moved to mostly in Console Talk forum.

I had not contributed much but I do love the forums and Beyond3D.

In the early days, the discussions are really interesting, it is like some rotten thing these days, I'd rather it being removed than seeing it deterioates like it is now.

That's what I think is the right thing to do to remove all the hassle and let the guys concentrate back on 3D (and me too, ha ha ).

[Phil]

Entropy, DaveBaumann:

Originally Posted by Entropy

I almost never post in the console forum. My competence doesn't overlap the content there very well.
However, it has been abundantly clear that there are a couple of posters that keep spawning off-topic threads.

My position on this is that they should be banned.
I've seen single individuals completely ruin newsgroups, causing the competent folks to throw up their hands in disgust and walk off, leaving only the people with too much time on their hands to hang around and perpetuate the bickering. I'm even of the opinion that those people can be banned who regard the forum as their own personal playground where they just have to chime in on every topic with a useless opinion, or (as above) going off topic. Perhaps a reprimand is sufficient.

It may indeed be best for Beyond3D as a whole if the console forum was dropped. The useless would loose their playground and go build their sand castles somewhere else, the more generally gfx-knowledgeable/interested might diffuse into the other fora on the site.

It is very obvious however that the console forum is nowhere near the quality of the rest of the site. The signal (because there are definitely some quite knowledgeable people there!) is quite solidly buried in the noise.
IMO, get rid of the noise either by banning or by ditching the forum completely.

Very well said. Being a frequent user to the console forum, it is pretty clear that that particular forum has experienced a steady decrease in quality since around then. It is actually quite sad because that quality was the reason that ultimately led me to register and participate. Since then, many of those quality posters have either moved on or their input is either lost under the noise as you mentioned. It isn't hard to feel cheated, especially those who have tried to encourage the forum getting back to its original quality. I see a few reasons to be responsable for the overall decrease:

Any board will eventually always get those single individuals that drift off topic or perpetuate in the bickering. I think getting a few moderators to actually moderate the forum was a good idea, but the execution itself leaves much to be desired. On one hand, both moderators seem to be in constant stress and thus not always the time to check on the forums. I truly feel for them. Anytime a thread gets locked, I can imagine they get overwhellmed with PMs questioning their ability. The problem I see is that the moderators do have the ability to edit/delete/lock posts and topics, but they don't have the ability to ban members. I understand banning can be difficult, especially when a user in on dial up, but I also think that the forum should not become a victim of those posters because of that. It would be unfair to close the forum for ever as the majority of posters do seem to try. I do however also understand that it must be an utter annoyance to be bugged by PMs because of a forum that really has little to do with beyond3d itself.

Dave, wouldn't it be possible to give the mods more power? That in turn would free you [the site admins] from those PMs. I don't think 'babysitting' should be necessary.

[Rodéric]

For the record, I've no problem with the Console Forum being removed, I find that it sucks valuable Beyond3D space and bandwidth.

It's just that I don't like the idea of a forum being locked without prior warning.

[Dio]

Dave, I would suggest putting a topic in the console forum to state why it was locked. It will cut down on the whinging and PM's

[darkblu]

Dave,

though i fully understand your position regarding the console forum, i believe it would be a pitty to send it down the drain. the console forum turned up to being a place for 'lightening up' for the beyond3d-core visitors (i've noticed quite a few core visitors dropping by the console forum, me included), and has also proven to be a good place to gather info and gossip about console hw and titles. plus, there are quite a few true contributers in that forum who seem to feel at home there.

please, consider not shutting it down, even if it takes additional moderator effort to baby-sit it. i, for one, would volunteer to join the console mods team and help them in their efforts to keep the signal-noise ratio at proper levels. moreover, lately i've been frequenting the forum almost on par with the core forums, so i could use that time for helping the console mods.

[MfA]

Bah ... I dislike it when people are unable to ignore shit, much more than the actual trolling itself.

Just close it ... moderation is ultimately an excercise in selfdelusion. A community will use the forum as it sees fit, if you dont like it close it. It's your ball, but not your game. A warning wont change anything, maybe if you close it enough to loose most regulars then you can reopen it again ...

[Paul]

Give me another hour and a half and then you can close it.

Please

[zurich]

edit: let me rephrase.

I enjoy the forum and certain posters input, however I think the noise-to-signal problem could be fixed with a well placed bullet or four. However, if the powers that be feel that the console forum's entire existence is an embarassment to Beyond3D, then don't do us any favours.

Sorry for the snarky tone, but what can be said when 3-4 bad apples ruin it for everyone.

[maskrider]

This version of the forum couldn't do too many things the others can. Like Ignore list, warnings threshold before banned, etc.

I feel that those people who causes problems will not wake up until they were older and have more social experience. But the problem is that there will always be many people like that, you simply cannot avoid them.

I would say just remove the forum (although I certainly miss it and the good members that participated in it) and let Beyond3D be Beyond3D without any other non-core stuffs.