[Fox5]

Wow, that AOD group is pretty underhanded.

If blu-ray offers more storage space than AOD, how is it technically inferior? Maybe not supporting the new compression format is, but as a pc user and a gamer, I'd rather have blu-ray, as mpeg 4 compression does nothing for non movie/audio data. Though, as a movie watcher, I'd probably rather have AOD, since it could have longer movies and special features.........wait I don't care about special features 99% of the time, give me my increased storage space, use 2 disks if needed.

[Paul]

It's a good thing they're looking into... uh... Just WTF are they looking into?

And I thought it was only me after I read it..

[Vince]

Originally Posted by Fox5

Though, as a movie watcher, I'd probably rather have AOD, since it could have longer movies and special features.........wait I don't care about special features 99% of the time, give me my increased storage space, use 2 disks if needed.

I don't think there will be a problem, see my and cthellis's post which not only confesses his undying love for Will Smith, but states the BD-ROM capabailities wrt this topic, which are pretty good.

Originally Posted by Cthellis42

It's a good thing they're looking into... uh... Just WTF are they looking into?

I just love how our tax's go towards investigations like this, gotta love big corperations playing hardball.

[Fox5]

So blu-ray is perfectly fine for any movies and special features at full quality?

[Vince]

Originally Posted by Fox5

So blu-ray is perfectly fine for any movies and special features at full quality?

Aslong as it fits, which I, personally, don't know of any that wouldn't, within these bounds - but I'm sure some movie buffs could:

• Single Layer BD-ROM:
• 135m of HD movie data, plus 3 languages of Dolby Digital, and 3hrs of bonus, SD video content
• 135m of HD movie data, plus 3 languages of audio in Dolby Digital, DTS and PCM, and 70 minutes of bonus, SD content.
  
  Dual Layer BD-ROM
• 3hr of HD movie data, plus 3 languages of Dolby Digital and 9 hours of bonus, SD video content
• 3hr of HD movie data, 3 languages of audio in Dolby Digital, DTS and PCM, plus 2 hr of bonus, HD video content.

[Lazy8s]

Vince:

I just love how our tax's go towards investigations like this, gotta love big corperations playing hardball.

So you know specifically which practices, and the legalities of such, are under inquiry from the Justice Department here?

[Deadmeat]

WTF are they looking into?

Blu-Ray group member's voting practices at the DVD forum's HD-DVD voting.

[Deadmeat]

So you know specifically which practices, and the legalities of such, are under inquiry from the Justice Department here?

The industry collusion to prevent the adaption of AOD as HD-DVD standard...

[cthellis42]

Yeah, I finally found that part. Took them a while to get around to it, though... Silly me, I thought the FIRST sentences were usually the ones used to encapsulate the whole situation. o_O

Regardless, I rather doubt anything will come OF this even if there's something TO it. (Anyone know the bylaws of the DVD steering committee offhand? ) Netscape was killed long before anyone seriously looked at Microsoft's actions (and hey, look at the end results of THAT). The HiDef DVD format will go through its paces long before anyone can take a serious look at THAT, either. (If it even gets past this stage.)

[Ty]

Email floating around Sony is to *NOT* delete emails or destroy documents that even mention Blu-Ray. Mind you, nothing from the Justice Department has been officially served to Sony (yet).

[PC-Engine]

LOL wasn't SONY just ousted from the government backed LCD research initiative in Japan because of potential technology leaks? :P

[archie4oz]

Blu-Ray group member's voting practices at the DVD forum's HD-DVD voting.

What does it matter? The majority of the steering commitee members (not to mention the founders) are either in the Blu-Ray group, or backers of it... Sounds more like natural selection to me...

In any case the DVD Forum encompasses only DVD format, and has no say outside of that. The whole point of the then consortium was to hammer out the differences between two formats that were competing for the DVD spec. Either:

a.) The DVD Forum steering committee eventually hammers out a compromise that they can all reasonably accept.

b.) A new consortium is formed to deal with the DVD format's successor.

c.) One group will push it's format out and the industry will simply follow (e.g. Sony and Philips with the CD)

d.) Each group will push it's format out and it will pretty much be a battle for survival of the fittest... (e.g. the ever popular VHS vs. Beta (VHS winning in consumer space, Beta winning in professional space))

Besides, I'm not sure what the Justice Department can do anyways... I mean it's not like this is something that falls strictly under US civil/criminal law jurisdiction...

Email floating around Sony is to *NOT* delete emails or destroy documents that even mention Blu-Ray. Mind you, nothing from the Justice Department has been officially served to Sony (yet)

Really? Must've not gotten that one... :P

Although another Outlook virus made it's rounds today... (*hugs my mac*)

LOL wasn't SONY just ousted from the government backed LCD research initiative in Japan because of potential technology leaks

News to me... Why would there even be a government-backed "LCD research" initiative anyways? As it is, Sony doesn't do much of anything with LCDs other than manufacturing... Most of the display research is focussed towards OLEDs not LCDs.

[PC-Engine]

SONY trying to pull a Rambus and gets the boot

Sony exits government flat-panel project
Kyoko Suzuki and Naoko Fujimura Bloomberg

Back to Start of Article Sony, the world's No. 2 maker of consumer electronics, on Sunday said it had withdrawn from a government-led liquid-crystal display project after setting up a similar venture with Samsung Electronics of South Korea.

The company left because "the government's initiative for this project is to domestically research and develop technology," said a Sony spokesman, Yoshikazu Ochiai. The company in January 2003 joined the program, which has more than two dozen members, including Tohoku University, according to Ochiai.

The Japanese government asked Sony to withdraw from the project because of a risk of leaking information, the state-run NHK television station reported Sunday.

Sony said in October that it would revamp its television business by entering into a venture with Samsung, the world's second-largest maker of semiconductors, to produce liquid-crystal displays by the first quarter of next year. The combination is intended to give Sony a stronger presence in the market for flat-screen televisions.

Sony and Samsung plan to build a flat-panel factory in South Korea that will be capable of making tens of thousands of panels a year by the summer of 2005.

The venture coincides with decisions by computer companies such as Hewlett-Packard, Dell and Gateway to enter the market for products such as slim televisions, digital cameras and portable music players.

Flat-screen TV's, which use either LCD or plasma display panels, are among the best-selling consumer-electronics products for companies including Sharp, Sony and Samsung. Sharp this month said it expected LCD sales to rise 40 percent to ?30 billion, or $6.9 billion, in the year ending March 2005.

Bloomberg News

[cthellis42]

The nature of the government LCD venture is a little curious to me, but I can certainly see why they'd be worried about a major contributor pursuing a private venture along the same lines simultaneously. And I can certainly see why it's more appealing to Samsung and Sony both to consolidate their resources and pursue a private initiative.

[PC-Engine]

The steering committee for the DVD Forum on Friday announced provisional approval for Microsoft's VC-9 and two other video technologies--H.264 and MPEG-2--as mandatory for the HD-DVD video specification for playback devices. VC-9 is the reference title for the underlying video decoding technology within Windows Media Video 9. The approval is subject to several conditions, including an update in 60 days of licensing terms and conditions.

The DVD Forum Steering Committee also approved a near-final version of the HD-DVD specifications for rewritable discs.

http://news.com.com/2100-1041-5166786.html

[london-boy]

Originally Posted by PC-Engine

http://news.com.com/2100-1041-5166786.html

So basically we're gonna have more than one standard? Oh dear...

[MfA]

I dont think this will go ahead very rapidly, the licensing situation with H.264 is piss poor.

The WM-9 licensing seems a lot better, but of course with the specs only (officially) circulating among a select and localized group of companies new patent claims could easily surface whenever it becomes an official standard (and without open drafts and an open standard process judges will likely look more favourable on "late" patent claims against it).

Both licenses are time limited, and offer no limits on rate increases after they expire apart from the standard "reasonable and non discriminatory" stuff.

[rabidrabbit]

I'm a little unknowing of the role of this DVD forum :?

What role did they have in current dvd rom and dvd +r, -r, +rw, -rw and ram formats?

DVD+R and DVD+RW are quite popular, and to me it looks like they are surpassing the popularity of DVD- and DVD-Ram formats.

I have been under impression that DVD+ format was sort of 'rebel' format, not 'approved' by DVD forum, am I wrong?

[london-boy]

Originally Posted by rabidrabbit

I'm a little unknowing of the role of this DVD forum :?

What role did they have in current dvd rom and dvd +r, -r, +rw, -rw and ram formats?

DVD+R and DVD+RW are quite popular, and to me it looks like they are surpassing the popularity of DVD- and DVD-Ram formats.

I have been under impression that DVD+ format was sort of 'rebel' format, not 'approved' by DVD forum, am I wrong?

And i still don't know what the difference is between the "+" and the "-" models... Although nowadays drives are compatible with both... What is the distinction anyway?

[rabidrabbit]

donno, i've bought only +r and +rw discs, 'cos my Plextor can write faster on +'s.
Do the -'es need some formatting prior use? There's also some advantages in post editing in favour of some format, but can't remember which.

[Joe DeFuria]

The + and -R formats are for all intents and purposes mostly identical in terms of functionality / compatibility. Though as noted, the + format tends to lead the -R format in terms of burning speed.

However, there are some notable advantages of the +RW format over the -RW format. The +RW format is more flexible with respect to "on the fly" editing (adding and changing DVD menus, chapter points, inserting and deleting video, etc.) This doesn't matter too much for PC drives (where you re-author with software), but can make a big difference with set-top devices.

The +RW format is also superior to -RW when it comes to using it as a non-video PC data storage device. (I'd have to go and refresh my memory of exactly why though.)

Try www.dvdplusrw.org which is obviously biased toward the + formats, but as far as I can tell, factually accurate.

[cthellis42]

Originally Posted by london-boy

So basically we're gonna have more than one standard? Oh dear...

Seems like it. ...which will only make it slightly more confusing than normal, what with all the plusses and minuses and assorted silliness until players sort out the format support. :P

[randycat99]

I propose a DVD$RW format. All "for", say "I"...

[passerby]

The divide continues, it seems. Look forward to a new generation of competition and incompatibilities...
EETimes:

Matsushita to offer Blu-ray Disk recorders by July

By Yoshiko Hara
EE Times
March 9, 2004 (5:51 p.m. ET)

TOKYO — Matsushita Electric said it will join Sony Corp. in July as the second manufacturer to offer Blu-ray disk recorders.

Matsushita showed a prototype of its Blu-ray DVD-RAM recorder on Tuesday (March 9) that uses a two-layer 50 Gbyte disk. The prototype incorporates tuners that cover all digital TV broadcasting in Japan and is also compatible with present DVD-RAM and DVD-R formats. Other details won't be revealed for another several months, the company said.

Matsushita said it intends to introduce the recorder in Japan before the Athens Olympic Games to be staged in August. During the Olympics, viewers often use video recorders more often, said Shuzo Ushimaru, director of corporate marketing of Matsushita.

Matsushita said sales of DVD-RAM recorders are growing and the company is aiming to to produce 1 million DVD-RAM recorders a month.

Seizing the Athens Olympic games as an opportunity, "we are going to promote [Blu-ray disk] recorders as the high-end product of Diga [Matsushita's brand of DVD-RAM products] series, which can record HD programs," said Etsuji Shuda of Matsushita's Home AV Business Unit.

Matsushita has been developing a two-layer disk structure. Hence, Matsushita's Blu-ray disk recorders will feature recording capability on 50 Gbyte two-layer disks that can store 4.5 hours of HD video.

"It should be the world's first two-layer disk BD recorder," said Shuda. Matsushita also plans to manufacture and supply the two-layer Blu-ray disks.

"As the competing HD DVD supporters will soon introduce two-layered 32 Gbyte disks, 50 Gbyte disks will be one of important feature for Matsushita's BD recorder," said Reiji Asakura, a digital media analyst and acting vice president of the Japan Society of Picture Quality.

[passerby]

The mess continues. The Register is overly flamboyant many times. But here's the article:

DVD Forum provokes HDD spec punch-up
By Faultline
Posted: 09/03/2004 at 11:51 GMT


The infamous DVD Forum has almost certainly provoked all-out warfare within the consumer electronic community with its latest decision - to include Microsoft Windows Media 9 codec in its new high density disk standard.

This move by the self-styled standards body for DVD technology is tantamount to saying that the Japanese originators of the group, among them some of the largest consumer electronic companies in the world, had better step back into line or the entire CE universe will be handed over lock, stock and barrel to US IT firms.

The decision was made at a meeting of the DVD Forum Steering Committee on the 25 and 26 of February, held in Tokyo. A number of resolutions were nodded through and a couple knocked back. Most of the mandatory auditory codecs, the compression coding for sound that will be automatically supported, were knocked back including DD+, DTS++ and MLP as well as AAC as a part of the optional spec. These will be reconsidered and a new list put forward for the group’s next meeting.

However, the steering committee pushed through provisional approval of MPEG2, WM9 (VC-9) and MPEG4 AVC(H.264) video codecs as mandatory for the HD DVD video specification for playback devices. This is subject to an update in 60 days regarding licensing terms and conditions, and a presentation by each of the respective licensing bodies at the next meeting where any of the above codecs might be eliminated.

Telling the big CE firms like Toshiba, Sony, Panasonic and Samsung that they have to make devices with support for Microsoft’s VC-9, resulting in Microsoft getting royalties, is certain to split the forum completely and make it even less effective than it was when it recommended the underlying technology behind its blue laser DVD back in December.

Then Toshiba’s format won the endorsement at the expense of a joint proposal from Sony, Philips and Matsushita. These last three, with their competing Blu Ray format have now gone their separate way and have garnered support from Hewlett-Packard and Dell.

DVDs made using Blue light diode lasers are expected to fit up to five times the storage onto DVDs above the current red laser versions, roughly 20GB. This means that High Definition films plus program extras would fit easily onto a single DVD. Products are not expected for at least two years but a vote for Microsoft will almost certainly mean many of the big Japanese firms pull out, even to the extent of breaking up the forum.

The current format war over rewriteable DVDs continues even now and the +RW format backed by Sony and Philips was not endorsed by the Forum and yet has reasonable, though not dominant market share. At the same meeting a Toshiba representative was voted in as the chairman of the group and three vice chairs were adopted from Time Warner, Intel and Sony. Time Warner will almost certainly be pushing VC-9, while Sony would rather die than use it.

Last year Microsoft submitted its VC-9 codec and the rest of Windows Media 9 to the Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers (SMPTE), but no decision on this has yet been given.

Microsoft has now been set a last hurdle to stumble over. Its royalty terms must be in line with, or better than H.264 for any of the top CE manufacturers to be tempted by it, and that will be made clear in 60 days. It will also have to open up the VC-9 codec to others, something that it has not done until now, as the codec and its origins are shrouded in mystery.

© Copyright 2004 Faultline

Faultline is published by Rethink Research, a London-based publishing and consulting firm. This weekly newsletter is an assessment of the impact of events that have happened each week in the world of digital media. Faultline is where media meets technology. Subscription details here.