[silent_guy]

The number of apps was important during the initial land grab, when you still needed to convince people to switch from a feature to smart phone. It started to lose its meaning long before people stopped using it as an argument. Initial dominance created a positive feedback loop of developers choosing it as their prime platform. It will be a long time before Win something reaches that position. Right now, the money isn't there. People praise metro for its elegance, they don't say "let's buy one to run apps on it".

[french toast]

I may be out of the loop the last few weeks, but didn't Microsoft more or less confirm wp8 upgrade?

[wco81]

Does high-end hardware move most of the volume? I think the popularity of Android, especially in countries with strong prepaid markets (i.e. outside of North America), are the cheap phones, the 99 Euro ones without contract.

Huawei and ZTE aren't sexy brands but they move a lot of units.

So that is how Nokia built its big market share, with cheap phones for Asia and Africa. So WP had to account for low-spec hardware to build volume and share.

[Pressure]

Originally Posted by Arwin

Siri isn't available on the new iPad either. There is only voice dictation, and I am not sure why that is only available on the iPad 3 as it sends data to a server, does no local procressing (save perhaps some data compression, but I doubt that couldn't be handled by the old iPad, or even the iPad 1).

And voice dictation isn't available for my language - I have to set it to English to even see that option. It works quite well for us, but I haven't found it useful yet at all.

Siri is coming with iOS 6 for the new iPad, which is why I am wondering what holds the iPad 2 back from receiving it. After all, it has the exact same SoC as the iPhone 4S. Is it really just the extra audio chip?

[Jubei]

Originally Posted by wco81

Does high-end hardware move most of the volume? I think the popularity of Android, especially in countries with strong prepaid markets (i.e. outside of North America), are the cheap phones, the 99 Euro ones without contract.

Huawei and ZTE aren't sexy brands but they move a lot of units.

So that is how Nokia built its big market share, with cheap phones for Asia and Africa. So WP had to account for low-spec hardware to build volume and share.

You need to take into account that a lot of the chinese/indian Android phones are using forked Android wich means the OS is free. Microsoft wants money to license WP7.5

So considering how small the margins are for these low budget phones i think Nokia is in deep trouble even in this market

[Mize]

Originally Posted by french toast

I may be out of the loop the last few weeks, but didn't Microsoft more or less confirm wp8 upgrade?

Not even close. They've actually pulled back apps for lower RAM WP7/7.5 phones and hinted that NOTHING that's currently for sale can run WP8. There was one person who said something about upgrading a Lumia 900 to WP8 and they quickly retracted it with an oops.

[Dr Evil]

Originally Posted by Grall

And Apple continues showing how you should do mobile OS: iOS6 EVEN SUPPORTS THE iPhone 3DS. (*Edit: 3DS? The Nintendo phone??? 3GS, I meant to say!) This is why Apple has 80+ percent of users using the latest release, when Android only has 7% of its users using its "dairy product".

Well to be honest. Apple often doesn't enable new features on older devices for marketing reasons only and my Ipad 1 became practically useless after Apple made it slow as hell with iOS 5. It was way better straight out of the box, before Apple had done any additional "support" for it.

[pcchen]

Originally Posted by french toast

Those who go on about about '500,000' apps that ios has don't get it. Its not the old apps that count, it's just the top 100-200 games and apps.
No one will bother about wp not getting nova 1 & 2 if it gets the latest version nova 3(for example ).

While this is generally true, but, on the other hand, look how other desktop OSes went with that attitude.
The point of iOS's app store with 500k apps is not that it has so many apps, it's that most app developers actually want to develop for iOS as the favored platform. This is a huge advantage.

This is also why Microsoft wants to bring tablets and desktop PC together with Windows 8: they wants to leverage the dominance of Windows on desktop to piggy back Windows 8 for tablets. If application developers already have to make applications for desktop Windows 8, they'll (supposedly) make small modifications to these applications so that they work on tablets. Then Microsoft won't have to worry about application availability for Windows 8 tablets at all.

[pcchen]

Originally Posted by Dr Evil

Well to be honest. Apple often doesn't enable new features on older devices for marketing reasons only and my Ipad 1 became practically useless after Apple made it slow as hell with iOS 5. It was way better straight out of the box, before Apple had done any additional "support" for it.

Or maybe iPad 1 is just too slow to run iOS 5, not to mention iOS 6? I doubt that Apple deliberately put some for loops in iOS 5 just for iPad 1.

[wco81]

Plus the developers first release on iOS and the quality, especially of the iPad apps., tend to be better.

MS had to pay a lot of developers to get a lot of the apps. They may be able to leverage all the Win32 developers to make W8 apps, including apps for ARM devices. But they're going to use different APIs than what they're used to?

Also, it's still not clear how a W8 app. would work across a widely different range of hardware, from a phone with a lower-end ARM SOC to a Intel desktop, without having the problems Android developers have making their apps. work well across the different ARM SOCs used on Android devices.

[Dr Evil]

Originally Posted by pcchen

Or maybe iPad 1 is just too slow to run iOS 5.

Then don't prompt me to update into it or let me go back to previous version if I so choose.

[pcchen]

Originally Posted by Dr Evil

Then don't prompt me to update into it or let me go back to previous version if I so choose.

Isn't that why iOS 6 not supporting iPad 1?

[wco81]

Other factor may be that older devices have less RAM. That may come into play as much as CPU/GPU differences.

[french toast]

yes Nokia is in knee deep which ever way you look at it.

Ironically symbian is pretty decent now, and is well respected in developing countries no matter what the Weston media says, it has one glaring advantage that android lacks - the ability to run smoothly on arm 11 processors and 256mb ram.

Meego fits into that demographic as a high end symbian, Nokia could have had wp7 as a media focused device for the Weston markets.

Elop has very nearly ruined that company.

[french toast]

ok looks like I'm misinformed. too be honest they need to do this, unfortunately I can't see how people with a wp7 device are going to get any new apps developed for them? there is not enough market share to do it?.

[french toast]

Originally Posted by pcchen

While this is generally true, but, on the other hand, look how other desktop OSes went with that attitude.
The point of iOS's app store with 500k apps is not that it has so many apps, it's that most app developers actually want to develop for iOS as the favored platform. This is a huge advantage.

This is also why Microsoft wants to bring tablets and desktop PC together with Windows 8: they wants to leverage the dominance of Windows on desktop to piggy back Windows 8 for tablets. If application developers already have to make applications for desktop Windows 8, they'll (supposedly) make small modifications to these applications so that they work on tablets. Then Microsoft won't have to worry about application availability for Windows 8 tablets at all.

I don't think developer interest is swayed by the amount of apps on ios, quite the opposite I imagine, they would want less apps = less competition= more money.

developers are attracted to ios because of the money they stand to make and the ease of development.

[Dr Evil]

Originally Posted by pcchen

Isn't that why iOS 6 not supporting iPad 1?

That's a good decision. I no longer have the first iPad, but if I did I would like to downgrade it to iOS 4, which ran great.

Originally Posted by wco81

Other factor may be that older devices have less RAM. That may come into play as much as CPU/GPU differences.

Yep memory is probably the biggest issue with it. iPad 1 with it's paltry 256MB constantly ran out of memory. Even switching between 2 or 3 browser tabs made it reload the pages.

[ltcommander.data]

Originally Posted by Scott_Arm

So, they're doing their own maps because google maps on Android was better? Who else does maps? Seems like a really expensive proposition to cover an app that could be handled by a third party.

Apple appears to have partnered with TomTom for maps and particularly turn-by-turn. They're also using OpenStreetMap data so they're hardly going it alone.

Originally Posted by wco81

I think they look at Maps as a strategic feature, with the potential of location services being the lynchpin for all kinds of transactions.

So Google alienated Apple and isn't going to be allowed to harvest iOS user data for location services.

I agree cutting Google off from harvesting iOS user data was probably a large motivation. A few months ago in testimony to Congress, Google testified that 2/3rds of their mobile search traffic was actually from iOS. This was despite Google's ~2x times marketshare. iOS users are simply more active users than Android users and Apple's steps to excise Google from iOS are probably designed in part to reduce hits rates on Google's services which invariably reduces Google's attractiveness to advertisers, their main revenue source. It won't starve Google, but it'll certainly make them uncomfortable.

Originally Posted by Dr Evil

Yep memory is probably the biggest issue with it. iPad 1 with it's paltry 256MB constantly ran out of memory. Even switching between 2 or 3 browser tabs made it reload the pages.

Well iOS 6 already needs to accommodate 256MB of RAM to support the iPhone 3GS and 4th gen iPod Touch. Lack of iPad 1 support is probably due to the adherence to the usual 3 major iOS versions for device. It's only the 3GS that gets an exception since it's still selling.

[Grall]

Originally Posted by french toast

I don't think developer interest is swayed by the amount of apps on ios, quite the opposite I imagine, they would want less apps = less competition= more money.

So that's why OSX developers are so incredibly rich then?

...Oh, right. Guess that's not the case.

You were saying?

[ltcommander.data]

Originally Posted by Grall

So that's why OSX developers are so incredibly rich then?

...Oh, right. Guess that's not the case.

You were saying?

I thought some developers did point out that when they offer Mac and Linux versions of their programs, sales to Mac and Linux users are disproportionately higher than you would normally expect by comparing their OS installed base vs Windows. Of course it's hard to tell how broadly applicable this is and you probably wouldn't want to base your entire business model on it.

[pcchen]

Originally Posted by ltcommander.data

I thought some developers did point out that when they offer Mac and Linux versions of their programs, sales to Mac and Linux users are disproportionately higher than you would normally expect by comparing their OS installed base vs Windows. Of course it's hard to tell how broadly applicable this is and you probably wouldn't want to base your entire business model on it.

If you don't do much marketing, then yes, it's possible that making applications for a "smaller" platform may give you higher proportion of exposure, and you may be able to profit more from it.

However, most projects (large enough projects, at least) do have marketing. In this case, it's very important to target the platform with most paying customers (or richest customers), because you'll get more bang for the buck from your marketing efforts.

Also, compare Mac/Linux sales to Windows sales is not very useful. Most applications already have Windows version, and they do have marketing for it. For these applications, Mac/Linux versions generally do not need much further marketing (in many case you only have to tell people "Hey! We have Mac/Linux version now!"). However, if you can only afford to develop for one platform, it rarely makes sense to develop solely for the "smaller" platform unless you have prior knowledge that most of your customers prefer that platform.

[french toast]

My point was developers will prioritise the system with the best chance of making profit.

Which includes a lot of factors, market share being number 1, development costs being number 2...likely many others - non of which will be the number of apps on that store, unless that app number translates into more sales, I can't see how it would be a consideration that's all.

[patsu]

I think they look at Maps as a strategic feature, with the potential of location services being the lynchpin for all kinds of transactions.

So Google alienated Apple and isn't going to be allowed to harvest iOS user data for location services.

Originally Posted by ltcommander.data

I agree cutting Google off from harvesting iOS user data was probably a large motivation. A few months ago in testimony to Congress, Google testified that 2/3rds of their mobile search traffic was actually from iOS. This was despite Google's ~2x times marketshare. iOS users are simply more active users than Android users and Apple's steps to excise Google from iOS are probably designed in part to reduce hits rates on Google's services which invariably reduces Google's attractiveness to advertisers, their main revenue source. It won't starve Google, but it'll certainly make them uncomfortable.

IMHO, location-based services such as Maps are indeed strategic for mobile devices. Apple will want to do it themselves even if Google is not in the picture. You can integrate tons of stuff into such geolocation framework, 'specially when technologies improve. Yelp, crowd sourced traffic, public transit info, travel tips, photos, gaming, shopping, etc. can all be part of the geo-experience. It's practically like another Internet in itself. The new PassCards should work well with the Maps app too.

On top of that, user privacy is a high profile, regulated area. It will be in Apple's best interest to keep user data under locks. It can also prevent other companies from using iOS's mobile advertising revenue to subsidize/cheapen competing hardware.

EDIT: Btw, I agree with the OP that Guided Access is totally awesome.

[silent_guy]

FWIW: someone just showed me the 3D maps feature on the iOS 6 beta. It is mind blowing. Night and day difference with the Bing 4-side 45 degree views. The amount of additional detail you get in spying your neighbor's property from random angles is substantial. Very detailed textures...

Not necessarily a must have feature, but just the kind of goodie with high wow factor that makes people buy gadgets.

iPad3 warms up significantly while playing around with it.

[patsu]

Originally Posted by silent_guy

FWIW: someone just showed me the 3D maps feature on the iOS 6 beta. It is mind blowing. Night and day difference with the Bing 4-side 45 degree views. The amount of additional detail you get in spying your neighbor's property from random angles is substantial. Very detailed textures...

Not necessarily a must have feature, but just the kind of goodie with high wow factor that makes people buy gadgets.

iPad3 warms up significantly while playing around with it.

Didn't you watch the keynote video on Apple's website ?