[tuna]

Originally Posted by fearsomepirate

Miyamoto doesn't look at games in terms of content, so he didn't see it as a problem. It's also why the song list in Wii Music was so bad.

This is probably why he (and Nintendo) is so incredibly successful.

[tongue_of_colicab]

Originally Posted by fearsomepirate

While he isn't listed in the credits, it's an EAD game and he's the general manager. I see his philosophy that what makes a game "new" is having a new gimmick, not new content, reflected in City Folk. Miyamoto looks at games from almost a purely mechanical standpoint. You definitely want him on your design team, but he makes a bad executive. A good executive would have looked at what was happening with City Folk and told the team that too much content was recycled from the DS game, and they needed a serious step up if they wanted people to buy it. Miyamoto doesn't look at games in terms of content, so he didn't see it as a problem. It's also why the song list in Wii Music was so bad.

Fitness was weird to the game industry, but not from a general consumer product standpoint (and Nintendo had done something similar on the NES, too). IGN didn't understand the product, but millions of women did immediately.

Haha I saw one of those pad's in a retro gaming store in Osaka just last week. Funny enought they wrote: Wii fit? no, family trainer (or something like that, don't remember the name that well) on it :P

Anyway I doubt it's Miyamoto who is holding Nintendo back. He doesn't have anything to say about hardware budgets (I presume) and only works on input devices but I doubt he is calling the shots there as far as whether or not to release a wiiremote or wiipad is concerned. Though no doubt his opinion is important.

[tongue_of_colicab]

Originally Posted by tuna

This is probably why he (and Nintendo) is so incredibly successful.

That's not what Fearsome is talking about. Miyamoto is great at designing the gameplay elements and game mechanics, but not at creating the actual content (the world) where those mechanics need to work in.

So in case of wii music you could say the gameplay mechanics are really good, but the game fails because the mechanics arent put to good use by the choice of music (which would be Miyamoto's in this case).

Anyway what Fearsome is saying is that have Miyamoto create your game mechanics and gameplay elements and have somebody else build and design the world (content) for those two things to function in.

[Rodéric]

Originally Posted by tongue_of_colicab

Anyway what Fearsome is saying is that have Miyamoto create your game mechanics and gameplay elements and have somebody else build and design the world (content) for those two things to function in.

I'm not sure what you are saying, level are designed not just "created", they are part of the gameplay...
So do you mean you'd like Miyamoto to make everything with boxes/planes then have people skin that ?

[Nesh]

Really Ia m not sure if we can accuse Myiamoto for holding Nintendo back.
His games and ideas established Nintendo in the console market and influenced the course of the gaming industry.
Nintendo managed to retain a very unique image because of him. Some of Nintendo's choices he may have influenced have partially held Nintendo back during some generations and moved them forward during others or done both in the same generation. The N64 use of cartridges for example really imposed memory limitations to developers and cost of unit production was high compared to a CD ROM so developers were more likely to support the PS1 for its medium for cost and memory and Sony's more developer friendly conditions. Nintendo lost Final Fantasy then, one of the reasons being the memory constrains in the cartridge. Regardless the N64 managed to retain its strong Nintendo vision and image in the market although it cost them in other areas.

Myiamoto's games like the Mario 64 were industry changers so he sure moves Nintendo forward in some areas and holds them back in others.
The GC was more or less caught in a middle ground trying to satisfy both the Nintendo fans and the same market the competition was targeting which was a hard task considering the mega successful PS2 and another new competitor aiming for that same market.
Regardless from a business standpoint the GC was a profitable product due to its cheap production and success of its Nintendo games even though its market share was smaller than the money eating powerful XBOX and its support was less.

His vision if thats what resulted to the Wii is what made Nintendo a mega winner this generation. I am not sure Nintendo would have been what it was today if they didnt go for a motion control cheap affordable console with the only aim to be fun just like the old days of gaming.
They surely couldnt compete and cant compete both Sony and MS face to face so they rely on their unique vision which is most likely also shared by Myiamoto.
But at the same time they are victims of their own success and strong/unique image. It cant sustain them forever, and they have caught themselves in a product style that demands different milestones and timelines to consider, different hardware design and development from gen to gen and they have to come up with different and unique ideas of experience each gen to make people interested as much as they were for the Wii (so how many novelties can they come up every time?). The latter is harder to do than adding features and designing more powerful hardware to heighten the level of audiovisual expression in games.
Their effort to create unique ides does some work in favor of competition too. Nintendo comes up with ideas first, competition takes them and refines them and hits them back. The different product lifecycle they were forced to take with the WiiU for example gives enough time to competition to react, unless the WiiU unexpectedly becomes a massive success like the Wii which is probably doubtful this time

[ninzel]

I just think his sensibilities are a little naive and idealistic for the modern gaming world and turn a lot of gamers off .
I personally like his games. I am a gamer who doesn't need every game to be about blood and guns and certainly welcome new ideas and his focus on gameplay.
I find his games and thematic choices charming.
But it's one thing to have that represent a few games, but another thing altogether to have that sensibilities permeate all of Nintendo and it's culture.

[Rodéric]

Originally Posted by ninzel

But it's one thing to have that represent a few games, but another thing altogether to have that sensibilities permeate all of Nintendo and it's culture.

I would think some people are happy to know that Nintendo = family friendly games.
Just like some people think Nintendo = party games. (ie games you play along with friends, not just on your own, should that be called social games ?)

[Shifty Geezer]

There's certainly nothig wrong with brand definition. In fact that's the whole purpose of brand, so people know who to go to when they want something. Nintendo's family-friendly image secures them interest. If they didn't have that, they'd be just another console. Whether Nintendo could add 'core games' to their image and have a broader identitiy, I don't know. PlayStation does cover a wide base, with Sony having supported the likes of SingStar and EyeToy quite significantly, but I don't know that they have a strong association with a family friendly machine. Mixing in core games might just dilute the brand image.

[Bigduo209]

Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer

Mixing in core games might just dilute the brand image.

I don't see anything wrong with having some variety in a games console's library, if anything that's a great driving point. The PS2 and PS1 had several different types of games that everybody could enjoy, and it served them well.

As long as Nintendo heavily markets it's own 1st-party titles, everything should be fine. They can give some incentives to 3rd-parties to extensively market their own titles for the Wii U, but still focus on what Nintendo does best (making fun games for everyone).