[AlStrong]

Originally Posted by pjbliverpool

On consoles or PC?

Both...

I'd imagine playing with a gamepad would require a lot more ammo.

Why? If you normally play shooters on console, do you suddenly just start sucking in a corridor shooter? :s

You know they'd just do auto-aim anyways. >_>

[Richard]

Originally Posted by AlStrong

Dependent?

Yeah. heh, I wanted to say how you can't toggle between different resolutions for better shadow quality as one can with shadow buffers.

hm... I don't suppose that could be moved over to the SPE's, could it?

I do seem to recall a paper on moving the extrusion and volume calculations to the GPU, but I don't remember what the costs were.

Quake 4 had skinning on the GPU for certain parts of the world, btw. IIRC, it was mostly hardware support. In that timeframe you could offload some parts but to have a robust solution you need geometry shaders.

hm... how much work would it be to switch the shadowing solution? IIRC, the lights already know whether to cast shadows or not, and then there are specific flag switches for particular objects with regards to self-shadowing. They don't need to go back and replace the lights, right?

Actually, very little work as JC had shadow buffers working on DOOM 3 before. In fact, prior to the 1.3 patch you still had a lot of deprecated SB CVArs in the game. Take a look at some of them (including HDR) here. If you tried out some of these CVARs the game would complain about a bunch of shadow buffer fragment programs being missing, back then I tried writing a simple hello, world shadow buffer shader but I had no idea what the engine was passing to them (that and my own personal retardation). In fact, from our own forum! EDIT: ha! and you transcribed the whole thing! =) We're getting old.

Even if that wasn't so, as it shipped, the game already makes use of projected textures to simulate complex soft shadows or light falloff. They only support 2D projection but it would be quite trivial to add 3D projection with a cube-map and simply brute-force render everything since the environments are relatively small.

Btw, thanks for that link! I've been meaning to mess around with the source code but I really don't have the time to figure how the whole thing is built on.

Originally Posted by Svensk Viking

Did Quake 4 bring much new over Doom 3 with its updated engine? I know it was a launch game, but it supposedly had a pretty unstable framerate on the 360

Not a whole lot in the back-end, mostly toolchain. It did support ambient light contributions (constant factor, which looked rather bad), high-level shaders rather than D3's ASM and hardware skinning.

Originally Posted by Rodéric

(Also going shadow buffer means models could be more tessellated should anyone want to improve them.)

I'd be happy if they'd just use the drawn mesh instead of the lower-poly shadow hulls.

[Richard]

Ah... nice, I'm re-reading that thread from 2004 and reminiscing about the NV30, rabid fans everywhere and (interesting) Carmack keynotes.

[Cyan]

Originally Posted by swaaye

The best Doom1 soundtrack was on the 3DO console. Forget the MIDI sound card nonsense.

You remind me of my brothers when first listened to the MIDI files I had on my PC many years ago. I know that MIDI is associated with cheesy and tizzy music.

MIDI is very exposed in the sense that a MIDI file is not music by itself. It's just a file telling what instruments to use, what those instruments have to do, their volume, pan, and a hundreds of other things. And it only weighs a few Kylobytes.

By exposed I mean that you can download the last Lady Gaga MIDI file and find that it sounds a bit flat and lifeless in your OS.

Without reverb, chorus, etc, and using a bad synth, then there is not much you can do. Your sound using MIDI is as good as your synthesizer is.

I am oversimplifying things, but an MP3/CD Audio would be a MIDI recorded in a professional studio.

Also Karaoke is a MIDI file --midis can include the lyrics of a song, and even an instrument can imitate the notes of a singer's voice, and each note is related to a syllable.

Most computers use Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth, which is better than nothing and certainly better than most soundcard synths from more than a decade ago. But it's mono and have been created to run on slow computers.

I can certainly understand how it's difficult to get to know MIDI tremendous potential. But it's such a versatile resource....

In fact, music produced these days is made using MIDI as a resource.

You can change everything, and I mean everything, on the fly. Instruments (you could play the Indiana Jones song for instance, modifying wind instruments to transform them into guitars, pianos, etc etc), effects, tempo....with control wheels and knobs.

Create a drum line, a bass line, and so on.

The video you posted sounds like MIDI to me, although the guitar seems to be humanized --the drums are certainly synthesized music, also the reverb effect is obvious.

I have sometimes had people fooled into thinking that they were hearing actual live recordings instead of sheer synthesized sound.

I have been creating a soundfont myself -I recorded how it sounds-



..... and I published it this weekend. It's a 2GB General MIDI soundfont with 128 melodic presets and 21 drum kits.

It can be downloaded here:

Musica 7 2GB Soundfont - Part 1 (170 mb)

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?2m6a4jaz76daqs5

Musica 7 2GB Soundfont - Part 2 (170 mb)

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?9x8r21cfecg3y56

Musica 7 2GB Soundfont - Part 3 (170 mb)

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?iial82y9gqrjmzn

Musica 7 2GB Soundfont - Part 4 (136 mb)

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?v6lnaysno8k027i

The individual files have to be decompressed with WinRAR ( http://www.rarlab.com/ ) or similar to merge them.

The downloaded file itself is compressed with SFPACK ( http://www.personalcopy.com/sfpack.htm ), from 1,85GB to 654MB. You need SFPACK to uncompress it.

Blazkowicz; just a quick note, for old Doom games they could use almost any Soundfont irregardless of the size if they follow the approach of the BassMIDI driver, which only loads the instruments that the music needs, so they don't have to load the whole soundfont in RAM for every song, just the instruments that the song needs within the soundfont.

Also, now that I think of it, they don't have to use the whole General MIDI 128 melodic presets, just the ones used for the music.

For instance, in my Doom 1 folder, there is the midi of the song swaaye posted, and the melodic presets/instruments are: Electric Bass (finger), Electric Muted Guitar, Overdriven Guitar, Distortion Guitar and Standard drum kit.

Now that I think of it, I also have Doom and Doom 2 on the Xbox 360... Someday I will test them to see how they sound, out of curiosity. They sounded pretty much like the original to me, if I remember correctly from the last time I played.

[swaaye]

lol I really wasn't looking for a MIDI lecture. I have spent a lot of time with games and MIDI possibilities. Found some neat soundfonts. But to be honest these days I tend to prefer FM synthesis or the interesting MT32 linear algorithmic synthesis.

I like the Doom 3DO soundtrack because there are clearly some human musicians in there and it sounds awesome at times. It's also the only redeeming quality of that port.

[Reiko]

Id Software Talks Doom 3: BFG Edition on PS3
Quote:
PSB: How about the first two games – was anything tweaked there for PS3?

EW: They are pretty much straight ports, but I will say that they run really fast at 60 frames per second, even with four-player split screen play going on. If you’ve got a big TV that’s really going to stand out. The guys basically wrote it from scratch to get it working on PS3.

Quote:
PSB: So there’s the addition of the mounted flashlight to the game. Has anything else been modified for PS3?

EW: We’re making textural improvements to the characters and demons. We’ve completely rewritten the network code so that multiplayer is a better experience. In addition there’s also the Lost Mission Pack, containing seven new levels. They pick up from a certain part of the story line in the main game – without giving too much away, it’ll all make sense when you play it. You’re a different guy in a different part of the base but it’s the same world.

Quote:
PSB: How do you balance staying true to the original game with making improvements?

EW: Your first inclination is to make big sweeping changes because it’s something that you’ve looked at for a long time, so it doesn’t feel fresh anymore. We’ve really focused on keeping the core experience there. From talking to people on the show floor, a lot of them weren’t too happy with the idea of the flashlight as something separate. So integrating the flashlight into your main weapon seemed like a no-brainer, yet even then we still had people say they wanted to play the original way.

Another piece of feedback we had was that the game was too dark, so we’ve lit it some more here and there and tried to lead the player’s eye a little more. So there’ll be two modes – the original, unchanged version of Doom 3 and the updated one.


http://blog.us.playstation.com/2012/...dition-on-ps3/

[RenegadeRocks]

I heard there's some form of co-op in there too.

Good that they have kept the option of playing the original d3 way.

[kagemaru]

they run really fast at 60 frames per second, even with four-player split screen play going on.

That's mighty impressive.

So there’ll be two modes – the original, unchanged version of Doom 3 and the updated one.

Awesome, exactly what I wanted to see. So sold on this release.

[AlStrong]

Originally Posted by kagemaru

That's mighty impressive.

They're just 2D games.

[kagemaru]

Originally Posted by AlStrong

They're just 2D games.

Damn it, I didn't read the question properly and thought he was talking about Doom 3.

[assurdum]

Originally Posted by Reiko

Id Software Talks Doom 3: BFG Edition on PS3
Quote:
PSB: How about the first two games – was anything tweaked there for PS3?

EW: They are pretty much straight ports, but I will say that they run really fast at 60 frames per second, even with four-player split screen play going on. If you’ve got a big TV that’s really going to stand out. The guys basically wrote it from scratch to get it working on PS3.

Quote:
PSB: So there’s the addition of the mounted flashlight to the game. Has anything else been modified for PS3?

EW: We’re making textural improvements to the characters and demons. We’ve completely rewritten the network code so that multiplayer is a better experience. In addition there’s also the Lost Mission Pack, containing seven new levels. They pick up from a certain part of the story line in the main game – without giving too much away, it’ll all make sense when you play it. You’re a different guy in a different part of the base but it’s the same world.

Quote:
PSB: How do you balance staying true to the original game with making improvements?

EW: Your first inclination is to make big sweeping changes because it’s something that you’ve looked at for a long time, so it doesn’t feel fresh anymore. We’ve really focused on keeping the core experience there. From talking to people on the show floor, a lot of them weren’t too happy with the idea of the flashlight as something separate. So integrating the flashlight into your main weapon seemed like a no-brainer, yet even then we still had people say they wanted to play the original way.

Another piece of feedback we had was that the game was too dark, so we’ve lit it some more here and there and tried to lead the player’s eye a little more. So there’ll be two modes – the original, unchanged version of Doom 3 and the updated one.


http://blog.us.playstation.com/2012/...dition-on-ps3/

They tried to said even in this game ps3 give a problem to maintain stable 60 fps now? Because here I missed the point to be so proud because four player splitscreen is really fast ... I'm starting to be a bit worried if this for id are remarkable results on the ps3...

[Cheezdoodles]

Originally Posted by assurdum

They tried to said even in this game ps3 give a problem to maintain stable 60 fps now? Because here I missed the point to be so proud because four player splitscreen is really fast ... I'm starting to be a bit worried if this for id are remarkable results on the ps3...

4 player split screen at 60fps is quite impressive IMO. Cod is not 60fps 4 man

[N_B]

Originally Posted by Cheezdoodles

4 player split screen at 60fps is quite impressive IMO. Cod is not 60fps 4 man

It would have been impressive in 1994

[almighty]

A standard 7600 GT can run Doom 3 on Ultra at 1920x1080 with 4xAA at 40fps so I expected more from this.

Would of liked to at least of seen native 1080 rendering.

[Gubbi]

Originally Posted by almighty

A standard 7600 GT can run Doom 3 on Ultra at 1920x1080 with 4xAA at 40fps so I expected more from this.

The RSX is effectively equivalent to a 7600GT when it comes to stencil performance. Doom 3 is a ROP fest.

Cheers

[Sigfried1977]

In the light of all the other last-gen remakes, Doom 3 at 60 fps (is there AA?) doesn't seem all that shabby to me. Shadow of the Colossus only runs at 30 fps with a similar resolution and people still praised Bluepoint's efforts for the remaster. Heck, the Jak trilogy is actually sub-720p.

[Cyan]

Originally Posted by Sigfried1977

In the light of all the other last-gen remakes, Doom 3 at 60 fps (is there AA?) doesn't seem all that shabby to me. Shadow of the Colossus only runs at 30 fps with a similar resolution and people still praised Bluepoint's efforts for the remaster. Heck, the Jak trilogy is actually sub-720p.

What can I say, 100% agreed.

There were games like Half Life 2 that I expected to run at 60 fps on consoles, seeing how superior these consoles were compared to the hardware of the time, yet it runs at 30 fps on the PS3 and Xbox 360.

There are some more similar examples where I expected better, but I don't remember the name of those games exactly.

Originally Posted by Gubbi

The RSX is effectively equivalent to a 7600GT when it comes to stencil performance. Doom 3 is a ROP fest.

Cheers

Well, PS3 and Xbox 360 are fixed hardware, which has its advantages -in this case- and some disadvantages. We will see in the final version.

I am fine with it.

Consoles are like real life. You can't upgrade your girlfriend.

[Nesh]

Originally Posted by Cyan

Consoles are like real life. You can't upgrade your girlfriend.

Sure you can! You can add silicon to the chambers and also teach the AI a few new tricks which will perform better in time by correcting the errors.

[Cyan]

Originally Posted by Nesh

Sure you can! You can add silicon to the chambers and also teach the AI a few new tricks which will perform better in time by correcting the errors.

Now that is an upgrade, people!

Adding to your comment, if you have a girlfriend who is the debil, patheticness at its best, and she leaves one fine morning, if you find a much more understanding woman, that would be also an upgrade.

[Kaotik]

Originally Posted by Cheezdoodles

4 player split screen at 60fps is quite impressive IMO. Cod is not 60fps 4 man

You do realize that the 60 FPS 4-man thing is for Doom 1 & 2, not Doom 3, right?

[Aeoniss]

Originally Posted by Cyan

Now you touched my weak point. I have only 7 videos on my Youtube account, just to show the sound quality of different soundfonts.

I am very, very proud of this one I uploaded minutes ago and the Future World by Helloween one. Sounds better than any CD to me at least:



MIDI music is and sounds amazing -if you have a fine General MIDI sounfont- .

I always added a very quick tutorial in my 7 Youtube videos -Description section- to help people to have a nice setup going from the very beginning. It's pretty easy.

As for Doom 3, it was my favourite game in the PS2/Xbox/GC generation. I was so proud of having an Xbox because it was able to run this game....

http://solkrieg.newgrounds.com/audio/

Thought you might appreciate some of my brother's work here, lots of video game remixes. He messes with MIDI's quite a bit too. It's how he got his start.

So what's the deal here with the Doom 3 multiplayer? I wasn't even aware it had much in the way of competitive MP..

And how does this fare against the pre-existing, and extensively modded, PC version of the original Doom 3?

[Cyan]

Originally Posted by Aeoniss

http://solkrieg.newgrounds.com/audio/

Thought you might appreciate some of my brother's work here, lots of video game remixes. He messes with MIDI's quite a bit too. It's how he got his start.

So what's the deal here with the Doom 3 multiplayer? I wasn't even aware it had much in the way of competitive MP..

And how does this fare against the pre-existing, and extensively modded, PC version of the original Doom 3?

OMG, I am quite impressed and feel like a noob compared to him. In fact the song featured in the video of the quote has a lot of mistakes -I mixed it using the worst speakers you can imagine, laptop speakers that vibrate so easily-.

I am listening to your brother's songs and I wonder if Siegfried77 would love his Bramble Blast version, because it is so chilling, warm and captivating... Some of his Castlevania versions are quite eerie and authentic sounding, and I wonder what soft or hard synthesizer he uses.

Software wise I use Synthfont, Music Creator 6, FL Studio 10, and NoteWorthy Composer, mostly.

Before I forget, which game is his Clock Tower song from? I think I am in love with that song and I can't quite put my finger on what game it is from.

Your brother sounds like a fine composer to learn from. Send my congrats to him. PLEASE DO!!! I loved some of his songs) -my least favourite was the Bolero of Fire V2, because while the song is good it didn't sound as finely mixed as many others from his collection-.

I change some songs, try to create some music too, but it's mostly a hobby for me. My last uploaded video -I have 11, and I upload them from time to time, quite slowly- was meant to show certain sounds of the Roland TTS-1 soft synth and a soundfont. They sounded very realistic to me with those synths and I created a video about it.

Finally, I wouldn't mind to give him some feedback but here I don't think I have any. Wish him good luck.

Regarding multiplayer, wish I could help, but I didn't have a Live account on the Xbox 1 when I played Doom 3 so I never tried it.

[kagemaru]

Edit:

Nevermind, looks like they fixed the price. Hope they still honor the discounted price for me.

[N_B]

Carmack's keynote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt-iV...=youtu.be&hd=1

He mentions Doom 3 is typically more demanding for the consoles than Rage and there's some idtech 5 stuff put in.

[Reiko]

Originally Posted by N_B

Carmack's keynote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt-iV...=youtu.be&hd=1

He mentions Doom 3 is typically more demanding for the consoles than Rage and there's some idtech 5 stuff put in.

Interesting...