[Sigfried1977]

Nice tune. I'd like to hear your take on Stickerbrush Symphony. I think it's probably the best tune on the DK Country 2 OST. (and it even sounds fantastic straight out of a SNES)

[Cyan]

Originally Posted by Sigfried1977

Nice tune. I'd like to hear your take on Stickerbrush Symphony. I think it's probably the best tune on the DK Country 2 OST. (and it even sounds fantastic straight out of a SNES)

I know of that song thanks to you. I listened to it on Youtube after you told me about it and alas I realized I missed that song back in the time.

I only played the original DKC on the SNES before moving to PC. Thanks for sharing, Sigfried1977, I am thinking about trying to add my own flavour to it, someday.

I listened to the song in the original SNES sound, and it sent chills down my spine. What a lovely melody.

On a different note, I still have Final Doom from the very late 90s -I kept it in the box of a Diablo 2 Battlechest bundle-, Ultimate Doom and Doom 2.

I love listening to the MIDI music of the originals using great soundfonts, especially if you add some mods to play the game in true 3D. It runs so smooth, and looks good. I wonder how iD are going to implement the music in the old versions of Doom.

But I know that the music of Doom was created with the Roland Sound Canvas 55 in mind -Carmack said that it was the synthesizer they used-.

I have the Roland Soundfont. It is 10MB, not much these days -Titanic is 275MB, SoniVOX is 250-, SGM is 250MB, Crisis 3.01 is 3,4GB....!!!

Even so, it has a very balanced, warm sound, regardless the limitations of the time. It's amazing what Roland engineers could do with just that memory for samples.

p.s. I played the game on a SoundBlaster AWE32 featuring the 1MB General Midi Wavetable. Fine for its very very small size, Doom sounded decent on it, but not even close to the Roland SC-55.

[fearsomepirate]

Originally Posted by NRP

This must be the only way iD can make money these days . . . re-release old shit.

I can't wait for the Rage re-release with the missing second half of the game.

[Richard]

To be fair, they re-released DOOM with extra maps two years after the original (Ultimate DOOM). Releasing this 8 years after DOOM 3 shipped is relatively tame by comparison.

[Rangers]

oooh, ohh, juicy carmack hardware tweet alert

https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/st...57388987895810

Spektrum Sieci ‏@SpektrumSieci

@ID_AA_Carmack @DOOM is there any chance to see more "next gen effects" like DOF and a bit more tessellated meshes in Doom3BFG on PS3?



John Carmack John Carmack ‏@ID_AA_Carmack

@SpektrumSieci @DOOM Just getting Doom 3 BFG to 60fps on the PS3 is more challenging than you would think. Stencil shadows are raster pigs.

[swaaye]

The best Doom1 soundtrack was on the 3DO console. Forget the MIDI sound card nonsense.

[AlStrong]

Originally Posted by Rangers

oooh, ohh, juicy carmack hardware tweet alert

https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/st...57388987895810

Seems a bit odd... You'd think it would perform pretty decently since the 7600GT (8ROPs@560MHz, 700MHz GDDR3) does quite well @ 1280x1024 from what I recall.

[swaaye]

Maybe they are trying to make sure it is 60 fps without exception or are adding some MSAA.

[Reiko]

Originally Posted by Rangers

oooh, ohh, juicy carmack hardware tweet alert

https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/st...57388987895810

Figured the game was going to be 60fps.

60fps trailer validated

[Kameradschaft]

Originally Posted by AlStrong

Seems a bit odd... You'd think it would perform pretty decently since the 7600GT (8ROPs@560MHz, 700MHz GDDR3) does quite well @ 1280x1024 from what I recall.

It's an old engine for sure but maybe they're adding new visual stuff and 1280*720 @ 60fps is still a challenge? I always had the impression that the Doom 3 engine wasn't doing very well with this gen's systems, Quake 4 & Prey (to a lesser extent) on 360 were not ideal ports with plenty of frame-rate drops IIRC.

[assurdum]

Originally Posted by Kameradschaft

It's an old engine for sure but maybe they're adding new visual stuff and 1280*720 @ 60fps is still a challenge? I always had the impression that the Doom 3 engine wasn't doing very well with this gen's systems, Quake 4 & Prey (to a lesser extent) on 360 were not ideal ports with plenty of frame-rate drops IIRC.

I'm not so sure about this honestly... he talking of sharper shadow gives problems of raster (reading the quote posted)... always curious to know how would work MLAA sony solution to sharp the shadow because to me could be a smarter solution...

[swaaye]

Doom3's stencil shadows are razor sharp blocky chunky things already. What do you mean by sharper?

[Blazkowicz]

it's CPU hungry, though I had good results with an XP2400+ and 6800GT. that CPU may have a steadier single-thread performance than Xenon or PPU, for generic code.
shadow volumes are generated on the CPU and I remember reading this is the main reason for blocky heads and disappearing corpses.

the engine was also designed with no consideration for multi-threading, there's only so much you can bolt on after the fact. it's impressively old, was first demoed on a PowerPC G4 1GHz with the original geforce 3 before its release, before 911.

oh, I quickly found the video, head for 4:20 when steve jobs says "We're about to ship Mac OS ten", then he introduces john carmack. carmack comes on stage and shakes hand, then he almost runs to a row of computer terminals right away . I'd love to do that
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_buON1G17E

[swaaye]

The engine got SMP support for Quake4. Surely they'll use that capability here.

[assurdum]

Originally Posted by swaaye

Doom3's stencil shadows are razor sharp blocky chunky things already. What do you mean by sharper?

My apologies, I have misunderstood the terms of stencil shadows, by the way I just suggesting whether use lower resolution for the shadows on the ps3 & fixed with MLAA of sony could be a smart solution if possible...

[Blazkowicz]

I ran the game on a 3dfx card (yes, I tried hard running things on it) and the shadows were there. the impact on the framerate wasn't that big, I could very roughly get 15 fps with and 20 fps without.
no pixel shaders involved, of course if you run the game that way there's no normal maps, no specular and the characters look horrendous but I was happy to have my real-time, correct shadows.

you can enable stencil shadows in quake 3, or they are there by default in Kingpin, an awesome quake 2 based shooter :

you only need some stencil in the Z hardware thing, so you can find stencil shadows in old games. the first Voodoo Graphics qualifies. btw from geforce fx onwards, nvidia had very fast Z and stencil hardware. the lame-duck geforce FX 5800 feels like it was designed for running doom 3 well and nothing else (it gets good framerates, for real)

old games just draw a pitch black silhouette on the ground with no respect for accuracy, in quake 3 this gives a weird behaviour so after the novelty you feel like switching to simple blob shadow.
doom 3 is unique in doing complex calculations each frame so that the shadows look real. only they are fatally razor sharp, which is one factor for the engine going nowhere and being something of a dead-end (but a great one at that)

[Richard]

Originally Posted by assurdum

My apologies, I have misunderstood the terms of stencil shadows, by the way I just suggesting whether use lower resolution for the shadows on the ps3 & fixed with MLAA of sony could be a smart solution if possible...

Stencil shadows are resolution independent as they are generated from geometry: that's why people on this thread are describing them as razor sharp. And DOOM 3 does the silhouete calculation on the CPU. To improve performance most props and characters have lower-poly meshes that are only used for this purpose: that's why shadows are blocky.

JC could, however, switch to shadow buffers. He's had them up and working in the engine at one point (before they cancelled Darkness and started on Rage). I'm positive most people would prefer that over the time he's spending on his VR goggles.

Besides, the PS3 not being able to maintain 60fps means what to me and the PC version of the BFG edition? Just stick with DOOM 3 + sikkmod + HD texture mods.

[AlStrong]

Originally Posted by Richard

Stencil shadows are resolution independent as they are generated from geometry: that's why people on this thread are describing them as razor sharp.

Dependent?

DOOM 3 does the silhouette calculation on the CPU

hm... I don't suppose that could be moved over to the SPE's, could it?

I do seem to recall a paper on moving the extrusion and volume calculations to the GPU, but I don't remember what the costs were.

JC could, however, switch to shadow buffers.

hm... how much work would it be to switch the shadowing solution? IIRC, the lights already know whether to cast shadows or not, and then there are specific flag switches for particular objects with regards to self-shadowing. They don't need to go back and replace the lights, right?

[Rodéric]

Originally Posted by AlStrong

hm... how much work would it be to switch the shadowing solution? IIRC, the lights already know whether to cast shadows or not, and then there are specific flag switches for particular objects with regards to self-shadowing. They don't need to go back and replace the lights, right?

It wouldn't take that long, iD engines are rather straight to the point as far as code goes, so modifying it shouldn't be much of a problem.
That would mean more GPU memory used, but less CPU time (as skinning would go on GPU where it belong ;p) and less fillrate waste (stencil shadow volumes are quite fillrate intensive).

You would need to modify the shaders to add skinning and add shadow buffer fetchs and filtering, and modify CPU code to remove all loading of shadow volumes (some where pre computed AFAIR), skinning and silhouette detection.
(Also going shadow buffer means models could be more tessellated should anyone want to improve them.)

[Svensk Viking]

Did Quake 4 bring much new over Doom 3 with its updated engine? I know it was a launch game, but it supposedly had a pretty unstable framerate on the 360

[Grall]

The new stuff it brought was rudimentary multicore support I believe; the two games look very similar in appearance. If it had been done today it would run much more fluidly even on a paltry 360.

[Grall]

*Edit:
Why do posts of mine appear randomly in other threads than the one I posted it in? *shrug*

Second time this happens now!

[AlStrong]

https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/st...06516793606144

Originally Posted by John Carmack

the data sets are identical across PC/360/PS3, but every level is getting more lights and ammo than the original had.

hm... Wonder if he's moving to deferred for this.

Anyways, I certainly didn't think ammunition was ever a problem for Doom 3. >_>

Neat overview/review of the Doom 3 source code: http://fabiensanglard.net/doom3/index.php

Specifically about the renderer:
http://fabiensanglard.net/doom3/renderer.php

[N_B]

:\ Mounted flaslight, more lights, are they trying to take out the scares

[pjbliverpool]

Originally Posted by AlStrong

Anyways, I certainly didn't think ammunition was ever a problem for Doom 3. >_>

On consoles or PC? I'd imagine playing with a gamepad would require a lot more ammo.