[Frank]

Less than a month left, time for a thread.

I'm actually surprised there isn't one yet.

Anyway, I'm very cautiously optimistic: SURELY they learned from the Oblivion comments, right? Right?

Then again, it was a huge success, and they did Fallout 3 next. Which was definitely better. But while I rate Morrowind highly (not up to Deus Ex, but close) and had a good time with Fallout 3 for a bit until I got bored (and I think mutants and decapitation look better in low-res 2D), Oblivion was a bummer.

What I hope and would like:

- A pretty static world with moderate levelling of creatures at appropriate locations. "Don't go North! You'll die." And things like shrines/gates or whatever. But make them hard to start with, and easier when you are Badass.

- Lots of really cool and different places to visit. Irrelevant and minor, but unique details everywhere are especially appreciated, and throw in some spectacular highlights. They don't have to have any other function than looking nice and unique.

- Really interesting storylines and quests that require thinking and trying, like the main quest in Morrowind.

- Feeling really wimpy at level 1, and really Badass at high level. Until you meet that Lich (or whatever seriously powerful creature, or group) that pwns you completely in seconds when you waltz in, unprepared.

- Easy enchanting (the cool stuff as well), much less restricted alchemy, and especially levitation!

- Lots of cool and unique artefacts to loot or (especially) steal. And ESPECIALLY no psychic and teleporting guards.

- NOT geared towards hack and slash, and restricting anything that might make it less "challenging"!

- I would really like it if not every critter/hostile NPC would immediately beeline, jump and try to decapitate you as soon as they see you.

- No quest compass and fast-travel by clicking.

- And lots of other stuff. But mostly: I hope it'll be immersive and rewarding. Which was where Oblivion scored really bad.


Let's look at it like this: how much do I mod the game before playing it?

1. Deus Ex: I tend to increase ammo capacity and ammo drop rates a bit for the silent weapons (but could do without), use a DX9+ shader and would like better models and textures. (Across the board, not a patchwork.)
2. Morrowind: Better Bodies are a must, a belt with one point of slowfall and water breathing are convenient but not required. Other mods (visual and content) are mostly used once, to try and see.
3. Fallout 3: It misses a bit of "vibe", so it needs some mods to spice it up. It looks and feels somewhat bland overall, and there isn't all that much accomplishment. Level(ing) mods are a must. Lots of interesting places and items, though.
4. Oblivion: It needs a shitload of mods before I'll even contemplate playing it. It got bland pretty fast the first time. It's mostly all the same: if you played it for a bit, went to a city and cave, you've seen most of it. Lots of potential, but you need that (and all those mods) to make it actually worth playing.


What I have seen and heard so far:

The good:

- The looks.
- Enchanting!
- Zoom from point-blank to mini-map.

The Bad:

- Bland magic.
- Finishing moves and third person cinematics.
- No RPG mechanics during combat (it's a FPS).

[homerdog]

For Oblvion:
https://sites.google.com/site/jorgeoscuro/

Also the AF Level Mod is required.

It's a really good game once you change EVERYTHING

[John Reynolds]

Especially the Dark Brotherhood quest line created by Emil Pagliarulo, that really sucked.

Skyrim's use of the Fallout perk system should add some nice variety to character creation. I have no faith the main storyline won't suck balls, but we'll see. Hoping the alchemy and crafting are both more robust than previous titles.

[homerdog]

In short, we need more Morrowind, less Oblivion. And of course make it as glitch-free as possible. And use a completely different leveling system because the Oblivion system sucks and makes the game not fun. Standing in your bedroom casting fireball spells at the wall so you'll get the +5 modifier on Willpower.. Yipee!!

[John Reynolds]

Originally Posted by homerdog

In short, we need more Morrowind, less Oblivion. And of course make it as glitch-free as possible. And use a completely different leveling system because the Oblivion system sucks and makes the game not fun. Standing in your bedroom casting fireball spells at the wall so that you'll get the +5 modifier on Willpower.. Yipee!!

Which is what Morrowind let you do too.

The system can certainly be abused but it feels more logical to me than levelling up because you FedEx'd another bushel to that farmer, and pumped all your new stat points into intelligence rather than strength or stamina. If you don't want to level up by firing spells off into thin air or by standing in a corner jumping for an hour thanks to that hardcover book you set on your space bar, then don't do it.

[homerdog]

It sucked in Morrowind too.

Look up the AF Level Mod for Oblivion. It makes way more sense IMO.

[swaaye]

I'm mostly interested in the game as a sandbox virtual world again. That's all I really care about in these TES games. I'm wondering what they've done this time around, if the AI's more interesting and how dynamic things are. Will almost every animal in the forest will automatically attack and come at you in a beeline? Will the world feel more impressionable / permanent? Have they improved the mostly-stupid persuasion game? And hopefully combat is again improved this time around, although I do realize it's using Bethesda's bizzaro RPG+FPS dynamics so you can shoot 40 arrows into an enemy's head, etc.

It has been years since I really played Oblivion so I've forgotten many of its quirks. They hired a few of the people who made some amazing gameplay mods so I think Skyrim should be interesting. But since Oblivion's hype machine was so loaded with bullshit, I have actively avoided the interviews and previews this time.

[Sxotty]

Originally Posted by Frank

- No quest compass and fast-travel by clicking.

Really? Why are people such goofballs about this? If you don't want to fast travel then DON'T. Taking away options others like b/c you want a game a certain way is just silly.

[Richard]

I agree completely.

Also, Oblivion had far greater problems than its travel system. It wasn't perfect but it was a masterpiece in comparison to say... inventory management.

Anyway, I just hope Skyrim will have a saner NPC levelling system + better animations. These two things alone would improve the game tremendously.

[Malo]

Yeah one of the first RPG-hardcore mods available for Oblivion simply removed the quick travel.

[Davros]

I remember spending hours looking for a particular cave in morrowind and in gothic 3. In gothic 3 I had to use noclip and wireframe to find the cave. /was not fun

[John Reynolds]

Originally Posted by Richard

Anyway, I just hope Skyrim will have a saner NPC levelling system + better animations. These two things alone would improve the game tremendously.

No doubt. I've read Bethsoft is make it more similar to the new Fallout games. So no more level 50 nordic warrior being knocked on his ass by a rat.

[trinibwoy]

Originally Posted by Sxotty

Really? Why are people such goofballs about this? If you don't want to fast travel then DON'T. Taking away options others like b/c you want a game a certain way is just silly.

Yup it's a single player game. No reason to remove optional features or abilities. I'm already spending mucho time on Fallout 3 even with fast travel. Can't imagine the benefit of wasting time in real life walking around in a video game.

Playing the game as is, none of the mods I've seen are worth the effort required to install them.

[xatnys]

I'm expecting the art direction to be much improved; preview shots suggest it has, thankfully. Also, perhaps this is excessive, but I hope there are no unkillable NPCs -- even important NPCs should be killable. Magic that affects other NPCs indirectly shouldn't automatically be able to place blame on you and cause nearby guards to hunt you down. Seamless setting transitions are probably a pipe dream, since it's being developed for consoles as well, but the level of immersion would be so much better without loading screens interrupting the experience.

Regarding fast travel, I could live without it if the world were actually worth walking around in. In oblivion this wasn't really the case. There were variations of forests / volcanoes / deserts, but nothing particularly striking. You don't have that feeling of moving from one epic set piece to the next. It was just pretty, and bland. It was pretty bland .

[Richard]

Originally Posted by trinibwoy

Playing the game as is, none of the mods I've seen are worth the effort required to install them.

Heh, it almost seems like TES modders don't want people to admire their hard work, isn't it? I have an install checklist just to have a handful of mods plus their dependencies. Reminds of the bad Windows 3.1-95 days of vbrun300.dll

[Malo]

Originally Posted by Davros

I remember spending hours looking for a particular cave in morrowind and in gothic 3. In gothic 3 I had to use noclip and wireframe to find the cave. /was not fun

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here? Are you saying you would want quick travel locations even before you find the location for the first time?

[Colourless]

Levelling in Morrowind was completely broken as far as i am concerned. It seems good on paper but once you start playing and 'figure' it out the entire system falls apart. As with Oblivion if you focus on your non primary skills, whether intentionally or by accident, it just breaks. I started a theifish character in Morrowind who then started dabbling in spell casting and enchanting. The game quickly becomes unbalanced in my favour.

Oh it needs to be said, Skyrim is Fallout with swords and bows. In this case is probably more true than Fallout is Oblivion with guns. Sounds like quite a few gameplay changes in Fallout 3 are being brought over to Skyrims.

[swaaye]

Oblivion has a really tedious and ridiculous design that requires a lot of gaming the leveling system to get the most out of it. Honestly, I don't really pay much attention to this stuff because it is the least interesting part of RPG gaming for me. But if you want to get the most out of your character, you have to minimize character level increases and maximize skill bonuses. You have to plan out which skills are major and which are minor, and the way it works only makes sense to somebody at Bethesda. You aren't just fighting stat points, but also the world level scaling. It feels like a class in accounting to me. No thanks.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Leveling

I suppose the goal was to make it so you can't possibly screw up horribly and make the game unbeatable. The result however is a real nightmare to obsessive compulsive RPG stat-oriented folks who can't sleep at night if their character isn't "optimized".

[Sxotty]

Originally Posted by swaaye

Oblivion has a really tedious and ridiculous design that requires a lot of gaming the leveling system to get the most out of it. Honestly, I don't really pay much attention to this stuff because it is the least interesting part of RPG gaming for me. But if you want to get the most out of your character, you have to minimize character level increases and maximize skill bonuses. You have to plan out which skills are major and which are minor, and the way it works only makes sense to somebody at Bethesda. You aren't just fighting stat points, but also the world level scaling. It feels like a class in accounting to me. No thanks.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Leveling

I suppose the goal was to make it so you can't possibly screw up horribly and make the game unbeatable. The result however is a real nightmare to obsessive compulsive RPG stat-oriented folks who can't sleep at night if their character isn't "optimized".

It was pretty easy for me. Find a trainer and update to get bonuses. Then play till you level. Easy peasy

[xatnys]

There were definitely game breaking mechanics in Oblivion that you could use if the leveling system is too much of a pain (or of course the many rebalancing mods) -- to the point where the game is beatable under most any circumstance.

120% (?) invisibility comes to mind.

[swaaye]

Originally Posted by xatnys

There were definitely game breaking mechanics in Oblivion that you could use if the leveling system is too much of a pain (or of course the many rebalancing mods) -- to the point where the game is beatable under most any circumstance.

120% (?) invisibility comes to mind.

Morrowind is the same way. Meganuke townkiller spells and flying around with levitation indefinitely, come to mind. I don't mind this kind of thing at all though.

[Davros]

Originally Posted by Malo

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here? Are you saying you would want quick travel locations even before you find the location for the first time?

Im commenting on this


the no quest compass bit, I want something better than morrowinds "what you seek is that way somewhere"

[Snyder]

@Frank: Speculating from your wishlist: Risen 2 will be more your cup of tea (if PB get their act together)

[Sxotty]

Originally Posted by swaaye

Morrowind is the same way. Meganuke townkiller spells and flying around with levitation indefinitely, come to mind. I don't mind this kind of thing at all though.

boots of blinding speed
Corpus disease

By the time I was finished with Corpus disease I had like 1000 strength and so forth.

[xatnys]

Originally Posted by swaaye

I don't mind this kind of thing at all though.

Same - actually I'd be a bit annoyed if they went out of their way to prevent it. The game should reward you if you are creative enough. In the same vein of other games (particularly JRPGs like the Disgaea series) where often the system is designed to be balanced, but if you look hard enough they leave in loopholes that can give you ridiculous advantages.

As for Oblivion, AoE frenzy in a town was the best.