[Kaotik]

Originally Posted by babybumb

You can put money on it: There will be no advantage shown over current-gen in Wuus lifetime.

Wii U will get C-level efforts/ports like the Wii did. Most big budget devs/publishers dont see "business case" on Wii U like Crytek put it.

And that prevents Nintendo studios and Ubi from making far better looking exclusives?

[french toast]

What annoys me is seriously how much cheaper is it actually to use out of date hardware? I mean to use a low end gcn derived gpu can't really be that hard can it? It wouldn't push the costs up by a great deal would it?

At what point does crippling the hardware with out of date cheap components to gain a small profit becomes a disadvantage in the long run? Especially As you only get 1 year in the lime light scraping with entrenched competitors that are nearly as powerful as your system, not forgetting billions more money is actually being made through software and online subscriptions and content...is this the right road for nintendo?

I'm perfectly sure a low end modern gpu could have been implemented with 2gb ram and a quad core cpu...and still be sold for a profit with much better long term prospects both on games and likely money.

Nintendo is going the wrong way about imo.

[wsippel]

Originally Posted by babybumb

You can put money on it: There will be no advantage shown over current-gen in Wuus lifetime.

Wii U will get C-level efforts/ports like the Wii did. Most big budget devs/publishers dont see "business case" on Wii U like Crytek put it.

Crytek doesn't plan to develop any games on PS4 and 720 either. No "business cases" to justify making games for those platforms, as they're going all F2P - on PC. Context is a glorious thing.

[pc999]

CryEngine 3 "Runs Beautifully" on Wii U

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/201...fully_on_wii_u

[XpiderMX]

Originally Posted by pc999

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/201...fully_on_wii_u

From my perspective the Wii U is minimum as powerful as Xbox 360.

[french toast]

Pleased to see they say it can run that engine so well, the fact that nobody has the confidence to say it is definitely more powerfull by any kind of margin is telling....

[Butta]

Maybe it's all relative to what power refers to... i.e. WiiU is minimum as powerful as 360 in terms of the CPU but way more powerful in terms of GPU

[babybumb]

Originally Posted by Kaotik

And that prevents Nintendo studios and Ubi from making far better looking exclusives?

Money and manpower? You dont see a big difference in Zombie U vs Watchdogs? Zombie U is in the junior leagues.. Ubisoft wont drop $50-100M and 200 people on a Wii U exclusive

Nintendo hasnt been in the business of making "cinematic" highend games for years. That tech built from ground up costs a lot of dough these days. Retro is in shambles and Japan way behind west in tech. Nintendo will stay where they feel most profitable avoiding risks

[XpiderMX]

Originally Posted by Butta

Maybe it's all relative to what power refers to... i.e. WiiU is minimum as powerful as 360 in terms of the CPU but way more powerful in terms of GPU

Yerli estimated that the Wii U hardware is "minimum on par with the current generation." "From my perspective I do not understand the public's concerns that the Wii U is weaker than PS3 and 360," he said. "That I cannot see. From my perspective the Wii U is minimum as powerful as Xbox 360."

He refers to all system.

[french toast]

Originally Posted by Butta

Maybe it's all relative to what power refers to... i.e. WiiU is minimum as powerful as 360 in terms of the CPU but way more powerful in terms of GPU

That would make it more powerfull though wouldn't it?, if that were the case and they had a meaningful advantage right out of the gate they would be shouting from the rooftops to attract more sales...even the previously spec shy apple boasts about its processors so I don't believe nintendo has been quiet because it's a nice cuddly charitable company out there to make friends and not offend anyone.

[Entropy]

Originally Posted by french toast

That would make it more powerfull though wouldn't it?, if that were the case and they had a meaningful advantage right out of the gate they would be shouting from the rooftops to attract more sales...even the previously spec shy apple boasts about its processors so I don't believe nintendo has been quiet because it's a nice cuddly charitable company out there to make friends and not offend anyone.

Bragging about the specs as if they were important would be foolish - why pull the attention to aspects of their new console which are the strength of their competitors now and in the near future? They should emphasize the importance of their own strengths (particularly what's unique), and that is what they seem to be doing. Whether they do a particularly good job of it is another question, but Nintendo is doing exactly what they should from a marketing point of view regardless of whether the system is weaker, equivalent, or stronger than the current competitor offerings.

OTOH, just because they don't use tech specs in their marketing, doesn't mean they need to be secret. Personally, I find keeping a customer in the dark about what they have bought a bit bizarre. Have the tech specs where they belong, at the very end of the manual in fine print.

[Shifty Geezer]

Originally Posted by XpiderMX

He refers to all system.

Not quite such a broad generalisation. Using BRD means more storage. And there's more RAM. 'As powerful' should mean about the same flops or processing power or ability to priduce pretty graphics on the screen, and so the same performance being achieved now. Better GPU architecture should mean better results in the future over what PS360 can do, making Wuu more powerful in terms of what can be achieved. But only marginally it seems to me.

[Kaotik]

Originally Posted by babybumb

Money and manpower? You dont see a big difference in Zombie U vs Watchdogs? Zombie U is in the junior leagues..

You don't see a big difference developing for familiar platforms you've developed for minimum 5-6 years, and fresh system with new architecture, which at least partly is completely new for the game dev circles (OoOE IBM CPU)?

Ubisoft wont drop $50-100M and 200 people on a Wii U exclusive

Depends on Wii U's commercial success

Nintendo hasnt been in the business of making "cinematic" highend games for years. That tech built from ground up costs a lot of dough these days. Retro is in shambles and Japan way behind west in tech. Nintendo will stay where they feel most profitable avoiding risks

Maybe they will, maybe they won't, that remains to be seen. There's plenty of studios out there that popped with AAA+ graphics and games out of nowhere, nothing says Nintendo can't suddenly start doing such too, or buy a studio to do it.

[function]

I wouldn't put too much faith in PR soundbytes.

http://www.incrysis.com/index.php?op...sk=view&id=532

Originally Posted by Cevat Yerli, talking about Crysis, circa 2007

Multi-core will be beneficial in the experience, particularly in faster but also smoother framerates. 64-bit and higher memory will yield quicker loading times. We recommend quad core over higher clock.

A higher clocked dual core spanks a slower clocked quad core in Crysis. Massively. Always has.

Either the dude fundamentally had no idea about the technology going into the game he was producing (and had never run or head of anyone running a benchmark) or he was ... creatively .... generating PR soundbytes that created the appearance of being at the cutting edge of technology.

Oh yeah, then there was all the stuff about consoles being fundamentally being incapable of running Crysis. Until they did. Easily. In a low budget port. Easily.

I like Cevat Yerli's games but I'd punch myself in the cock before I trusted anything he had to say about the requirements of his game engines or the technical capabilities of consoles.

[N_B]

Originally Posted by wsippel

Crytek doesn't plan to develop any games on PS4 and 720 either. No "business cases" to justify making games for those platforms, as they're going all F2P - on PC. Context is a glorious thing.

There will be plenty of F2P games on consoles next gen, and they will still be developing and maintaining their engine for the new platforms.

[XpiderMX]

Originally Posted by wsippel

Crytek doesn't plan to develop any games on PS4 and 720 either. No "business cases" to justify making games for those platforms, as they're going all F2P - on PC. Context is a glorious thing.

We don't know if Ryse is a Xbox 360 game or a Xbox 720 game.

[Kb-Smoker]

DO we have early dev kit specs? I was talking about the tdp issues with teh r700 series cards on gaf and someone pointed out that what I was saying was already passed in "early dev kit surpassed while underclocked."

I was saying it would be hard get over 480Gflop in the wiiu using the r700 gpu in that small of box. That is great news. Why hasnt anyone brought this up?

So we know the wiiu is more than 500 gflops at least.

[wsippel]

Originally Posted by N_B

There will be plenty of F2P games on consoles next gen, and they will still be developing and maintaining their engine for the new platforms.

You would think that, but:

Q: Free-to-play is a massive growth area, but some people feel the sector is a bubble that could burst. Clearly you don't feel that way or you wouldn't be going into it...

CY: No, we are betting our whole company on it. Literally.

About F2P on Sony and MS consoles:

We have been talking to Microsoft and Sony a lot about this. "Go free-to-play! Go free-to-play!" [There was] no movement, so we said, "Ok, we'll do it ourselves, then. I need a home for Warface, and if there's no home, we'll create one". And we've done that.

And:

Q: So what does that mean for the future of Crysis, then?

CY: Crysis 3 is a packaged goods game for PC and consoles.

Q: And beyond that?

CY: I don't know, maybe I've answered that question. [smiles]

http://www.videogamer.com/news/cevat...ay_gamble.html

[XpiderMX]

Wii U GPU?

HD 4770

Manufacturing Process: 40 nm
# of Transistors: 826 million
Core Clock Speed: 750MHz
# of Stream Processors: 640
Compute Performance: 960 GFLOPS
Texture Units: 32
Texture Fillrate: 24 GTexels/sec
ROPs: 16
Pixel Fillrate: 12 GPixels/sec
Z Fillrate: 48 GSamples/sec
Memory Clock Interface/Type: 128-bit GDDR5
Memory Clock Speed: 800MHz (3.2Gbps data rate)
Memory Bandwidth: 51.2GB/sec
Max Board Power: 80W

[Love_In_Rio]

Originally Posted by XpiderMX

Wii U GPU?

HD 4770

Manufacturing Process: 40 nm
# of Transistors: 826 million
Core Clock Speed: 750MHz
# of Stream Processors: 640
Compute Performance: 960 GFLOPS
Texture Units: 32
Texture Fillrate: 24 GTexels/sec
ROPs: 16
Pixel Fillrate: 12 GPixels/sec
Z Fillrate: 48 GSamples/sec
Memory Clock Interface/Type: 128-bit GDDR5
Memory Clock Speed: 800MHz (3.2Gbps data rate)
Memory Bandwidth: 51.2GB/sec
Max Board Power: 80W

No. Too powerful.

[french toast]

Originally Posted by Love_In_Rio

No. Too powerful.

Correct wayyy too powerfull....if those early game showings were running that hd 4770 at that speed then they would look twice as good imo.

That gpu at that speed is about 3 times the performance of xenos...no chance.

[Kaotik]

You still can't judge games graphics before the games get actually released

[french toast]

Of course you can, early demoes of new hardware almost always look in a different planet straight away.

The point is not that they might be able to make games 20% better graphics than ps360 after a couple of years...that's pointless and current generation, next generation hardware gets its tag from being on a different playing field from what has been seen before....sorry but this doesn't look that way.

Personally from what I have seen it looks to be on a hd 4570 class gpu, probably with some specialised fixed function hardware and different frequency and memory combinations to make it perform better.

Hd 4570 only has 80 stream processors but they are a different generation to xenos and much more effective. Plus the higher clock speeds and other features I honestly think that's what we are looking at...

[Grall]

Originally Posted by french toast

Of course you can, early demoes of new hardware almost always look in a different planet straight away.

Only in consoles aiming at a new tier of performance, which Nintendo isn't doing. There wasn't any great discernible leap in Wii over Gamecube, because this step was quite literally only +50% more CPU/GPU grunt, and one and a third times more memory, and the extra RAM had very little impact due to the heavy focus on casual, while with Gamecube Ninty was still trying to capture real console gamers.

Arguably, the original Metroid Prime for the lowly gamecube actually looked better than MP:Corruption for Wii...

Yet, the hardware in Wii IS more powerful, this is undisputable. So going purely from launch games as a measure is logically a non-starter.

[french toast]

I never said it wasn't more powerfull and what you have said about them not aiming for a different tier backs up what I have said about current gen.

If it is a modified hd 4570 (which I now expec) it may turn out to be more powerfull in a number of areas over time...but we will be talking about 20-50% tops....nice but hardly next generation is it?

For a console that's arriving 7 years down the road that kind of performance increase is not acceptable...unless it's priced accordingly..(£199)

If wuu launches with a noticeable 50% performance increase to the main screen and launches at that price then I might well consider it.