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Old 14-Oct-2012, 23:37   #2976
AlNets
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The press release only mentions the CPU.

Quote:
The all-new, Power-based microprocessor will pack some of IBM's most advanced technology into an energy-saving silicon package that will power Nintendo's brand new entertainment experience for consumers worldwide. IBM's unique embedded DRAM, for example, is capable of feeding the multi-core processor large chunks of data to make for a smooth entertainment experience.
The only thing we really know about the eDRAM is that MoSys is not involved with WiiU (from one of their financial press releases IIRC).

edit:


Quote:
In addition, Nintendo is expected to introduce a new gaming system in 2012, which does not incorporate our technology, and will likely cause a reduction in royalties we receive related to the existing gaming devices.
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/da...07956z10-k.htm
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Old 14-Oct-2012, 23:51   #2977
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Wonder if they're using 1T-SRAM again? They've had it in the GC and Wii.

Also to note that certain foundries do refer to 1T-SRAM as eDRAM.
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Old 15-Oct-2012, 09:48   #2978
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alstrong almighty

You know, I just noticed these are two accounts.
What a tag team.

From NEOGAF
Nightbringer

Quote:
The text is in Spanish since I have done it for my personal blog, I have took the image of the entire board that I have seen here and from it I have extrapolated for the finl composition. I have observed doing it that the system uses 2 different types of memory for it's main RAM. 2 GDDR5 modules (256MB each) and 2 DDR3 modules with 768MB each.
I have to agree, it does look like there is two different sets of ram modules. If that true, then what was stated here paints us a picture:

Quote:
. Likewise, a computer transfers and manages data by layering storage, with the CPU at the top, high-speed low-capacity cache memory serving as short-term memory underneath, followed by low-speed large capacity main storage for managing hardware, and auxiliary storage for managing the OS on the bottom.
-NIntendo

of four layers.

CPU/GPU with their on chip memory L1
Mem1 on the MCM, possibly shared between the two LSIs? (24 up to 256MB?) can be seen as L2
Mem2 the large pool of ram on motherboard dedicated for gaming. (<1GB)
Mem3 the other pool of ram on the motherboard for OS (1GB)


By the way, who is to say that for the CPU Nintendo is not using two cores?
Everyone was expecting iPhone 5 to have a quad core CPU, but they ended up using two.
And its the fastest, or close to the fastest smartphone out there, atm.
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Old 15-Oct-2012, 09:57   #2979
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDX View Post
I have to agree, it does look like there is two different sets of ram modules. If that true, then what was stated here paints us a picture:
If so, that's quite a change to expectations. It means split RAM, 512MB GDDR5 + 1536 MBs slow system RAM. I guess GDDR5 is being used for low power performance rather than high performance, but now we have to worry about RAM architecture. Nintendo have two buses, and devs have split pools. We need a way to determine bus size and transfer; it makes little sense to have fast GDDR5 in there.

Quote:
By the way, who is to say that for the CPU Nintendo is not using two cores?
The devs EG spoke with.
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Old 15-Oct-2012, 10:33   #2980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer View Post
If so, that's quite a change to expectations. It means split RAM, 512MB GDDR5 + 1536 MBs slow system RAM. I guess GDDR5 is being used for low power performance rather than high performance, but now we have to worry about RAM architecture. Nintendo have two buses, and devs have split pools. We need a way to determine bus size and transfer; it makes little sense to have fast GDDR5 in there.
.
Im not necessarily agreeing with the poster that GDDR5 is being used.
Im thinking some special RAM on the module like TTRAM from Renesas,
and DDR3 on the board.

A lot of developers are stating that they are happy working with a lot of RAM.
But Im not sure if they are talking about the main ram pool, or the on chip ram for the GPGPU. So far, I dont see any games that would be constrained with 512MB.
So Im thinking they are talking about the amount on the chip, and the VRAM on the MCM.
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Old 15-Oct-2012, 11:13   #2981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer View Post
If so, that's quite a change to expectations. It means split RAM, 512MB GDDR5 + 1536 MBs slow system RAM.
Not sure how we'd get 1.5GB of RAM using an even number of memory devices...unless there's a third RAM chip hidden away on the reverse side of the board, that is. That would require a wider, more costly and more complicated bus and memory controller, more pins on the GPU and more traces in the board. Unlikely.

If there's actually a split between different RAM types I would much rather think it's 1GB of each type of memory. There could be 4 GDDR devices, with two more on the reverse side running in clamshell mode that we haven't seen.

That might also be the reason Nintendo reserved a full gig of RAM for the OS, to stop devs from whining and worrying about having to manage separate memory pools. All DDR3 would be OS-only, GDDR would be for games. <--- Hypothetic speculation <TM>
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Old 15-Oct-2012, 11:30   #2982
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I think he made a mistake with regards to the different RAM types. I also thought at first that the upper Mem chips look like their shape is different, but once you magnify the picture by 500% the chips look and measure as absolutely identical.
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Old 15-Oct-2012, 11:33   #2983
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"768MB modules?" Are they using defective 1GB chips to save money? Speaking of which (saving money, not excessive sarcasm), two memory pools also sounds silly given the EDRAM, at least to this clueless guy.

Unless we're talking a separate GDDR5 pool for the GPU? No unified RAM in a system aimed at efficiency? Still sounds silly.
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Old 15-Oct-2012, 12:21   #2984
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post
"768MB modules?" Are they using defective 1GB chips to save money?
I should have stopped to think about that a moment longer. I guess the reasoning comes from the 2GBs total RAM. If there's 512 MBs GDDR5, then there'd have to be 1.5 gigs DDR3, across 2 different chips is 768 MBs each. Which of course isn't a standard RAM capacity. Looking at the mobo photo myself, they look the same size. They measure different sizes but that's going to be affected by perspective. When I use my CSI Enhancement software, I can read they are all Samsung K4G10325FE-HC05 GDDR5 chips.
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Old 15-Oct-2012, 12:22   #2985
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer View Post
We need a way to determine bus size and transfer; it makes little sense to have fast GDDR5 in there..
Not if they have a small bus, high clocked GDDR5 on a 64Bit bus would be just as effective as 128bit bus on GDDR3, maybe even more effective depending on the GDDR5's clock rate.

Running 64bit would gretly reduce the amount of transistors used on the die.
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Old 15-Oct-2012, 13:09   #2986
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaz51 View Post
IBM said eDRAM in the CPU
http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pr...ease/34683.wss

L2 cache would be eDRAM like PPC A2
Very interesting... It seemed to be a very GPU-centric console to be honest. I wonder if the GPU is finally a modified E6760 or we can dismiss that possibility.

Edit: Moved some pics to a more appropriate thread.
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Old 15-Oct-2012, 13:16   #2987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by almighty View Post
Not if they have a small bus, high clocked GDDR5 on a 64Bit bus would be just as effective as 128bit bus on GDDR3, maybe even more effective depending on the GDDR5's clock rate.

Running 64bit would gretly reduce the amount of transistors used on the die.
That's what I mean by determining the bus size. GDDR5 is typically considered fast RAM, but it's also more efficient so, as you say, a small bus might explain its adoption. Although if we consider it's 2 GBs of the same format chips because the initial idea of their being different chips in use seems wrong, then it's more likely to be DDR3 than 2 GBs GDDR5.
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Old 15-Oct-2012, 13:18   #2988
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer View Post
When I use my CSI Enhancement software, I can read they are all Samsung K4G10325FE-HC05 GDDR5 chips.
Really?
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Old 15-Oct-2012, 13:26   #2989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer View Post
Samsung K4G10325FE-HC05 GDDR5 chips.
That's rated for 4Ghz QDR so on a 64bit bus speed you're looking at 32Gb/s, that seems a bit low considering that the chances running at full speed are slim as it doesn't fit in the whole power efficient concept of the machine.
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Old 15-Oct-2012, 13:33   #2990
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangers View Post
Really?
Yes, really. I'm using the same software used on CSI, which is absolutely 100% authentic, what with TV being so well researched and all. I can zoom in on a 14 x 8 pixel grey blob and make out individual letters on the chips...

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Old 15-Oct-2012, 13:49   #2991
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I didn't know Cell was that powerful. Must be a twin 128SPE setup on 22nm.
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Old 15-Oct-2012, 14:59   #2992
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When Nintendo says:

with the CPU at the top, high-speed low-capacity cache memory serving as short-term memory underneath, followed by low-speed large capacity main storage for managing hardware, and auxiliary storage for managing the OS on the bottom.

Do you think they are talking about two different types of memory when they
make a distinction between "low-speed large capacity main storage for managing hardware"
and "auxiliary storage for managing the OS"

Because if I look up auxiliary memory:
Quote:
auxiliary memory (also called physical memory or external memory) that stores information over the long term, including after the computer is turned off. Auxiliary memory corresponds to magnetic storage devices such as the hard drive, optical storage devices such as CD-ROMs and DVD-ROMs, as well as read-only memories.
Could Nintendo be using FLASH memory for the OS?

If so, then Nintendo really means there is only 1GB for games.
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Old 15-Oct-2012, 15:04   #2993
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlStrong View Post
I didn't know Cell was that powerful. Must be a twin 128SPE setup on 22nm.
Well of course Al... it's the only chip in the world that can render 4D!

But with low rez transparencies.
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Old 15-Oct-2012, 15:21   #2994
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDX View Post
When Nintendo says:

with the CPU at the top, high-speed low-capacity cache memory serving as short-term memory underneath, followed by low-speed large capacity main storage for managing hardware, and auxiliary storage for managing the OS on the bottom.

Do you think they are talking about two different types of memory when they
make a distinction between "low-speed large capacity main storage for managing hardware"
and "auxiliary storage for managing the OS".
High speed low capacity cache memory is more then likely the CPU L1 cache.

Low speed large capacity main storage is more then likely the L2 and L3 cache

Auxiliary storage is the main system RAM.
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Old 15-Oct-2012, 15:46   #2995
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"high-speed low-capacity cache memory" is L1 + L2 for me, slower memory is RAM and auxiliary storage is flash.
there's nothing to read in those phrases, it was just a basic explanation of what is a memory hierarchy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MDX View Post
Could Nintendo be using FLASH memory for the OS?

If so, then Nintendo really means there is only 1GB for games.
You must have missed the bluray drive (not called bluray because of no license to play movies)
Or I have trouble understanding you. Of course the OS will execute in RAM.
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Old 15-Oct-2012, 19:23   #2996
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blazkowicz View Post
"high-speed low-capacity cache memory" is L1 + L2 for me, slower memory is RAM and auxiliary storage is flash.
there's nothing to read in those phrases, it was just a basic explanation of what is a memory hierarchy.



You must have missed the bluray drive (not called bluray because of no license to play movies)
Or I have trouble understanding you. Of course the OS will execute in RAM.
Why? They can store and execute programs from Flash. Isn't 1GB of Flash cheaper to use than 1GB of Ram?
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Old 15-Oct-2012, 19:33   #2997
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The flash memory they put in consoles is similar in access speed to the flash found in SD cards or to hard drive access times. It is not as fast as SSDs, and even if it was it's no where near as fast as RAM access speeds. Storing all operations on flash instead of RAM would make the OS run like Molasses, which is not a great way to endear your product to people.

BJ - thanks for being the voice of reason here, I think there's far too much reading between the lines going on. I think you're exactly right.
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Old 15-Oct-2012, 19:52   #2998
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If Nintendo wants it to be "always on" with background downloading during the night, push notifications and what not, a split pool with low power RAM for the OS might be useful, so everything can be powered down and the CPU heavily throttled. (the Wii was already criticized for consuming way too much power on standby, maybe they paid attention to it)
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Old 15-Oct-2012, 20:57   #2999
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Well, I am the one who made that Diagram, I used it for this post:

http://josepjroca.wordpress.com/2012...as-de-wii-u-i/

The problem is that the diagram is wrong, initially I assumed that the system used 2 types of memory but after a few advices in NeoGAF and a checking i did another post:

https://josepjroca.wordpress.com/201...s-de-wii-u-ii/

That included a completely new diagram and a more insight speculation and remember this, this is only speculation and the only information that I got in all this time is not valid anymore since Nintendo refused the 1T-SRAM macros for GPU7. I should add that the second post is related to the GPU and I made one related to the CPU.

https://josepjroca.wordpress.com/201...-de-wii-u-iii/

Remember, this is all speculation from a single individual, donīt ask me for specs, I donīt know anything and the speculation is only for relaxing my mind.
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Old 15-Oct-2012, 21:29   #3000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urian View Post
Well, I am the one who made that Diagram, I used it for this post:

http://josepjroca.wordpress.com/2012...as-de-wii-u-i/

The problem is that the diagram is wrong, initially I assumed that the system used 2 types of memory but after a few advices in NeoGAF and a checking i did another post:
.
What was stated that made you change your mind that the memory modules were of a different size?
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