[wco81]

It seems they're betting on being able to sell the iP4S not on specs -- especially a bigger screen -- but on Siri.

That is, the reason why you'd upgrade from earlier iPhones is that it has this NLP interface where you talk to the phone to get it to give you verbal feedback or execute some actions -- reply to email, send SMS, make events in your calendar.

Now, is this Siri thing for people who will be driving or go way beyond that? In the video they've posted, the examples they show are people jogging or a blind woman having an email read to her and dictating a reply.

It would feel silly talking to a computer voice in public so it really depends on how people view this Siri feature. It represents a lot of engineering (with some infrastructure on the back end) and presumably requires the power of the A5?

There seems to be some discussion that Siri will accumulate a lot of data on your usage patterns in order to be able to determine the context when you speak commands to it.

[ltcommander.data]

Originally Posted by wco81

It seems they're betting on being able to sell the iP4S not on specs -- especially a bigger screen -- but on Siri.

I wonder if the iPhone 4S would have been better received if Steve Jobs had presented it? A spec bump doesn't really sell itself to the general public as well as a new case design, so it would need additional explanation to draw a desire. And Siri could potentially be useful to people, but really needs to be presented with the "that's cool" factor to draw people in to try it and see for themselves. Those seem to be a task best suited to Jobs than Cook and Schiller.

Originally Posted by wco81

It would feel silly talking to a computer voice in public so it really depends on how people view this Siri feature.

I'd be self-conscious too. I wonder how well it performs if you whisper into the headset or if there is a lot of background noise in a crowd?

[wco81]

Well Jobs isn't going to be around forever so they have to be able to launch new products without him sooner or later.

Key is how accurate and fast it is. If for instance it's faster to tell it to send an email to someone and dictate a couple of sentences rather than do several swipes and tap those sentences in the keyboard, then it might become really popular. But if you have to go and always make corrections to what it has transcribed, then people won't bother with it much.

[Mariner]

As somebody who has used phones with screens of 3.5", 3.7", 3.8" and, now, 4.0", I think that a larger screen is a big benefit to a phone, especially for things like viewing web pages and other text.

I think having just a 3.5" screen on their halo phone (regardless of the high resolution), is a real negative for Apple. I'm surprised they didn't go to at least a 3.7" screen as they could have included one of this size without changing the dimensions of the phone appreciably.

Having the most powerful GPU is all well and good but the (relatively) tiny screen detracts from this plus point.

That said, I personally think that the new 4.3" screens of most of the top Android phones are a little too big and make the phone a little unwieldy! The 4.0" screen on my Atrix is perfect for me and this has a dual-core A9 which can be easily overclocked to 1.3GHz as necessary, giving much better performance than the iPhone 4S in everything but 3D. It also cost a hell of a lot less than the iPhone 4S will!

[silent_guy]

Originally Posted by ltcommander.data

I wonder if the iPhone 4S would have been better received if Steve Jobs had presented it? A spec bump doesn't really sell itself to the general public as well as a new case design, so it would need additional explanation to draw a desire. And Siri could potentially be useful to people, but really needs to be presented with the "that's cool" factor to draw people in to try it and see for themselves. Those seem to be a task best suited to Jobs than Cook and Schiller

I think It'd been better received if they'd introduced iOS 5 and hardware together, like they've always done in the past, e.g. with the 3GS. Just imagine todays presentation, (identical!) without the one at WWDC.

Originally Posted by rpg.314

The real big change is that now people are writing whether or not 4S lives up to the bar set by other phones.

That's a big change.

I haven't seen this, but take your word for it.
I don't think it will last long. The 4GS will sell hundred million units, give or take, without breaking a sweat and will be the reference against which all other phones are compared, even if perceived better wrt tech specs. Reviews will continue to be like this.

IMHO one of the strongest points of iPhones is exactly the fact that there's so little choices. Makes the chance of buyers remorse so much lower, even 15 months later.

[Arun]

I think their biggest mistake was delaying it so much. I suspect an identical device but without the 8MP camera would have been much better received if it had been launched along with iOS 5 in June. All the non-camera parts were ready so it doesn't make sense to me unless they couldn't secure enough 45nm capacity at Samsung for the larger 120mm² A5.

It's a very solid device otherwise - there's not much to highlight besides what they did, except for Bluetooth 4.0 (which seems to confirm the presence of the BCM4330). I've always felt Bluetooth Low Energy would be an awesome feature for Apple to have if they pushed the device ecosystem themselves which others haven't really done - too bad that doesn't appear to be the case. I also notice 5GHz WiFi is lacking sadly, and there's no word on the GPS - I hope they're not sticking to be average one integrated in the MDM6600 (although I suppose it might improve once it gets software support for GLONASS since it's one of the first chips to support it).

Personally I'm holding out for the Nexus Prime announcement. If the 4.6" 1184x720 rumours are true, I'm jumping ship. The thing I like most about the iPhone is the Retina Display and I couldn't get myself to go down to 800x480 with a Galaxy S II. But 4.6" and an even higher resolution? Sign me up!
---
Also the iPhone 4 price cut is very disappointing but my expectation is they'll get rid of the 3GS once inventories run out and then reduce the 4 price in early 2012. Remember the 3GS price drop only happened in January 2011 (maybe even as low as $0 with a contract). I'll be curious to see iPhone 4 8GB teardowns - I wouldn't be surprised if there were slightly different chips in there to reduce costs.
---
As for LTE, I kinda think a LTE iPad 3 version might be possible before a LTE iPhone because the former can get away with being less energy efficient due to the much larger battery of a tablet. But for the iPhone, they really need to wait for the MDM9615 and ideally they'd pair it with a Nujira Coolteq.L. The latter would be awesome (way lower power consumption and support for any LTE band with just two wideband PAs) but maybe it's hoping for too much even if the timeframe matches If not, I hope Apple at least supports basic DC/DC envelope tracking, although the Qualcomm roadmap kinda implies that might not be ready in time for early MDM9615 devices sadly.

[tangey]

To me it seems that this cycle more than last, they are relying on the software and ecosystem to be the drive for sales. They must see the icloud as a strong enough selling point, remembering no one else comes close on this. Last cycle they announced a phone with leading edge internal hardware. Whereas this time they are "just" on a dual core 1Ghz, but with a good lead in graphics, and probably still towards the very top in terms of battery life. The fact that the iphone4 will only have an 8GB option probably eliminates many people who might otherwise consider going for an IP4 instead of an IP4S, so a smart move.

I am disapointed that a 3.7" within the same body didn't appear, this is the only thing missing for me.

I hav'nt seen any pics or much details, small point...did they actually move the mute switch to the other side, this was widely taken as a done deal, with many cases designed based on it.

In terms of an A6 chip, if they do one for an ipad3, say march/april, it'll still be series 5XT graphics. Its possible that if they don't do an A6 until end of next year, we might see rogue, but more likely not until 2013.

[Mariner]

Originally Posted by Arun

Personally I'm holding out for the Nexus Prime announcement. If the 4.6" 1184x720 rumours are true, I'm jumping ship. The thing I like most about the iPhone is the Retina Display and I couldn't get myself to go down to 800x480 with a Galaxy S II. But 4.6" and an even higher resolution? Sign me up!

I think the actual screen of the Nexus Prime will be 1280x720 resolution. The 1184 figure supposedly comes for the amount of available screen area after the task bar and the soft menu buttons at the bottom have been disregarded.

It will also be interesting to see what new stuff (if any), Ice Cream Sandwich brings to the table. I'm hoping for a CyanogenMod 8 on my phone by November!

As somebody who likes to put his phone in his trouser pocket, I can't help but think that these new 4.5"+ screens will be rather too big for me, at least until they invent a flawlessly foldable screen. At the current rate of advancement, this will hopefully be just a few years from now...

[Lazy8s]

Current iOS 4 iPhone/iPod voice control is processed locally on the device, yet Siri processing looks to be mostly remote and thus requiring a data connection (possibly not available if on 2G according to the presentation?)

As demonstrated, it'll be very accurate and very functional, and upgrading it to new commands and integration with more apps can be done mostly server-side, too (with important app hooks included in the OTA updates maybe). The phone's part is mostly just getting a good capture (even noise filtering can be tweaked on the server side). After watching the keynote, I see voice dictation into any text field is indeed possible with the microphone key, so the iPhone 4S has definitely matched and then surpassed (with the personal assistant stuff) any other phone in terms of comprehensive voice control.

The iPhone 4's camera/camcorder has been a great tool to me, so I expect the quality of the new still/video capture to be among the best once again and allow for some amazing slideshows and video displays on an HDTV.

Getting to work with a full range of Android devices every day, I've come to appreciate larger displays. While I am disappointed that Apple didn't increase the size at least somewhat, the 3.5" screen is as adequate as ever. It really is one of only a few legitimate selling points open to other phones after considering all of the 4S's performance and functionality advantages from the A5, iCloud, and Siri.

Now, I'm still anxious to know the RAM situation. I didn't see anything demonstrated that would really push the need for more than the 512 MB, but I hope they went to 1 GB or at least 768 MB anyway.

[Lazy8s]

1 GB confirmed?

"I think parity with the CPU/GPU of the iPad 2 is great for those of us working with these top-end devices," says Simon Barratt of Bradford-based Four Door Lemon, which has just released its latest iOS title, Tic Toc Body Pop. "I wasn't expecting the RAM to be increased to 1GB, versus the iPad 2 with 512MB, so that was a welcome surprise and should allow for more working memory to be available to developers.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...?newsfeed=true

[wco81]

Yeah I think the delay was due more to iCloud (and maybe Siri) than the availability of certain hardware components.

On the camera, they claim 73% more light sensitivity but is that enough to overcome the higher pixel count? Guess we'll see, they promised better white balance and image stabilization so if it produces better images, that'll be the proof. Also now able to zoom with pinch gesture.

Of course they listed 1080p capture. So wonder if the HDMI dongle for the iPad2 would work with iPhone4S so you can directly play back those captured videos on the big screen.

[Xmas]

Originally Posted by wco81

On the camera, they claim 73% more light sensitivity but is that enough to overcome the higher pixel count?

73% more light captured with 60% more pixels should mean that each pixel captures 8% more light than before despite being smaller.

[ltcommander.data]

Originally Posted by Arun

I think their biggest mistake was delaying it so much. I suspect an identical device but without the 8MP camera would have been much better received if it had been launched along with iOS 5 in June. All the non-camera parts were ready so it doesn't make sense to me unless they couldn't secure enough 45nm capacity at Samsung for the larger 120mm² A5.

If the iPhone didn't get a redesign and neither did any of the iPods, I really wonder what all their industrial engineers have been doing all this time. That really puts pressure on next year, where everything is due for a major refresh.

Originally Posted by wco81

Of course they listed 1080p capture. So wonder if the HDMI dongle for the iPad2 would work with iPhone4S so you can directly play back those captured videos on the big screen.

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC953ZM/A

Mirroring supported only by iPad 2 and iPhone 4S.
Video out supports up to 1080p for iPad 2 and iPhone 4S and up to 720p for iPad, iPhone 4 and iPod touch (4th generation). Movies play at up to 720p.

That video out is up to 1080p, but movies are only 720p makes things kind of unclear. Presumably the 720p movie limitation refers to iTunes bought movies since they are only 720p rather than 1080p self-shot video.

[ltcommander.data]

http://toucharcade.com/2011/10/05/re...ier-in-update/

So in terms of use cases for the new tech, how does 4 player split-screen wireless output to TV sound?

[rpg.314]

Originally Posted by ltcommander.data

But what big features is the iPhone 4S missing compared to the average top-end phone? Discounting specific niche features like 3D displays, the main things seem to be larger screens and LTE. Larger screen is kind of subjective, but may well be a make or break feature for some people since it defines how they interact with their phone. Apple tries to target the majority with their single model approach, and I think 3.5" is still acceptable to most people, even if no longer gets anyones heart racing. LTE is a good selling feature to have, but given the bandwidth caps, coverage limitations, and battery life concerns, does having only 14.4Mbps HSPA+ vs. LTE really impact usability?

Other than that, the iPhone 4S has a largely comparable CPU to competitors, a definitively faster GPU, potentially a leading camera, competitive thickness and weight, top-tier battery life, and now iOS 5 has adopted/copied a number of features that the OS was lacking compared to the competition. There are definitely a number of individual competitor phones with a number of individual superior features to what the iPhone 4S has, but I think the iPhone 4S does quite well as a single phone with a well rounded feature set. If you have specific needs, you can probably find a specific competitor phone to meet it better, but for most people, you're not going to go wrong with the iPhone 4S, which is probably what Apple is looking for.

So, all in all, 4S is as good as rest? If yes, then that's what I meant by competitors having caught up with the iPhone.

[rpg.314]

Originally Posted by silent_guy

I think It'd been better received if they'd introduced iOS 5 and hardware together, like they've always done in the past, e.g. with the 3GS. Just imagine todays presentation, (identical!) without the one at WWDC.

True that.

I haven't seen this, but take your word for it.
I don't think it will last long. The 4GS will sell hundred million units, give or take, without breaking a sweat and will be the reference against which all other phones are compared, even if perceived better wrt tech specs. Reviews will continue to be like this.

IMHO one of the strongest points of iPhones is exactly the fact that there's so little choices. Makes the chance of buyers remorse so much lower, even 15 months later.

I think you are missing the point by looking at the number of 4S Apple will sell. Sure, 150M is a given, may be even 175M. But still, it's missing the point.

Look at RIM. Their absolute sales are still growing and yet the company is crashing and burning as they are growing slower than the rest. In markets like this, slow growth equals slow death. If for some reason Siri doesn't take off, how are people not going to say that 4S is quite similar to XYZ Android phone? And by people I mean the avg guy or the average web site, mind you.

If Siri works well, then of course, none of this applies.

[Lazy8s]

I can see the many, many iPhone 4S commercials about Siri and how functional it/she is in my mind right now.

Definitely an easy Wow feature.

[Arun]

Originally Posted by Lazy8s

Current iOS 4 iPhone/iPod voice control is processed locally on the device, yet Siri processing looks to be mostly remote and thus requiring a data connection (possibly not available if on 2G according to the presentation?)

Any source for it not being available on 2G? That would be a big problem (e.g. unlikely to have a 3G signal when driving between towns in many countries).

[sebbbi]

After trying some of the bigger screen Android phones, I was eagerly waiting for a 4" iPhone 5, as my two year old 3GS ceased to function a few weeks ago. 4S was a disappointment for me, as I am not personally going to buy a phone with a small 3.5" display anymore, no matter how good it is otherwise.

I think I am going to settle on Galaxy Note. It has a 1280x800 5.3" AMOLED screen, and a 1.4GHz dual core CPU. Double display DPI compared to the 10.1" Android tablets is a great thing to have, and it fits my pocket (and can make/receive phone calls).

[Rys]

Originally Posted by Arun

Any source for it not being available on 2G? That would be a big problem (e.g. unlikely to have a 3G signal when driving between towns in many countries).

The Siri slides in the Apple presentation yesterday said "Wi-Fi and 3G", if I'm not mistaken. I've yet to watch the video, but it's probably said out loud there since it was up on the big screen.

[Arun]

Originally Posted by Rys

The Siri slides in the Apple presentation yesterday said "Wi-Fi and 3G", if I'm not mistaken. I've yet to watch the video, but it's probably said out loud there since it was up on the big screen.

Ugh. What's wrong with them?! Surely the accuracy wouldn't suffer much if you sent it at a lower bitrate over 2G. And they've got an Audience chip in there so there's little reason why they should send the audio streams of both microphones separately. Here's hoping it only means 'may not give a perfect experience on 2G, and may not work at all with weak 2G signals' rather than an artificial limitation to 3G/WiFi.

And sebbi, the Galaxy Note is a cool device, 5.3" is pretty damn big though I must admit

[Mariner]

Originally Posted by sebbbi

I think I am going to settle on Galaxy Note. It has a 1280x800 5.3" AMOLED screen, and a 1.4GHz dual core CPU. Double display DPI compared to the 10.1" Android tablets is a great thing to have, and it fits my pocket (and can make/receive phone calls).

May be worth waiting to see what the Nexus Prime has to offer. It is scheduled to be announced next week (I believe) and reportedly has a curved 4.6" screen with 1280 x 720 resolution.

Pretty big screen but not as large as the Note which looks to be quite unwieldy to me!

[Rys]

4.6 is the wrong side of usable for my girly hands, sadly, no matter how much pixel density they're cramming in (it should be a fantastic screen!). Can't wait to see what it's finally like.

[wishiknew]

Good bye Steve.

[Sinistar]

Only 56 years old.
R.I.P.