[function]

Originally Posted by pjbliverpool

Isn't the PS3 using a 2x Blu-Ray drive? Considering you can get 12x drives for the PC now why not just stick one of those in there. Thats a 6x speed increase straight away! It would fill 3GB if RAM in the same time a PS3 could fill it's 512MB.

I think the PS3 drive is a CLV drive, where as PC drives are normally CAV, so speeds aren't a straight read across.

I can't find the details, but I think the PS3 is a 2.4 x drive (from memory), and that a 12X PC (Bluray) CAV drive would spin much faster than the noise-a-thon 12x (DVD) 360 drive.

I guess the Wu will have a 4 - 6x Bluray equivalent drive and 1GB of memory (give or take edram).

[AlStrong]

Just be prepared for loudness and vibrations... The install feature is really a lifesaver.

[snarfbot]

there was this magazine that had commodore games in it, and you had to manually type in all the code, it was alot cooler than it sounds.

[function]

Originally Posted by snarfbot

there was this magazine that had commodore games in it, and you had to manually type in all the code, it was alot cooler than it sounds.

Read errors could slow loading times down a lot.

[Laa-Yosh]

Wing Commander 3 was the best loading times ever, with 8MB memory and a 2x CD drive it took like 15 minutes to load a mission...

[RudeCurve]

Fast optical drives are loud....

I want a 3.5" 500GB - 1TB HDD in my next console. Since games will be larger you'll need the larger HDD for installs.

[kagemaru]

Originally Posted by function

I think the PS3 drive is a CLV drive, where as PC drives are normally CAV, so speeds aren't a straight read across.

I can't find the details, but I think the PS3 is a 2.4 x drive (from memory), and that a 12X PC (Bluray) CAV drive would spin much faster than the noise-a-thon 12x (DVD) 360 drive.

I guess the Wu will have a 4 - 6x Bluray equivalent drive and 1GB of memory (give or take edram).

I thought all blu-ray drives are CLV by design, no?

Also, can you post a link stating that ps3's is 2.4? Everything I've read, which has been years ago by now, specifically stated 2x.

I'm actually hoping for 12x blu-ray drives next gen with noise dampening. I know the 360 slim is certainly quieter than my Xenon or Jasper models.

Edit: Though this discussion should probably be moved to the optical disc thread in the main gaming section. >_>

[Pete]

Originally Posted by kagemaru

Yeah running the AI on the GPU has crossed my mind, but would there be a practical reason to do this on next gen platforms?

I believe AI code is branchy, so CPUs should trump GPUs. I don't know how much being in-order hurts current PPC-based console CPUs, but I imagine the sheer clock speed advantage a CPU has over a GPU would make it that much better for AI.

Plus I remember reading an article in which a console dev stated AI on the current gen is limited by RAM more than compute, and GPUs have little enough RAM for graphics as it is. We may see better AI on next-gen consoles simply due to the oodles of RAM that some people are worrying about taking forever to load up. If nothing else, there'd be that much less memory waiting to be filled from disc.

/end uninformed speculation

[hoho]

Originally Posted by Pete

Plus I remember reading an article in which a console dev stated AI on the current gen is limited by RAM more than compute

I highly doubt that. AI is not like textures or even models that take tons of memory and you can reuse a whole lot of data that you'll be having anyway like physics collision meshes etc.

My bet is that dev was asked something like "what can you do with more RAM" and he gave the standard answer of "everything like graphics, AI, physics, ..." and for some reason the AI part was picked out.

[Laa-Yosh]

As far as I know the most processing intensive part of AI is still raycasting, to check for various kinds of visibilities, and probably pathfinding too.

[hoho]

Yea but that's purely compute-bound and can reuse the data you are going to have for physics. Nearly no significant extra RAM is needed. To be honest I can't even imagine what kind of AI algorithms could need more than a few MBs in game settings.

[pc999]

Originally Posted by AlStrong

Just be prepared for loudness and vibrations... The install feature is really a lifesaver.

I really hope not.

Originally Posted by Laa-Yosh

As far as I know the most processing intensive part of AI is still raycasting, to check for various kinds of visibilities, and probably pathfinding too.

Originally Posted by hoho

Yea but that's purely compute-bound and can reuse the data you are going to have for physics. Nearly no significant extra RAM is needed. To be honest I can't even imagine what kind of AI algorithms could need more than a few MBs in game settings.

And GPU friendly, if I am not mistaken.


Anyway if anything need improvments is AI

[hoho]

Originally Posted by pc999

Anyway if anything need improvments is AI

What exactly would you improve in an average corridor shooter and are you sure the reason why those improvements aren't made are due to lack of computing power/memory/whaterver?

[TheWretched]

Well... I would remove the "corridor-ism". From a gameplay perspective (not looking at the surrounding stuff like RPG elements etc.), there's been basically no changes since Doom/Wolfenstein. All games rely on "go from a to b and shoot everything that tries to stop you".

And this isn't a hardware limit, either. It's just that publishers and developers don't dare to stray away from the known. But I also think that this is partially the fault of engines like UE and such. I can't "prove" this, though.

[hoho]

Also it has absolutely nothing to do with AI

My little theory is that most games are corridors now because of the mass market not wanting a challenge but an interactive movie instead.

[BoardBonobo]

Originally Posted by RudeCurve

Fast optical drives are loud....

I want a 3.5" 500GB - 1TB HDD in my next console. Since games will be larger you'll need the larger HDD for installs.

I want to be able to transfer my 500GB Blue Scorpion from my PS3 into my PS4 and have all the game saves and everything instantly accessible.

[pjbliverpool]

Originally Posted by TheWretched

Well... I would remove the "corridor-ism". From a gameplay perspective (not looking at the surrounding stuff like RPG elements etc.), there's been basically no changes since Doom/Wolfenstein. All games rely on "go from a to b and shoot everything that tries to stop you".

If you're talking about first and third person shooters then for the most part I'd say that's for gameplay reasons. A strong story and regular change of setting are what keep a game interesting and so that often requires a corridor like approach. Even games like Crysis are corridor shooters, just with very wide corridors.

But then look at Farcry 2 which took a completely open approach. And the gameplay suffered because of it.

There are plenty of great sandbox games out there so it's clearly not a technical limitation but great sandbox shooters are rare for the reasons I mentioned above.

[hoho]

or you could do it similarly to GTA/Prototype/Stalker where the world is big but missions take you pretty much everywhere. Kind of like a maze instead of one straight corridor

[Laa-Yosh]

That kind of open world is very different and far less detailed than your average FPS/TPS. think Uncharted, COD and such.

[homerdog]

Regarding AI, I don't think we even have the proper theories in place to make huge strides even if the next gen is 100x more powerful than we expect it to be. Same goes for animation unfortunately (you can't motion capture everything.)

[hoho]

Originally Posted by Laa-Yosh

That kind of open world is very different and far less detailed than your average FPS/TPS. think Uncharted, COD and such.

Yes, generally they are but they don't have to be when designed right. GTA and Prototype are pretty much just a bunch of block-buildings with some cars and trees. Stalker is somewhat more detailed. Original Far Cry was pretty good. Not quite 100% free-roam but I'd say they got the openness and detail levels down pretty well for the performance levels they had availiable.

Originally Posted by homerdog

Regarding AI, I don't think we even have the proper theories in place to make huge strides even if the next gen is 100x more powerful than we expect it to be.

In addition to that you often don't really want realistic and/or challenging AI. AI is usually there just to entertain you before dying and as bad as it sounds scripting is generalyl way better than half-assed attempt at intelligence

[hoho]

Originally Posted by Laa-Yosh

Would you want COD's gameplay to take place in GTA4's cities?

Obviously drop-in replacement world without changing the main story/gameplay mechanics wouldn't work but adding neccessary details and reworking the story would be possible. Current CoD is limited to relatively small areas. If they'd do some kind of "capture the city from boogiemen" type of game where you'd have different objectives to take over I could definitely see it working great. Similarly they could have halflife-type games in open citys as well, just place the objectives near the important stuff and thus force them to though the same hoops they do in the linear settings. Just instead of having tu crawl around ventilation shafts or ride elevators to next loading point allow them to jog around the city killing random aliens.

Originally Posted by Laa-Yosh

Also, people apparently like these corridor games...

One reason why they like them I already pointed out (they want interactive movies instead of any kind of decent challenge). Another reason is there simply isn't anything better out there. Sure, there are some great older games but people care too much about graphics to go back to them.

[homerdog]

Lol most people I've watched play a CoD campaign didn't look like they were having too much fun. I mostly see shouts of frustration and profanity.

[Laa-Yosh]

Originally Posted by hoho

Current CoD is limited to relatively small areas. If they'd do some kind of "capture the city from boogiemen" type of game where you'd have different objectives to take over I could definitely see it working great. Similarly they could have halflife-type games in open citys as well, just place the objectives near the important stuff and thus force them to though the same hoops they do in the linear settings.

The dilemma here is that they have a limited budget and having to build 10 times the content means 1/10th of the effort and detail, so a much uglier game.
I don't understand why I have to stress this so many times.

Another reason is there simply isn't anything better out there. Sure, there are some great older games but people care too much about graphics to go back to them.

Again, doesn't make business sense if they can sell as many as they do already.

[TheWretched]

Surely... if they spend less time on one area it will look worse. But shouldn't it be a trade off, too? I mean, better gameplay should result in better sales, although one can't argue that COD sales need improvement. Though, going forward, I think this is a way these games need to go. Not COD:GTA, but at least a bit more than the "schlauchlevels" ("hose" levels) they have today.