Beyond3D Forum

Kameradschaft · 23-Feb-2011, 20:41

The gameplay trailer looked simply amazing...now how that will translate into old hardware like PS3 and 360 will be the most interesting thing IMO.

Can't wait for more gameplay videos.

SteelOak · 23-Feb-2011, 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by _phil_

I don't see any.Enlighten solution should make it useless,btw.

I think there is some in that scene where soldier breaks the door

kagemaru · 23-Feb-2011, 20:56

Awesome trailer, but I want to see console footage. GDC maybe?

Quote:

Originally Posted by homerdog

It doesn't come out for a while. Assuming you have a monitor a good comp can be built for ~$550.

Do tell how this is possible as I would love to build a new gaming PC this year. I spec'ed a PC a few weeks ago and it would have cost me $1500

Granted I didn't spend much time looking for good prices, but still....

Silent_Buddha · 23-Feb-2011, 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by kagemaru

Do tell how this is possible as I would love to build a new gaming PC this year. I spec'ed a PC a few weeks ago and it would have cost me $1500

Granted I didn't spend much time looking for good prices, but still....

Unless you're doing multi-GPU enthusiast class video cards with some exotic components it shouldn't be nearly that much. ~550 USD might not bring you the latest and greatest, but you don't necessarily need the latest and greatest for a good gaming experience.

If you want some buying advice within X price range, you may want to repost the question in the PC buying advice forum though to avoid cluttering this thread.

We'll be quite happy to help you spec out a PC there. Just be aware you'll get a whole lot of different suggested builds.

Regards,
SB

pjbliverpool · 23-Feb-2011, 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by kagemaru

Awesome trailer, but I want to see console footage. GDC maybe?

Do tell how this is possible as I would love to build a new gaming PC this year. I spec'ed a PC a few weeks ago and it would have cost me $1500

Granted I didn't spend much time looking for good prices, but still....

It'll be interesting to see how the graphics translate to the consoles. How many players is the console version limited to if its less than 64?

@kagemaru, I recently priced up a Quad Core, 4GB, 560Ti system complete with case, M/K 1TB HDD etc.. for £450.

Neb · 23-Feb-2011, 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjbliverpool

It'll be interesting to see how the graphics translate to the consoles. How many players is the console version limited to if its less than 64?

24 players.

dragonelite · 23-Feb-2011, 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by kagemaru

Awesome trailer, but I want to see console footage. GDC maybe?

Do tell how this is possible as I would love to build a new gaming PC this year. I spec'ed a PC a few weeks ago and it would have cost me $1500

Granted I didn't spend much time looking for good prices, but still....

Dam you want a Nasa pc

Hotcooler · 23-Feb-2011, 22:49

Couple of grabs from 1080p youtube version.

More under the spoiler.

Delta9 · 23-Feb-2011, 23:19

PS3 needs MLAA and motion control!

Going from BFBC2 to Killzone3 is shocking how bad it looks in image quality compared.

ultragpu · 23-Feb-2011, 23:38

I say the footage could be from a 360 build judging from the visible jaggies and texture quality. Why? Because we know at least both PC and PS3 version feature will MLAA which doesn't produce those kind of jaggies. Still the game looks graphically very impressive especially considering the destruction, love the lighting a lot too. Can't say the same for geometry though as the level is kinda low in poly with simplistic box buildings and flat surfaces.

nightshade · 23-Feb-2011, 23:41

The biggest surprise here is the lighting, its so so so natural looking (Arma II anyone ?).

Everything else is pretty much what we would normally expect from a high profile game these days, the SSAO maybe a bit too pronounced though considering how easily noticeable it is in a teaser this short and varied, normally the best use of SSAO is when its done with subtlety.

AlStrong · 23-Feb-2011, 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by ultragpu

I say the footage could be from a 360 build judging from the visible jaggies and texture quality. Why? Because we know at least both PC and PS3 version feature will MLAA which doesn't produce those kind of jaggies.

That's a pretty amazing leap to conclusions...

A) it's just recorded footage.
B) there's nothing definitive until the developer says so.
C) the PC SKU has DX11, and wouldn't necessarily need MLAA.
D) another reason to show jaggies can simply be to tell people that it was real and not just complete bull.
E) Regarding MLAA, the public has no idea just how CPU intensive the game will be, so to instantly draw the conclusion that PS3 will have it is a bit much. It's a nice prediction, but somewhat meaningless in the face of other considerations... I say we wait until DICE actually discusses and makes it explicit. It's still early.

ultragpu · 23-Feb-2011, 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlStrong

That's a pretty amazing leap to conclusions...

A) it's just recorded footage.
B) there's nothing definitive until the developer says so
C) the PC SKU has DX11, and wouldn't necessarily need MLAA.
D) another reason to show jaggies can simply be to tell people that it was real and not just complete bull.

It's definitely not PS3 footage though, could very well be PC on med or something. I'm just speculating after all

.

ultragpu · 24-Feb-2011, 00:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlStrong

That's a pretty amazing leap to conclusions...

E) Regarding MLAA, the public has no idea just how CPU intensive the game will be, so to instantly draw the conclusion that PS3 will have it is a bit much. It's a nice prediction, but somewhat meaningless in the face of other considerations... I say we wait until DICE actually discusses and makes it explicit. It's still early.

Well so far we know for a fact that they're using the SPUs for Tile-based deferred shading and MLAA on the PS3 from a slide awhile ago, so is that not concrete enough?
http://bps10.idav.ucdavis.edu/talks/...GGRAPH2010.pdf

AlStrong · 24-Feb-2011, 00:04

Well, what is food for thought is that it uses Enlighten from Geomerics. From the SIGGRAPH2010 presentation:

Quote:

Current consolecycle -constrained by hardware
The main feedback we got from pre-release versions of Enlighten running on GPU was that GPU wasn’t a viable resource to use. It’s already over-utilised on the consoles, isn’t actually that powerful. In addition, the DX9-class hardware the consoles uses constrains our algorithmic options. Memory also very limited. So multi-core is clearly the best target for us.Another point to note is the huge range of abilities between the 3 targets –so scalability of our solution is vital (both up and down).

So I expect heavy, heavy CPU utilization not just from the destruction and physics, but the lighting... Would be interesting to see what differences result when you consider that the PS3 has the 6 SPEs versus three hyperthreaded Xenon Cores for number crunching.

edit: CPU for indirect lighting, GPU for direct lighting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ultragpu

Well so far we know for a fact that they're using the SPUs for Tile-based deferred shading and MLAA on the PS3 from a slide awhile ago, so is that not concrete enough?

The MLAA slide is taken from here, and it's about trying to find a solution for deferred shading. MLAA is given as an example. The slides do start off with the disclaimer of "using and experimenting"... What actually becomes usable in the end considering performance is really hard to say. It's ambiguous since we don't have access to the audio or any further notes for the slides.

AlStrong · 24-Feb-2011, 00:15

http://twitter.com/#!/repi/status/40496654306123776

Quote:

an MLAA-variant will be included

So that confirms PC...

Interesting:

http://twitter.com/#!/repi/status/40477978366459904

Quote:

Working on antialiasing & quality comparison slides for my #BF3 DX11 talk @ #GDC11 (Monday 1:45). Comparing noAA, MSAA, FXAA, SRAA, TSAA

ultragpu · 24-Feb-2011, 00:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlStrong

Well, what is food for thought is that it uses Enlighten from Geomerics. From the SIGGRAPH2010 presentation:

So I expect heavy, heavy CPU utilization not just from the destruction and physics, but the lighting... Would be interesting to see what differences result when you consider that the PS3 has the 6 SPEs versus three hyperthreaded Xenon Cores for number crunching.

The MLAA slide is taken from here, and it's about trying to find a solution for deferred shading. MLAA is given as an example. The slides do start off with the disclaimer of "using and experimenting"... What actually becomes usable in the end considering performance is really hard to say. It's ambiguous since we don't have access to the audio or any further notes for the slides.

Hm, it would be interesting to see the results of course. This is also another reason I hate multiplat devs showing footage without a proper annotation, it just confuses the customers.

homerdog · 24-Feb-2011, 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by kagemaru

Do tell how this is possible as I would love to build a new gaming PC this year. I spec'ed a PC a few weeks ago and it would have cost me $1500

Granted I didn't spend much time looking for good prices, but still....

$1500! For half that you could have a very strong machine. Start a thread in the Purchase Decisions forum if you want.

Rangers · 24-Feb-2011, 03:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kameradschaft

The gameplay trailer looked simply amazing...now how that will translate into old hardware like PS3 and 360 will be the most interesting thing IMO.

Can't wait for more gameplay videos.

Since when has the console version of a game looked drastically worse (minus framerate, resolution) than PC in recent memory?

The only console port I can think of of a game "taking advantage" of PC in the last 5 years is Crysis 2, and that seems dubious (I'm guessing it's just better shaders and the like).

L. Scofield · 24-Feb-2011, 04:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by _phil_

I don't see any.Enlighten solution should make it useless,btw.

Two clear instances:

1) @0:14 When the soldier opens the door with his shoulder.
2) @0:17 When the soldier is being drag away from enemy fire.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ultragpu

I say the footage could be from a 360 build judging from the visible jaggies and texture quality. Why? Because we know at least both PC and PS3 version feature will MLAA which doesn't produce those kind of jaggies.

The jaggies in the trailer are around small geometry, the same type MLAA fails at.

AlStrong · 24-Feb-2011, 04:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by L. Scofield

1) @0:14 When the soldier opens the door with his shoulder.
2) @0:17 When the soldier is being drag away from enemy fire.

At least going by their Siggraph10 presentation, they were working on Analytical Ambient Occlusion Volumes, which is different from SSAO as it is based on geometry instead. It appears to be extremely costly though (geometry, fillrate). However, it wasn't clear if it would be feasible for gameplay, so they may fall back to HBAO.

On a side note, it's odd seeing the motion blur artefacts near the beginning, particularly on the view weapon where you can see the polygon outline at the more translucent end. Wonder why they didn't fix it here.

ultragpu · 24-Feb-2011, 06:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by L. Scofield

The jaggies in the trailer are around small geometry, the same type MLAA fails at.

Not really, check out the weapon model and window frames, MLAA should easily fix those.
http://h-2.abload.de/img/bf3trailer6tyjc.jpg
http://h-2.abload.de/img/bf3trailer7xyis.jpg
But then again it could also be one of the new AA method Dice is using.

nintenho · 24-Feb-2011, 06:44

At 0:20 seconds, the cars parked on the left side of the street might be low detail so maybe the LOD is pretty aggressive, can't really tell since you can only see that for like one frame in this teaser. The other stuff in that frame looks good, I like how the wind blows the palm tree.

Don't know if it was linked but here's a collage of gifs posted on neogaf:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...&postcount=330

Maybe it's just random or smart AI but at 0:23 seconds, it kind of looks like the guy in the middle is peeking out from a chipped away section of the wall.

Shifty Geezer · 24-Feb-2011, 08:21

Gosh! Such short clips it's hard to get anything other than a fleeting impression, but so far the lighting is looking extraordinary. Will have to see how it holds up. Is this the first release of a Geomerics light-engine game?

Neb · 24-Feb-2011, 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rangers

Since when has the console version of a game looked drastically worse (minus framerate, resolution) than PC in recent memory?

The only console port I can think of of a game "taking advantage" of PC in the last 5 years is Crysis 2, and that seems dubious (I'm guessing it's just better shaders and the like).

It is actually more games than you would have thought during these years. You just need to actually experience it to have a clear reference. But lets not get into a comparision war now. Btw FB2 engine is also a pusher like CE3 and It makes good use of DX11.

Also looking forward to their presentation with all those custom AA methods.

23-Feb-2011, 23:41	#36
nightshade Naughty Boy! Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Liverpool Posts: 2,980	The biggest surprise here is the lighting, its so so so natural looking (Arma II anyone ?). Everything else is pretty much what we would normally expect from a high profile game these days, the SSAO maybe a bit too pronounced though considering how easily noticeable it is in a teaser this short and varied, normally the best use of SSAO is when its done with subtlety. __________________ wookies love cookies !

24-Feb-2011, 06:44	#48
nintenho Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Cupertino, California Posts: 2,003	At 0:20 seconds, the cars parked on the left side of the street might be low detail so maybe the LOD is pretty aggressive, can't really tell since you can only see that for like one frame in this teaser. The other stuff in that frame looks good, I like how the wind blows the palm tree. Don't know if it was linked but here's a collage of gifs posted on neogaf: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...&postcount=330 Maybe it's just random or smart AI but at 0:23 seconds, it kind of looks like the guy in the middle is peeking out from a chipped away section of the wall. Last edited by nintenho; 24-Feb-2011 at 06:51.

24-Feb-2011, 08:21	#49
Shifty Geezer uber-Troll! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Under my bridge Posts: 26,459	Gosh! Such short clips it's hard to get anything other than a fleeting impression, but so far the lighting is looking extraordinary. Will have to see how it holds up. Is this the first release of a Geomerics light-engine game? __________________ Shifty Geezer ... Tolerance for internet moronism is exhausted. Anyone talking about people's attitudes in the Console fora, rather than games and technology, will feel my wrath. Read the FAQ to remind yourself how to behave and avoid unsightly incidents.

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23-Feb-2011, 20:41	#26
Kameradschaft Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Europa? Posts: 278	The gameplay trailer looked simply amazing...now how that will translate into old hardware like PS3 and 360 will be the most interesting thing IMO. Can't wait for more gameplay videos.

23-Feb-2011, 22:49	#33
Hotcooler Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 35	Couple of grabs from 1080p youtube version. More under the spoiler.

23-Feb-2011, 23:19	#34
Delta9 Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 314	PS3 needs MLAA and motion control! Going from BFBC2 to Killzone3 is shocking how bad it looks in image quality compared.

23-Feb-2011, 23:38	#35
ultragpu Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Australia Posts: 2,397	I say the footage could be from a 360 build judging from the visible jaggies and texture quality. Why? Because we know at least both PC and PS3 version feature will MLAA which doesn't produce those kind of jaggies. Still the game looks graphically very impressive especially considering the destruction, love the lighting a lot too. Can't say the same for geometry though as the level is kinda low in poly with simplistic box buildings and flat surfaces.

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