[patsu]

Originally Posted by Toaddio

With a back trackpad, there's a lot of configurations that can work. Although using the actual analog sticks would be nice.

Yes, more natural if they can do it well (Not too loose over time).

[AlphaWolf]

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2011/1/31/

[Farid]

Originally Posted by AlphaWolf

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2011/1/31/

That was quite the informative and mundane comic.

Back in the days, before web comics, comics used to try to be funny or witty. Some failed, of course, like Garfield. But quite a series succeeded (The Far Side, Calvin & Hobbes, etc.)

[patsu]

Heh heh, yes, not so brilliant.

One of the execs mentioned that they need more time to finalize the pricing. Some of the specs hasn't been frozen yet it seems. And they need to gauge user interest.

[PixResearch]

Originally Posted by Farid

Some failed, of course, like Garfield.

OT, Garfield has been improved... http://garfieldminusgarfield.net/

"Garfield Minus Garfield is a site dedicated to removing Garfield from the Garfield comic strips in order to reveal the existential angst of a certain young Mr. Jon Arbuckle. It is a journey deep into the mind of an isolated young everyman as he fights a losing battle against loneliness and depression in a quiet American suburb."

[Silent_Buddha]

Originally Posted by Farid

That was quite the informative and mundane comic.

Back in the days, before web comics, comics used to try to be funny or witty. Some failed, of course, like Garfield. But quite a succeeded (The Far Side, Calvin & Hobbes, etc.)

Sometimes the editorial accompanying the comics there are far more elucidating.

In this case, they have a point. The NGP/PSP2 is undoubtedly far more expensive to manufacture than the NDS. And unlike something like the iPhone there isn't a 2 year contract that can be used to hide the real cost of the device.

IMO, if it launches at 249 USD, Sony are going to be eating a large chunk of the cost and hoping software more than makes up for selling the device at a loss. If Sony don't want it to be a loss leader, then the price may be in the 400-700 USD range.

They could skimp on the front and rear facing cameras, but do you really want to do that when you went to the trouble of including an expensive high resolution OLED touch screen? Accelerometers, GPS, another touchscreen on the back, WiFI, electronic compass...(panting for breath). Quad core Arm + graphics good enough to run games at 960x544. Which means you'll need to pack in a decent amount of RAM. How much flash will be onboard? It's also a media device right?

Actually, with a touchscreen and gyroscopes, I'm kinda hoping this one gets hacked like the PSP did. It would make a phenomenal HTPC remote + gamepad. Even better than a hacked PSP I used as a portable gaming device + Windows gamepad. Even better if Sony just allowed legal homebrew to enable that sort of functionality.

Would be awesome if it also had an IR emitter. This would rock as a touchscreen TV remote.

Regards,
SB

[patsu]

Too early to tell. This time round, it shares more parts/tech with high volume devices. Revenue source will include software, accessories, and subscription. BOM cost may look different next year. And software easier to write or port.

Hopefully, the experience will appeal to enough core gamers.

I agree it would make a great high end remote, especially with a dock.

[manux]

And there is the imminent move to 28nm chips whereas launch units for christmas 2011 will be manufactured on 45nm.

Perhaps there is something on NGP+PS3+PS Suite combination that makes more people want to get PSN+ to create additional profit for sony.

[Xenus]

Far too many people are using the 3DS to extrapolate where they thing the NGP price should be without taking into account Nintendo already told them they are ripping them off cause it got a better reaction then they expected. There is no way this thing will cost any where near $700. $500 is likely the ceiling is far as price goes and I seriously doubt they go that high.

[AlphaWolf]

Originally Posted by Xenus

Far too many people are using the 3DS to extrapolate where they thing the NGP price should be without taking into account Nintendo already told them they are ripping them off cause it got a better reaction then they expected. There is no way this thing will cost any where near $700. $500 is likely the ceiling is far as price goes and I seriously doubt they go that high.

Does anyone really think they'd sell at $400 or above? I can't see them even selling at that high, I even have trouble believing the 3ds will be popular at $250.

[patsu]

As a consumer, I will evaluate it w.r.t. iPod touch, 3DS, and iPad. So hope to see it somewhere between a 3DS and a low end iPad.

[Xenus]

I don't think they go above $400 but it's in the realm of possibility which $700 certainly isn't and if they manage to somehow pull off $300 or below they might have a real threat to the 3DS on their hands.

[Arwin]

I'm thinking the PSP2 isn't out for a year yet for a reason. They are aiming for $299 or less for the base sku I'm willing to bet. And what do we even know about component cost?

[Squilliam]

Originally Posted by Arwin

I'm thinking the PSP2 isn't out for a year yet for a reason. They are aiming for $299 or less for the base sku I'm willing to bet. And what do we even know about component cost?

So you're saying 2012 for the PSP2 with the announcement now really acting as a spoiler for the 3DS launch and no more? If 2012 is true, would that be early 2012 or a year behind the 3DS as was initially expected or late 2012 and 18 months behind?

[Xenus]

No what he is saying he is they announced it would be holiday 2011 which likely means Christmas. Which is practically a year away.

[Teasy]

Originally Posted by Arwin

I'm thinking the PSP2 isn't out for a year yet for a reason. They are aiming for $299 or less for the base sku I'm willing to bet. And what do we even know about component cost?

If they were aiming for $299 or less they'd have said so. The whole announcement was made purely to counter the 3DS launch, that kind of price would have been a massive help with that. As unfunny as that article is (apart from the move/handheld thing line) they have a point, there's a reason that they didn't even mention a price range.

[AlphaWolf]

Originally Posted by Teasy

If they were aiming for $299 or less they'd have said so. The whole announcement was made purely to counter the 3DS launch, that kind of price would have been a massive help with that. As unfunny as that article is (apart from the move/handheld thing line) they have a point, there's a reason that they didn't even mention a price range.

You certainly don't want to lock yourself into a release price when that date is nearly a year off.

[Xenus]

Yeah any estimate a year off is likely to be on the high and safe side. Which likely means they can't say it would be $299 now even if they wanted to. It doesn't necessarily mean they can't say that at launch though.

[Silent_Buddha]

Originally Posted by Xenus

Far too many people are using the 3DS to extrapolate where they thing the NGP price should be without taking into account Nintendo already told them they are ripping them off cause it got a better reaction then they expected. There is no way this thing will cost any where near $700. $500 is likely the ceiling is far as price goes and I seriously doubt they go that high.

Sure but consider an iPhone 4 (much closer in spec to the PSP2 than the 4th gen iPod touch) which is still less capable according to specs than the PSP2.

Traditional LCD which is well vested in the market and quite mature in technology. Versus OLED which is still relatively difficult to manufacture in high resolution. A quad core ARM Cortex-A9 compared to the single core Arm Cortex-A8 implementation in the iPhone. I'll assume memory will be roughly the same at 512 MB. They both support 3G, Bluetooth, GPS, WiFi etc. 2 cameras. Presumably the PSP2 will have a more capable GPU than the iPhone 4. I'll assume similar levels of flash memory on board.

Then you add in a second touchpad on the back, a D-pad, 2x Analog sticks, thumb buttons, another 6 face buttons.

In the US without a 2 year contract, it goes for 500+ with 16 GB memory. And that's presumably with a cheaper CPU, cheaper GPU, and less mechanical components.

Lets lowball the price without contract at 500 USD to make scenarios easier to calculate. If there's a 100% margin on the devices that's still 250 USD for the cost to manufacture. And that's for a far less capable product than the PSP2 with far less mechanical components. Hell there are places in the US selling the unlocked 32 GB Iphone 4 for over 1000 USD.

As Arwin mentioned they may be hoping for some manufacturing breatkthroughs to lower the cost between now and retail launch. Perhaps some of the current features will be cut in order to get the cost down (do you really need an electronic compass in the machine?).

But if it were to launch now, it certainly wouldn't be out of line to expect a 400-700 USD retail price to avoid the product being a loss leader.

Regards,
SB

[manux]

Originally Posted by Silent_Buddha

Sure but consider an iPhone 4 (much closer in spec to the PSP2 than the 4th gen iPod touch) which is still less capable according to specs than the PSP2.

Traditional LCD which is well vested in the market and quite mature in technology. Versus OLED which is still relatively difficult to manufacture in high resolution. A quad core ARM Cortex-A9 compared to the single core Arm Cortex-A8 implementation in the iPhone. I'll assume memory will be roughly the same at 512 MB. They both support 3G, Bluetooth, GPS, WiFi etc. 2 cameras. Presumably the PSP2 will have a more capable GPU than the iPhone 4. I'll assume similar levels of flash memory on board.

Then you add in a second touchpad on the back, a D-pad, 2x Analog sticks, thumb buttons, another 6 face buttons.

In the US without a 2 year contract, it goes for 500+ with 16 GB memory. And that's presumably with a cheaper CPU, cheaper GPU, and less mechanical components.

Lets lowball the price without contract at 500 USD to make scenarios easier to calculate. If there's a 100% margin on the devices that's still 250 USD for the cost to manufacture. And that's for a far less capable product than the PSP2 with far less mechanical components.

As Arwin mentioned they may be hoping for some manufacturing breatkthroughs to lower the cost between now and retail launch. Perhaps some of the current features will be cut in order to get the cost down (do you really need an electronic compass in the machine?).

But if it were to launch now, it certainly wouldn't be out of line to expect a 400-700 USD retail price to avoid the product being a loss leader.

Regards,
SB

IPhone4 BOM is not too high. For example this article places iphone4 BOM under 200$ http://www.electronista.com/articles...an.iphone.3gs/

And you have to remember 28nm is coming soonish after NGP launch. Also 45nm is more mature and cheaper at fall 2011 than it was at iPhone4 launch time. You have there almost 1.5 years worth of advancement in manufacturing(2010 summer versus 2011 christmas).

Who knows what kind of contracts 3g version of NGP will have, especially so if it's pimped as a media streaming device.

For the display we don't know yet if it will be manufactured by Sony or someone else. For some parts like the gyros we do know sony uses same stuff as in move controller which should affect pricing of chips.

But if it were to launch now, it certainly wouldn't be out of line to expect a 400-700 USD retail price to avoid the product being a loss leader.

But it's not launching now... Let's wait 10 months and see if the launch is nearby.

[Xenus]

Silent do I have to argue with you on the merits of using the prices apple sells anything at compared to the actual cost of the device? Apple is notorious for commanding a premium because they are apple and they can.

[Squilliam]

I really just don't see them taping out and launching on 28nm in 2011. Perhaps they might get away with a limited launch at the end of the year in Japan followed by launches in the U.S.A. and Europe in 2012. I also struggle to see how that system would be practical in handheld form without 28nm. This is the reason why I think they're really going to be launching in 2012 in the places which actually matter (to us(.

[manux]

Originally Posted by Squilliam

I really just don't see them taping out and launching on 28nm in 2011. Perhaps they might get away with a limited launch at the end of the year in Japan followed by launches in the U.S.A. and Europe in 2012. I also struggle to see how that system would be practical in handheld form without 28nm. This is the reason why I think they're really going to be launching in 2012 in the places which actually matter (to us(.

I wouldn't expect 28nm revision until sometime in 2012. But they won't need to go on with 45nm chips for too long... And anyway these mobile chips are not huge monsters that cost bazillions to make. It's more about optimizing power consumption than anything else.

I wouldn't be entirely surprised if the launch got delayed like you propose.

[wco81]

If they really do launch this year (and they may just launch in Japan), they may be supply-constrained, especially by that screen.

So no need to price it aggressively, even if they can.

iPod Touch 32 GB is $300, 3DS is $250, iPad starts at $500 and most new smart phones start out at $199 and then in a month or two fall to $99 or $49 or even free with a contract.

Sony is unlikely to get an iPad-like contract-less data plan in the US.

[eastmen]

Originally Posted by Arwin

I'm thinking the PSP2 isn't out for a year yet for a reason. They are aiming for $299 or less for the base sku I'm willing to bet. And what do we even know about component cost?

I bet it will be $400 bucks retail when it hits the state or $200 with a 2 year contract with one of the wireless providers