[temesgen]

Originally Posted by RudeCurve

That's not the point, the point is HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of existing TVs don't have WiFi. I'm sure there is some TV somewhere that has a built-in kitchen sink too...who cares? Doesn't mean I want a portable gaming device to be able to shoot dishwashing soap to a TV.



Unfortunately nobody is going to go out and buy a new TV with WiFi just so they could wirelessly stream NGP video....

I think a normal person with an existing TV would rather use a cable or docking station and I'm sure MILLIONS of people think the same.

I think I made it clear that I agree that an AV out peripheral would be ideal... I brought up wireless because I thought I read somewhere that Sony was intending to do an AV out peripheral for the NGP.

Edit:

Found it, not exactly clear...

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2011/...comment-587840

[RudeCurve]

I can assure you one thing....streaming full NGP resolution and framerate over WiFi will drain the battery very fast. That is the main reason why it ain't gonna happen even though it's technically feasible. For videos it would be acceptable but while playing games...nope not gonna happen.

[Prophecy2k]

Screw streaming NGP to a TV... i want to stream my TV (and by exstention PS3) to my NGP

I want more details on what they plan to do with their remote play functionality!

(P.S. such a missed opportunity with PSP. I'm hoping they'll rectify it this time around).

[temesgen]

Originally Posted by RudeCurve

I can assure you one thing....streaming full NGP resolution and framerate over WiFi will drain the battery very fast. That is the main reason why it ain't gonna happen even though it's technically feasible. For videos it would be acceptable but while playing games...nope not gonna happen.

Not that I want to appear like I am advocating for a wireless solution but why would power consumption matter if I am sitting in my living room? Personally the only time power consumption would matter to me is when i am away from an outlet.

[RudeCurve]

Originally Posted by temesgen

Not that I want to appear like I am advocating for a wireless solution but why would power consumption matter if I am sitting in my living room? Personally the only time power consumption would matter to me is when i am away from an outlet.

So why go wireless in the first place if you're going to be hooked up to a AC adapter?

[Prophecy2k]

Originally Posted by RudeCurve

So why go wireless in the first place if you're going to be hooked up to a AC adapter?

But you're not going wireless are you, because the conversation there was about streaming your NGP content to the TV wirelessly not the other way around.

[temesgen]

Originally Posted by RudeCurve

So why go wireless in the first place if you're going to be hooked up to a AC adapter?

Are you even reading the thread? I said and later posted a link suggesting the NGP wont have AV out hence the question/speculation about wireless streaming.

[RudeCurve]

Originally Posted by Prophecy2k

But you're not going wireless are you, because the conversation there was about streaming your NGP content to the TV wirelessly not the other way around.

Why even use a portable game console if you're going to be using it at home attached to a wall outlet? If you're gonna be streaming video output with the AC adapter attached why do you even need wireless streaming that requires a WiFi adapter for the TV? Why not use a cheap cable attached to the TV since you're gonna be using tethered to the wall outlet anyway???

Originally Posted by temesgen

Are you even reading the thread? I said and later posted a link suggesting the NGP wont have AV out hence the question/speculation about wireless streaming.

It says it won't have AV out which means it won't have it BUILT-IN like the new PSPs. Nowhere does it say it won't have a docking station WITH AV out.

[Prophecy2k]

Originally Posted by RudeCurve

Why even use a portable game console if you're going to be using it at home attached to a wall outlet?

Because you might want to play a game on the portable console that you simply cannot on a home console. Or you might not even have a home console?

There are many reasons.

[temesgen]

Originally Posted by RudeCurve

Why even use a portable game console if you're going to be using it at home attached to a wall outlet?

The whole discussion was around getting content to the TV and if streaming wirelessly might be an option. YOU said streaming would drain the battery.... I said draining power doesn't matter if you're streaming to a TV.

[RudeCurve]

Originally Posted by temesgen

The whole discussion was around getting content to the TV and if streaming wirelessly might be an option. YOU said streaming would drain the battery.... I said draining power doesn't matter if you're streaming to a TV.

Yes and I said streaming out to a TV drains the battery very fast which means you cannot do it while playing a game. So why would I want to be tethered to the wall while playing a game???

Did SONY change the name to NGNP?

[temesgen]

Originally Posted by RudeCurve

Why even use a portable game console if you're going to be using it at home attached to a wall outlet? If you're gonna be streaming video output with the AC adapter attached why do you even need wireless streaming that requires a WiFi adapter for the TV? Why not use a cheap cable attached to the TV since you're gonna be using tethered to the wall outlet anyway???

Sigh - as I have already said numerous times, I suggested streaming because I thought I had seen something earlier that the NGP would not support TV out, later in the discussion I found the article and on the second read it appears less clear. The whole question of wireless (for me) is a function of the idea that the NGP won't have TV out capabilities. Its not the ideal solution but if Sony decided to not release a AV out peripheral I would not have a problem streaming content to my TV even if I had to plug in my NGP due to power consumption.

As far as reasons why someone might want to do this, the reasons are legion. Perhaps I want to watch a movie already on the device, perhaps I want to play a game on a bigger screen again there are many reasons why someone would want to do this.

Edit:

Its pretty clear you just want to argue and post laughing faces as a reply so I am done with the conversation.

[RudeCurve]

Originally Posted by Prophecy2k

Because you might want to play a game on the portable console that you simply cannot on a home console. Or you might not even have a home console?

There are many reasons.

So basically you want it to be wireless but at the same time need it to be wired?

[Prophecy2k]

Originally Posted by RudeCurve

Yes and I said streaming out to a TV drains the battery very fast which means you cannot do it while playing a game. So why would I want to be tethered to the wall while playing a game???

Did SONY change the name to NGNP?

The PSPGo supports the use of a wireless DualShock 3 controller. I don't think NGP will be any different.

If you are at home and you have an NGP, and there is a means by which you can wirelessly stream content from your NGP to your TV then you could do so and play with a wireless DS3 controller, with your NGP hooked up to a power outlet. So YOU won't need to be physically tethered to the wall, the NGP will be effectively acting as a home console.

It would be the same situation if NGP had TV out as the NGP would be tethered to the screen. You might then ask, "why would you want to consume NGP content tethered to a TV?"... the answer, which is the same as for the PSP and iPad2, is that YOU won't be tethered, your device will, and so you get the benefit of consuming your portable device content on a nice big living room screen... many reasons why people would want that.

Hopefully that clears up any confusion in your mind.

[Prophecy2k]

Originally Posted by RudeCurve

So basically you want it to be wireless but at the same time need it to be wired?

Read my post above Hopefully you'll get the line of thinking.

[RudeCurve]

Originally Posted by temesgen

Sigh - as I have already said numerous times, I suggested streaming because I thought I had seen something earlier that the NGP would not support TV out, later in the discussion I found the article and on the second read it appears less clear. The whole question of wireless (for me) is a function of the idea that the NGP won't have TV out capabilities. Its not the ideal solution but if Sony decided to not release a AV out peripheral I would not have a problem streaming content to my TV even if I had to plug in my NGP due to power consumption.

As far as reasons why someone might want to do this, the reasons are legion. Perhaps I want to watch a movie already on the device, perhaps I want to play a game on a bigger screen again there are many reasons why someone would want to do this.

Edit:

Its pretty clear you just want to argue and post laughing faces as a reply so I am done with the conversation.

OK I think I know what you're trying to say now. You're basically saying that if it turns out that SONY doesn't provide a docking station with AV out then you'd like the option of streaming AV out via WiFi? Ok that sounds reasonable but like I said for 99.99% of the population you'd still need a WiFi adapter for the TV. I guess SONY could sell a WiFi adapter for TVs to make this happen if they end up not offering a docking station.

[RudeCurve]

Originally Posted by Prophecy2k

The PSPGo supports the use of a wireless DualShock 3 controller. I don't think NGP will be any different.

If you are at home and you have an NGP, and there is a means by which you can wirelessly stream content from your NGP to your TV then you could do so and play with a wireless DS3 controller, with your NGP hooked up to a power outlet. So YOU won't need to be physically tethered to the wall, the NGP will be effectively acting as a home console.

It would be the same situation if NGP had TV out as the NGP would be tethered to the screen. You might then ask, "why would you want to consume NGP content tethered to a TV?"... the answer, which is the same as for the PSP and iPad2, is that YOU won't be tethered, your device will, and so you get the benefit of consuming your portable device content on a nice big living room screen... many reasons why people would want that.

Hopefully that clears up any confusion in your mind.

Thanks yeah that clears it up but I already mentioned that option in my earlier post. I still don't see why wireless tethering would be any better than wired tethering given that the NGP has to be plugged in anyway.

Originally Posted by RudeCurve

I think a better solution would be a docking station with HDMI out and add the option of using a wireless controller for the NGP.

[Prophecy2k]

Originally Posted by RudeCurve

Thanks yeah that clears it up but I already mentioned that option in my earlier post. I still don't see why wireless tethering would be any better than wired tethering given that the NGP has to be plugged in anyway.

Yeah you're right there... but that wasn't really what we were arguing. We were discussing the wireless option based on the assumption that the NGP won't actually have a wired option. As it's been confirmed that NGP won't have HDMI out, but there's still a possibility for a wired dock option or wireless solution.

I think i'd personally prefer a wired dock option, it's elegant and it's even be good for Sony with the added benefit of selling the extra accessory. But if they do do a wireless streaming solution somehow, then i hope it would use the PS3 as a Wi-Fi reciever connected at the TV end so that way i wouldn't have to buy something else (kind of like a reverse "remote play" option).

[Shifty Geezer]

Originally Posted by Prophecy2k

Yeah you're right there... but that wasn't really what we were arguing. We were discussing the wireless option based on the assumption that the NGP won't actually have a wired option. As it's been confirmed that NGP won't have HDMI out, but there's still a possibility for a wired dock option or wireless solution.

the wireless solution is pretty theoretical though, as it doesn't make sense. You'd need an expensive wireless receiver to drive the TV, and to wire your NGP to a wall outlet. The most logical solution would be a docking bay, wired to TV and wall, with DS3 support for the controls. I suppose NGP could function as a remote or such, benefiting from the touch screen, and streaming content wirelessly that way, but I don't think the juice would last.

At this point I don't think NGP as a handheld media streamer to TV is sensible.

[ShadowRunner]

Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer

the wireless solution is pretty theoretical though, as it doesn't make sense. You'd need an expensive wireless receiver to drive the TV, and to wire your NGP to a wall outlet. The most logical solution would be a docking bay, wired to TV and wall, with DS3 support for the controls. I suppose NGP could function as a remote or such, benefiting from the touch screen, and streaming content wirelessly that way, but I don't think the juice would last.

At this point I don't think NGP as a handheld media streamer to TV is sensible.

By turning off the screen on NGP while streaming to the tv maybe the some of the power required for wifi will be offset. Regardless, if using the wifi is a such a no-no then online gaming is pretty much useless on the device aswell, they must be taking wifis effect into account when deciding the size of battery to include i would have thought, as they seem to be making a big push in that regard. Wi-fi, 3G and GPS will obviously all have an effect on overall battery life but surely the features wont be totaly unusable without a wall socket. If they have designed the device to have half decent battery life with wireless communications active then it might actualy bode well for offline usage.

[Nesh]

Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer

the wireless solution is pretty theoretical though, as it doesn't make sense. You'd need an expensive wireless receiver to drive the TV, and to wire your NGP to a wall outlet. The most logical solution would be a docking bay, wired to TV and wall, with DS3 support for the controls. I suppose NGP could function as a remote or such, benefiting from the touch screen, and streaming content wirelessly that way, but I don't think the juice would last.

At this point I don't think NGP as a handheld media streamer to TV is sensible.

I wonder if its possible to use some form of interaction between the PS3 and the NGP to play NGP games on the TV screen. I dont mean games that are cross platform compatible. I mean games that are NGP only

[ShadowRunner]

Originally Posted by Nesh

I wonder if its possible to use some form of interaction between the PS3 and the NGP to play NGP games on the TV screen. I dont mean games that are cross platform compatible. I mean games that are NGP only

Should be, they already have remote play id imagine it would just be a simple extension to that.

[RudeCurve]

Originally Posted by ShadowRunner

By turning off the screen on NGP while streaming to the tv maybe the some of the power required for wifi will be offset. Regardless, if using the wifi is a such a no-no then online gaming is pretty much useless on the device aswell, they must be taking wifis effect into account when deciding the size of battery to include i would have thought, as they seem to be making a big push in that regard. Wi-fi, 3G and GPS will obviously all have an effect on overall battery life but surely the features wont be totaly unusable without a wall socket. If they have designed the device to have half decent battery life with wireless communications active then it might actualy bode well for offline usage.

Years ago people were playing 4 player online coop Phantasy Star Online with the Dreamcast's 33k modem....

Wifi bandwidth and power consumption usage for online gaming is very different from streaming high resolution AV at multiple Mbps.

[Shifty Geezer]

Originally Posted by ShadowRunner

By turning off the screen on NGP while streaming to the tv maybe the some of the power required for wifi will be offset.

Possibly.

Regardless, if using the wifi is a such a no-no then online gaming is pretty much useless on the device aswell...

Online gaming uses small packets of info. Even browsing the web has moments of doing nothing. Video is constantly the maximum output from your Wifi device. I don't know the actual numbers, but you'd be looking at considerable battery drain. A spot of Googling throws up a comparison of wifi phones, and an 802.11b gets 4 hours talk time, 30 hours standby. So less than 1/7th the battery using the Wifi to full capacity.

[ShadowRunner]

Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer

Possibly.
Online gaming uses small packets of info. Even browsing the web has moments of doing nothing. Video is constantly the maximum output from your Wifi device. I don't know the actual numbers, but you'd be looking at considerable battery drain. A spot of Googling throws up a comparison of wifi phones, and an 802.11b gets 4 hours talk time, 30 hours standby. So less than 1/7th the battery using the Wifi to full capacity.

Onlive requires 1.5mbit at SD resolution i believe, so in theory NGP usage could be some fraction of full wifi badwidth. Also phones on stanby vs full usage is an unfair comparison, Wifi would be much less of a percentage of the total power consumption of something like NGP. If a phone is using 10 units of power in standby and 70 units with wifi at full capacity thats 60 units of power for wifi, if NGP consumes 300 units during gameplay that 60 extra units of power would have much less effect on overall power consumption, more like 20% than the 700% of the phone on standby. Obviously my numbers are totally made up though