[I.S.T.]

Originally Posted by Colourless

Until you attempt to use two or more mods that change the same thing and you need to create merge plugins. Its not hard, just really time consuming.

Wouldn't that be an issue with any engine?

I don't have much experience with modding(Just some light Diablo 2 modding), so I wouldn't know.

[Colourless]

Yes and no. When you edit an object in the editor it saves a new copy of the the entire object, not just the change you made to the object. So two different mods can edit the same object in different ways and they'll conflict when loaded even though it is reasonably trivial to combine the changes. The second loaded mod undoes the changes of the first loaded.

Problems combining scripts is a completely different thing entirely.

[I.S.T.]

Originally Posted by Colourless

Yes and no. When you edit an object in the editor it saves a new copy of the the entire object, not just the change you made to the object. So two different mods can edit the same object in different ways and they'll conflict when loaded even though it is reasonably trivial to combine the changes. The second loaded mod undoes the changes of the first loaded.

Problems combining scripts is a completely different thing entirely.

That is what I figured.

Honestly, making mods just seems like such a fucking hassle. =\

[swaaye]

Originally Posted by (((interference)))

The screen looks like its from a console (probably 360), 720p, some aliasing present:

I see types of aliasing even with 8X SSAA going in some games. Some lighting/shadowing effects in modern games are problematic. The shot they're showing definitely appears to me to have some decent amount of AA.

[(((interference)))]

Originally Posted by swaaye

I see types of aliasing even with 8X SSAA going in some games. Some lighting/shadowing effects in modern games are problematic. The shot they're showing definitely appears to me to have some decent amount of AA.

Well Fallout 3 did run with 4xMSAA on the 360 - it would be something if they managed to keep that level of aliasing (or have variable AA quality depending on load).

[dragonelite]

Gameinformer just uploaded a new screen

[swaaye]

I think the final judgment on this game will be the animation quality and the distant LOD. The close in stuff looks similar to Oblivion. Oh and also how atmospheric the soundtrack is. They should give Jeremy Soule enough money for a few dozen hours of music.

[Neb]

Originally Posted by dragonelite

Gameinformer just uploaded a new screen
http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/1...aturedjpg1.jpg

Like the artwork but they need to show more, that doesn't stand out at all vs New Vegas with texture packs. It looks worse. Some shots showing the forest from high altitude, city environment and upclose forest would be good. Also be good if you actually can spot any shadows to begin with.

[N_B]

You're not really expecting them to have 2048x2048 textures like those mods are you?

[I.S.T.]

Originally Posted by N_B

You're not really expecting them to have 2048x2048 textures like those mods are you?

Really. Comparing a modded game with a stock one is just not fair ever.

[Neb]

Not saying it has to have same texture res but the current shots dont make much to set it apart from a tweaked New Vegas with or without texture mods. I am sure it is the what seems to be total lack of shadows and similar lighting/shading. However I am not saying it will be worse but for a new engine supposedly cappable of a lot more they should really showcase the new features.

[swaaye]

Would be nice to have full dynamic shadowing one of these years. They claim some level of dynamic stuff.

[jlippo]

Originally Posted by swaaye

Would be nice to have full dynamic shadowing one of these years. They claim some level of dynamic stuff.

Would be nice to have artifact free shadowing.
I'm not big fan of dynamic shadowing which flickers when camera moves and ruins character closeups with all kinds of surface acne and sampling artifacts.

There should be quite nice possibilities for calculating framerate independant shadows for environtment from non moving objects.
Sun moves half of its width each minute, so the possibility would be there even with accelerated day/night cycle.

[swaaye]

With Oblivion, I would always set the timescale much slower, near to real life speed. I don't like it when days crank by in 20 mins in a game.

I agree that blocky shadows suck. But they are still better than nothing I think...

[(((interference)))]

Interview with Todd Howard up where they ask him fan questions:
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/podcas...dhowardse.aspx

Quite interesting, some things I remember:

- no spears
- only 3 weapon skills, one handed, two handed and archery with branching 'perk trees' within each skillset to give the sword, axe, blunt, dagger specialisation you had in previous titles.
- Perks trees also present in magical skills, eg. destruction will have different kind of fire spells, like runes you cast on the ground that explode when enemies walk over, the traditional fireballs as well as flamethrower like spells.
- game has about 280 perks (including levels of the same perk). Perks largely determine the capabilities of a character (as opposed to the raw level, which has a minor effect). Due to the perk branching even a lvl 50 character who has all his skills at 100 will only get to pick 50 of the 280 perks available.
- there might not be rideable horses - they want a much better implementation than in Oblivion and it'll prob only be in if it can hold up to the likes of RDR.
- spell creation will probably not be in as it is too 'spreadsheety' and the ability to wield different spells in each hand somewhat compensates for it.
- world size is about as big as Oblivion in terms of landmass, however the mountainous terrain tend to make it feel larger to travel across.
- all new facial system, character creation may not be as tunable as it was in Oblivion but yields far better looking results.
- you can't ride dragons, big focus on dragons - they have a dedicated dragon team that has been working on them for 2 years.
- have companion NPCs like Fallout, however companions won't be as deep characters won't be as deep but you can have large numbers of companions unlike Fallout.
- Werewolves, vampires, shapeshifting etc. is been explored and will be in if it works in the game.
- Lots of crafting, it seems each specialisation gets one crafting skill, ie. combat - smithing, magic- enchanting and alchemy has been moved under the stealth banner. Also crafting that doesn't require skills such as cooking etc.
- radiant AI works to tailor mostly minor quests to your character, eg. you go into town and a person you know has had their child kidnapped and the game will send you to a nearby dungeon that you haven't visited and can determine the loot you get to match your character & playstyle.
- very commited to 11/11/11 release date
- no comment on question on multiple endings like Fallout 3
- HUD only appears as needed, small compass bar is the only thing always onscreen.
- PC will ship with higher resolution textures than the consoles, PC also gets different UI.
- Xbox 360 seems to be lead platform
- Achievements/trophies to be similar to previous titles
- 3D,Kinect, Move support unlikely as expected
- you level much faster than in Fallout 3 & Oblivion, due to the necessity of handing out perks at a reasonable rate.

[swaaye]

I really suggest you guys don't read the previews if you don't want to be horribly disappointed. Go read some Oblivion previews if you want to know what I mean.

[(((interference)))]

Originally Posted by swaaye

I really suggest you guys don't read the previews if you don't want to be horribly disappointed. Go read some Oblivion previews if you want to know what I mean.

Disappointed in what sense? Radiant AI, I'm not expecting anything much here as they had it in Oblivion at first (which all the previews wrote about) but they couldn't stop it from breaking the game (i.e. AI behaviours would trigger event chains that could leave key NPCs dead).

Other than that I have no reason to not believe they'll deliver on the other things, Oblivion was definitely an improvement over Morrowind from a gameplay perspective so why would Skyrim not play better than Oblivion and Fallout 3?

[swaaye]

Well there's an Oblivion video preview with Howard narrating that will have you thinking you can have relationships with Radiant AI people and there will be full dynamic object shadowing. And there's the Game Informer article that talked about people aging and other stuff. While some of this is indeed in the game it was not really at all like what was described, which is not surprising because previews are part of the hype train.

This time I want to discover what's cool on my own.

[Kittonwy]

Originally Posted by Nebula

Not saying it has to have same texture res but the current shots dont make much to set it apart from a tweaked New Vegas with or without texture mods. I am sure it is the what seems to be total lack of shadows and similar lighting/shading. However I am not saying it will be worse but for a new engine supposedly cappable of a lot more they should really showcase the new features.

Does the new game even have HDR lighting? The biggest weaknesses of the last few Bethesda games were lack of HDR lighting, lack of proper shadows and just the complete ugliness of the character models.

[N_B]

Both Oblivion and Fallout 3 have HDR..on all platforms.

[dragonelite]

Just saw some new screens i really like this one

[Neb]

Originally Posted by Kittonwy

Does the new game even have HDR lighting? The biggest weaknesses of the last few Bethesda games were lack of HDR lighting, lack of proper shadows and just the complete ugliness of the character models.

All had HDR but perhaps Oblivion on PS3 lacked it and/or 360. Anyway AFAIK been FP16 (64bit) HDR on PC for all the 3 games. The games also use tonemapping but subtle.

Ignoring config and mods the lighting is vanilla and so is TODs. Certainly doesn't stand out as being a non HDR game or use bad lighting.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.p...postcount=1658
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.p...postcount=1655

[Neb]

Originally Posted by dragonelite

Just saw some new screens i really like this one
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...s/bbe9cc58.jpg

Oohh.. cant say no to dragons.

[Neb]

More screenshots.

http://www.gamersyde.com/pop_images_...m-14663-4.html
http://www.gamersyde.com/pop_images_...m-14663-5.html
http://www.gamersyde.com/pop_images_...m-14663-2.html
http://www.gamersyde.com/pop_images_...m-14663-1.html

[N_B]

They say the water effects have proper 3D movement. But seems there are no reflections now.

Oh well, at least in the first shot there are proper shadows!