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Old 07-Jan-2011, 16:47   #1
jeff_rigby
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Default 4K displays announced at CES 2011

CES News:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zoaov...&feature=feedu

Sony showed a 4K res TV to be sold 2012. 1:00 (minute) into the video it's mentioned.

Quote:
Even more interesting were three larger autostereoscopic displays: a 24.5-inch OLED panel, a 46-inch 4K resolution panel and a 56-inch 4K resolution panel. None of the autostereoscopic displays will be available as finished TVs this year, and Sony didn’t say at the press conference when they expected these technologies to be ready for consumers. The picture quality was not nearly as refined as on current 3D TVs, but the concept is still compelling.
http://mygadgetnews.com/2011/01/06/t...v-at-ces-2011/

Toshiba 4K res TV

http://news.cnet.com/8301-27076_3-20010174-248.html

Youtube supports 4K res video

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/home-theat...nd-not-3d/3854

Quote:
In fact, the company says that 4K sets could reach the market by next year (2011), though as with all HD innovations, it’ll cost you. The first sets will be sky high in price, no doubt, before the technology filters down to the rest of us masses.

It’s clear that 3D will just become another spec on most HDTVs, so the question will be if 4K will be awesome enough to get buyers opening their wallets for an updated set. I haven’t seen it in person on a TV screen, so I can’t say, but if you have viewed 4K in a home video setting, let us know in the Comments section. But expect 4K to be one of the stories of CES 2011.
15 December 2010 | Posted in: Corporate / News Blog

Quote:
JVC LSI Enables High-speed Image Processing in HD Camcorders
Yokohama, Japan, December 14, 2010 - JVC (Victor Company of Japan, Limited) announced today its development of the world’s first LSI for high-speed processing of Full High-Definition video and stills on one chip for HD camcorders.

The LSI enables shooting and recording Full HD, including both 2D and 3D images, and also ultra-high-resolution 4K 2K images of approximately four times the resolution of Full HD. High-speed photography with high-speed processing also is possible. The LSI achieves low power consumption and enables lower system costs by incorporating all image-processing technologies for HD shooting, including camera-signal processing and video/still image codecs.

Consumers are increasingly demanding HD-level TVs, camcorders and other consumer electronics products, requiring manufacturers to offer products capable of rapidly processing extra-high-resolution images of the latest standards, including 4K2K. JVC’s LSI will advance this trend by introducing next-generation image-processing technologies for both professional and consumer camcorders.

JVC will exhibit a new consumer camcorder with the LSI at the 2011 International Consumer Electronics Show (CES), which will take place in Las Vegas, Nevada from January 6 to 9.
http://www.htpcreviews.org/lg-builds...tion-3d-lcd-tv

LG builds 4K res TV

http://www.digitalversus.com/ces-201...ews-17273.html

Quote:
Just a few hours before the opening of CES 2011, Samsung has unveiled its plans to offer a transparent 19'' display with a resolution of 4K!
http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/09/p...ips-this-fall/

Quote:
Panasonic's 152-inch 4K-resolution 3D plasma ships this fall
I believe the PS3 can display 4K for pictures and 2D video Confirmed: this thread message #62 http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=59292&page=3 cell BE and RSX used in 4K commercial editing hardware developed by Sony.

Quote of Shifty Geezer Dec 27, 2010 in the 4K res is coming thread.
Quote:
This thread closed until I know whether it's tackling 3D (where it'll be put into the 3D thread), or native 4k rendering which is such a lost cause it's not going to happen and needn't be discussed! (but I'll open it up then anyway for those who really want to chase the impossible)
Shifty, I also did not expect it this fast, two weeks after you say it's not going to happen...classic.

Last edited by jeff_rigby; 25-Jan-2011 at 15:27.
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Old 07-Jan-2011, 18:03   #2
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Originally Posted by jeff_rigby View Post
Shifty, I also did not expect it this fast, two weeks after you say it's not going to happen...classic.
Doesn't change my point. Link me to news of the first 4k game (and I mean proper 3D, shaded game, and not a simple vector or 2D title) and I'll break out the humble pie. Until then, I state as if fact that no console or set top box will be setting 4K as their standard. Consoles failed to hit 1080p this gen, barely managing half that rez most of the time. Next gen introduces 3D, which is asking over 2x current requirements at 1080p before we even get onto actually improving the pixels being rendered. 4K may be supported in web browsers and the like, and 4K TVs may provide high quality 1080p 3D, but it won't be a render target for games excepting perhaps the least demanding, in the same way 1080p features rarely in anything but simple download titles. I suppose GT6/7 will support 4K, because PD are kinda crazy like that!
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Old 07-Jan-2011, 18:25   #3
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Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer View Post
Doesn't change my point. Link me to news of the first 4k game (and I mean proper 3D, shaded game, and not a simple vector or 2D title) and I'll break out the humble pie. Until then, I state as if fact that no console or set top box will be setting 4K as their standard. Consoles failed to hit 1080p this gen, barely managing half that rez most of the time. Next gen introduces 3D, which is asking over 2x current requirements at 1080p before we even get onto actually improving the pixels being rendered. 4K may be supported in web browsers and the like, and 4K TVs may provide high quality 1080p 3D, but it won't be a render target for games excepting perhaps the least demanding, in the same way 1080p features rarely in anything but simple download titles. I suppose GT6/7 will support 4K, because PD are kinda crazy like that!
Sorry missed the word "rendering". In the start of the 4K thread I posted that I believed that 4K would be a PS4 feature. The PS3 can display 4K but only a PS4 (speculation) can render a 3D game @4K. 3-D will still be 2K res. 2013 (rumored PS4 release date) 4K TVs will be available and should during the life of the PS4 be a Standard.

How about PS4 and 4K resolution as well as PS3 and 3-D

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Old 07-Jan-2011, 18:30   #4
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Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer View Post
I suppose GT6/7 will support 4K, because PD are kinda crazy like that!
So 5 years after the release of the next gen console?

Pencil me in for a 4k set in 2020.
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Old 07-Jan-2011, 19:12   #5
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Originally Posted by AlphaWolf View Post
So 5 years after the release of the next gen console?

Pencil me in for a 4k set in 2020.
That's Shifty's opinion. I believe the PS3 will support 4K (pictures and 2D video) by the end of 2011. The PS4 will probably support 4K resolution games.

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Old 07-Jan-2011, 19:16   #6
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Originally Posted by jeff_rigby View Post
That's Shifty's opinion. I believe the PS3 will support 4K (pictures and 2D video) and 1080P 3-D by the end of 2011. The PS4 will probably support 4K resolution games.
It might support 4k resolution, but no one is going to use it, for a long time.
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Old 07-Jan-2011, 20:03   #7
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It might support 4k resolution, but no one is going to use it, for a long time.
You mean the PS4 for games? I suspect that many of the current games could be run with minor changes on a faster console and render at 4k.

If you mean media, JVC has a LSI one chip solution for a 4K and 3-D @2K camera. First post.

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Old 07-Jan-2011, 21:49   #8
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Originally Posted by jeff_rigby View Post
That's Shifty's opinion. I believe the PS3 will support 4K (pictures and 2D video) and 1080P 3-D by the end of 2011. The PS4 will probably support 4K resolution games.
I can pretty much guarantee that PS4 won't be able to do games at 3840x2160 (LG TV) or 4096x2160 (Panasonic) or 4096x3072 (film and Youtube) resolutions unless they have greatly reduced IQ.

Even the top high end video cards available today on PC can sometimes struggle at 2560x1600 with minor IQ enhancements. Although I suppose if you don't mind the video solution in the PS4 costing 350-600 USD alone (not counting the rest of the console) it may be possible. I'd imagine a Playstation 4 costing roughly 1000 USD using components that won't be out for another 2+ years and pulling about 350-450 watts at the wall might pull it off at reduced IQ.

And it certainly doesn't help that there doesn't appear to be a standard for "4k" displays which don't match any of the "4k" film and media that's been produced.

Either way, I'd say not bloody likely. I may get a 4k display for my PC however, since I can play games in a window I don't have to worry about whether it'll struggle at native res or not.

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Old 07-Jan-2011, 23:25   #9
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Originally Posted by jeff_rigby View Post
You mean the PS4 for games? I suspect that many of the current games could be run with minor changes on a faster console and render at 4k.

If you mean media, JVC has a LSI one chip solution for a 4K and 3D camera. First post.
Most the current games don't even render at 1080P. Once that becomes a standard on consoles we can start worrying about the next one, some time in the distant future.
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Old 08-Jan-2011, 04:01   #10
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Originally Posted by jeff_rigby View Post
You mean the PS4 for games? I suspect that many of the current games could be run with minor changes on a faster console and render at 4k.

If you mean media, JVC has a LSI one chip solution for a 4K and 3D camera. First post.
I suspect that PS4 will be happy enough if it can render in 1080P!
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Old 08-Jan-2011, 07:41   #11
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The 4K autostereo stuff is based on microlens array, said to be bad quality.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/03/p...hopefully-our/

I call these kind of displays (passive/autostereo trade-off) pub3d. Probably the auto stuff is not ready for the pub yet, though.
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Old 08-Jan-2011, 10:52   #12
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Doesn't change my point. Link me to news of the first 4k game (and I mean proper 3D, shaded game, and not a simple vector or 2D title) and I'll break out the humble pie.
Didn't they demo 4k GT5 a year or so ago using the expensive Sony projector ? I think it uses several (four?) PS3s. They also demo the 240 fps GT5 by chaining PS3 too. Maybe those are research for PS4.

I don't think 4k TVs are all that but I am all for affordable 4k projector though. Maybe GT7 in 4k at 240 fps on 300" screen. One can dream right

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Old 08-Jan-2011, 11:08   #13
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They did indeed demo 4k GT5. Perhaps in combination with the recent patent for networked rendering, PS4 will render 4k with 4 PS4's in a cluster?
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Old 08-Jan-2011, 11:43   #14
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That would solve lots of complainers yeah ? 30fps not good enough ? get another PS4 for 60fps, still not good enough another one and so on. Want 4k get 4 PS4. But 16 PS4 will probably cost you more than 8 grand That's before electricity bill.
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Old 08-Jan-2011, 12:14   #15
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Didn't they demo 4k GT5 a year or so ago using the expensive Sony projector ? I think it uses several (four?) PS3s. They also demo the 240 fps GT5 by chaining PS3 too. Maybe those are research for PS4.
yes, a glorified tech demo that OUTPUT 3840x2160. The demonstration didn't prove anything about RENDERING at 3840x2160. For all we know, each PS3 rendered at 960x540 and then upscaled to 1920x1080. As we all know, on current gen consoles, it's fairly rare for games to be rendered even at 720P let alone 1080P.
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Old 08-Jan-2011, 12:27   #16
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It's not as rare as you think it is...

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=46241

A lot of the high profile games having trouble at that res != most of the library having trouble at that res.
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Old 08-Jan-2011, 14:07   #17
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Originally Posted by aaronspink View Post
yes, a glorified tech demo that OUTPUT 3840x2160. The demonstration didn't prove anything about RENDERING at 3840x2160. For all we know, each PS3 rendered at 960x540 and then upscaled to 1920x1080. As we all know, on current gen consoles, it's fairly rare for games to be rendered even at 720P let alone 1080P.
Well my guess is, given the tech of snyching Playstations together, they could use as many PS3s to get to the true 4k res if they really wanted too. It's just tiles. I think Polyphony might have a debug version of GT5 that they can play on high end PC too. I am sure today high end PC can run GT5 at 4k res without any trouble.
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Old 08-Jan-2011, 14:13   #18
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Originally Posted by I.S.T. View Post
It's not as rare as you think it is...

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=46241

A lot of the high profile games having trouble at that res != most of the library having trouble at that res.
Seriously?! 14 titles out of 223 BRD games isn't rare? And the listed resolution doesn't account for framerate either. If 1080p is running at 15 fps, the consoles are clearly struggling. If the current gen struggles with 1080p, with the console hardware having cost a lot at launch and 1080p set to be the popular TV resolution of this generation, the chances of targeting 4k next gen for the glut of games is miniscule. Unless the aim next gen is to not advance rendering quality, only number of pixels. 4k support in 2D PSN titles and the like is an option, although that'd inflate download sizes considerably, but 4K for Uncharted, Gears, Halo, FIFA, COD, Mass Effect, Assassin's Creed, etc., etc. is not going to happen.
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Old 08-Jan-2011, 15:05   #19
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Doesn't change my point. Link me to news of the first 4k game (and I mean proper 3D, shaded game, and not a simple vector or 2D title) and I'll break out the humble pie.
bf2 bad company can run at 5760x3200
as can warcraft and many other games
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Old 08-Jan-2011, 17:26   #20
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bf2 bad company can run at 5760x3200
as can warcraft and many other games
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yes using 6 displays, but can graphics cards actually power a 4k display yet?

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Old 08-Jan-2011, 18:46   #21
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Seriously?! 14 titles out of 223 BRD games isn't rare?
I'm pretty sure he(she?) meant 720p games aren't rare.
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Old 08-Jan-2011, 19:33   #22
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I'm pretty sure he(she?) meant 720p games aren't rare.
Ah, yes, you're right. My bad. 720p is a quite ordinary resolution. Shame 60fps isn't a normal speed!
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Old 08-Jan-2011, 20:09   #23
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I'm pretty sure he(she?) meant 720p games aren't rare.
Jesus, last time I used monitor with 768 lines it was 14" IBM CRT.
Yet 10+ years later, getting monitor able to represent perfectly any resolution between 800x600 and 1920x1200 is next to impossible.
Thats what I call "progress"
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Old 08-Jan-2011, 20:22   #24
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Ah, yes, you're right. My bad. 720p is a quite ordinary resolution. Shame 60fps isn't a normal speed!
That is one hell of a shame.

And it's she.
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Old 08-Jan-2011, 20:29   #25
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Shame 60fps isn't a normal speed!
Yeah. Give me 60fps or give me death!

Actually, I'd prefer 120fps. We don't really need higher res, we need more fluid framerates and better texture filtering and antiailiasing.

What we in particular DON'T need is higher res at the cost of better texture filtering and antialiasing....
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