Beyond3D Forum

AzBat · 04-Jan-2011, 03:43

Not to be outdone by Google & Apple, but it looks like Microsoft will be announcing at CES that they will be releasing a Windows OS tailored for set-top boxes & TVs just like Google TV.

Quote:

Microsoft's going to make a splash in this market with a stripped-down version of Windows tailored for set-top boxes and connected TVs. The software is a version of its embedded device software, overlaid with the Windows Media Center interface, with media streaming and remote-control capabilities.

These new Windows TV boxes have been glimpsed online since Microsoft unveiled its new embedded software lineup in April, and then again at an Intel conference in September.

The boxes are expected to cost around $200 and go on sale later this year. They'll pose a serious challenge to the new Apple and Google TV devices, largely because the Windows boxes have a polished and familiar TV-program guide that makes it easy to blend and navigate both online and broadcast content.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...0_brier03.html

Confirmation of ARM version of Windows?

Tommy McClain

Squilliam · 04-Jan-2011, 03:55

I was wondering about something like that. Kinect as an interface?

NRP · 04-Jan-2011, 03:55

Awesome. I can channel surf and web surf as I'm respawning.

Silent_Buddha · 04-Jan-2011, 04:25

I'm surprised MS didn't try to push that more earlier. They've always had an extremely attractive and useful media hub in Media Center. They just needed to slim it down greatly and remove anything not required in a set top box experience and then integrate basic web browsing and social networking services.

I'm surprised it's taken this long for MS to go for a set top box rather than only offering media center capabilities in full blown versions of Windows.

Regards,
SB

AzBat · 04-Jan-2011, 04:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silent_Buddha

I'm surprised MS didn't try to push that more earlier. They've always had an extremely attractive and useful media hub in Media Center. They just needed to slim it down greatly and remove anything not required in a set top box experience and then integrate basic web browsing and social networking services.

I'm surprised it's taken this long for MS to go for a set top box rather than only offering media center capabilities in full blown versions of Windows.

Regards,
SB

Yeah, I'm surprised they hadn't gone after this earlier too. Now they are all but forced to now that Google is in the biz.

While I think Kinect with something like this makes perfect sense, something tells me they will keep Kinect exclusive to the Xbox. I could see them try to do some cross-platform promoting though. Maybe some Zune branding?

Tommy McClain

Silent_Buddha · 04-Jan-2011, 05:04

I think whether or when they use Kinect for this will depend on whether or when demand for Kinect on X360 drops to a level where they can divert units for something else without impacting sales of X360 consoles and games.

As well, I'd imagine they'll want a far more robust and universal method of motion control before making it a primary draw for a potential set top box. As such, consider X360 integration as the BETA for Kinect use in a set top box with MS paying close attention to the experimentation being done on PC.

As to branding, I'd expect both Zune (media) and Xbox Live (gaming) to feature prominently. And of course, if it isn't a version of Media Center it'll probably have Media Center integration.

Regards,
SB

TheChefO · 04-Jan-2011, 06:40

Am I understanding this correctly, that MS have developed a whole new STB just for windows media integration with a web browser?

Why not just put the guts of a xb360 into it and add a tv tuner with the software on top?

Hardware is already there already mass produced and more importantly, would give them an instant advantage over their competitors in kinect casual gaming compatibility along with a huge library of xb360 games and a well formed online community in live...

Sometimes it seems MS is too big for their own good.

Miksu · 04-Jan-2011, 06:44

This might explain why the Media Center in Windows 7 haven't gotten any love from Microsoft since the OS launched. MC7 has some glaring problems like the missing DVB-C -support (which Windows Vista + TVPack had...) and no DNLA support (Media Player has it...).

corduroygt · 04-Jan-2011, 08:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheChefO

Am I understanding this correctly, that MS have developed a whole new STB just for windows media integration with a web browser?

Why not just put the guts of a xb360 into it and add a tv tuner with the software on top?

Hardware is already there already mass produced and more importantly, would give them an instant advantage over their competitors in kinect casual gaming compatibility along with a huge library of xb360 games and a well formed online community in live...

Sometimes it seems MS is too big for their own good.

It's a different market. Xbox is still a 80W standalone device. They may want to get a 10W class device to compete with roku/wdtv player, or get them integrated into blu-ray players, TV's, etc without a lot of extra cost.

Squilliam · 04-Jan-2011, 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by corduroygt

It's a different market. Xbox is still a 80W standalone device. They may want to get a 10W class device to compete with roku/wdtv player, or get them integrated into blu-ray players, TV's, etc without a lot of extra cost.

I would say the Xbox 360 is at minimum one shrink away from being combined into other devices. Im sure if they went 32nm SOI with a full system on chip with ED-Ram included and maybe a couple of the other board components like the southbridge and scaler with the RAM bought onto the package they would have something which they could easily integrate into other products given it would probably use <40W without a HDD and optical drive so long as they used an efficient power supply to feed it.

AzBat · 04-Jan-2011, 15:45

Looks like will get some kind of social Kinect service on Xbox...

http://www.glimpsedog.com/content/48...ouncement.html

Can't find much more since almost all my game sites are blocked at work.

Tommy McClain

rabidrabbit · 04-Jan-2011, 20:38

To prevent people doing nasty things to each other in their avatar forms, I think there'll be some kind of invisible barrier around every avatar so that you'll not be able to touch each other. At least not more than holding hands

That barrier will extend further in front and behind of avatars, than in sides of course.
An avatar safe zone to prevent sexual harrasment.

Scott_Arm · 04-Jan-2011, 21:37

People are saying it'll be like Home, but I have no idea how it would work without a controller. How would you navigate the world? You can't really walk around much or change the direction you're facing. I'm guessing it will be something more simple. In the end, if it's just a special play place for avatars to spend Live points, I have no interest.

TheChefO · 04-Jan-2011, 22:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by corduroygt

It's a different market. Xbox is still a 80W standalone device. They may want to get a 10W class device to compete with roku/wdtv player, or get them integrated into blu-ray players, TV's, etc without a lot of extra cost.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding their intent, but from what I gather, they are looking to integrate this tech into cable set top boxes.

Which would be a smart move.

With that being the case, wattage doesn't matter.

As for integrating into tv, that market can wait. The majority of HDTVs on the market today will not be replaced anytime soon. When xb360 tech is shrunk enough to be under 50watts at load (and engineering clock reduction for idle and light use to further reduce power load) then they can look into tv integration.

As far as potential market is concerned, I don't have numbers, but I'd guess these internet TV add-ons aren't selling all that hot (yet). TV's seem to all be integrating some type of internet capability so it's tough to say how many consumers are desiring this tech in its current form.

Once the discussion moves away from tv integration, power draw doesn't matter. Form factor of a cable set top box is irrelevant and can handle 80w, 100w, 200w, etc.

Silent_Buddha · 05-Jan-2011, 01:30

Low power is still going to be desirable in a set top box. A set top box with an audible fan would be bad. Even a box with a fan which goes bad over time would be bad. And since those set top boxes are usually small self contained units, it would likely need a small fan which would turn faster and not last as long as the fan currently in the X360 S.

So, it would be highly unlikely, IMO. As well, the X360 has no way to record shows, nor to even change channels. A derivative of Windows Media Center is far more likely, with an extremely stripped down version of Windows or perhaps even ported to Windows CE.

Regards,
SB

Tchock · 05-Jan-2011, 02:32

Windows 7 "TV" runs on Atom (CE4100) though... so that might not be the case of porting to ARM.

It looked a bit flat when it was demoed on the Acer HTPC back in IDF, so here's to hoping that they polish it up.

A 80W STB would look grossly unattractive next to the $99 aTV. That's the worst case scenario of all. What MS wants is a new-gen STB interface that does TV+EPG+DVR well (So far gTV and aTV have *sucked* at such) while streaming media from your PC too.

one · 05-Jan-2011, 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silent_Buddha

I'm surprised it's taken this long for MS to go for a set top box rather than only offering media center capabilities in full blown versions of Windows.

I'm surprised no one had mentioned WebTV and its relation with the Xbox project and 3DO.

Scott_Arm · 05-Jan-2011, 16:55

I'm curious as to how this relates to Microsoft Mediaroom or the Microsoft set-top boxes used on AT&Ts U-verse network. It seems like they have a number of solutions for TV.

dragonelite · 05-Jan-2011, 21:47

Microsoft presentation
http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/new...e-liveblog.ars

AzBat · 05-Jan-2011, 22:45

Native ARM support confirmed. Looks like Windows 8 & Windows Phone 8 will converge too. Neat.

EDIT: Official Press Release

Tommy McClain

AzBat · 06-Jan-2011, 04:30

Kinect support for Netflix & Hulu Plus was announced. Both coming "this spring". See video at Joystiq...

http://www.joystiq.com/2011/01/05/hu...ing/#continued

Tommy McClain

eastmen · 06-Jan-2011, 05:50

This is a great year for MS imo . Everything is just connecting with me . WP7 , Xbox 360/kinect , MS TV and the new crop of fusion notebooks (yes not directly ms but still running windows) and then that asus 12 inch tablet running win 7 .... its just really friggen nice. It seems like MS is finally waking up

04-Jan-2011, 06:40	#7
TheChefO Naughty Boy! Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 4,656	Am I understanding this correctly, that MS have developed a whole new STB just for windows media integration with a web browser? Why not just put the guts of a xb360 into it and add a tv tuner with the software on top? Hardware is already there already mass produced and more importantly, would give them an instant advantage over their competitors in kinect casual gaming compatibility along with a huge library of xb360 games and a well formed online community in live... Sometimes it seems MS is too big for their own good. __________________ "...the first five million are going to buy it, whatever it is, even if it didn't have games." "I don't think we're arrogant" ...it seems laughable, laughable I tell you, that early 2012 technology that is under the 2005 budgets for the consoles cannot fit into a next gen box. - Acert93

04-Jan-2011, 06:44	#8
Miksu Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Finland Posts: 950	This might explain why the Media Center in Windows 7 haven't gotten any love from Microsoft since the OS launched. MC7 has some glaring problems like the missing DVB-C -support (which Windows Vista + TVPack had...) and no DNLA support (Media Player has it...). __________________ Mikael Koskinen blog: .NET Programming, Windows Phone Development, Software Architecture

05-Jan-2011, 02:32	#16
Tchock Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Jurong West Posts: 778	Windows 7 "TV" runs on Atom (CE4100) though... so that might not be the case of porting to ARM. It looked a bit flat when it was demoed on the Acer HTPC back in IDF, so here's to hoping that they polish it up. A 80W STB would look grossly unattractive next to the $99 aTV. That's the worst case scenario of all. What MS wants is a new-gen STB interface that does TV+EPG+DVR well (So far gTV and aTV have sucked at such) while streaming media from your PC too. __________________ <rpg.314> - I have a feeling that shielding 480 from the evils of afr, embodied in that creation of satan called 5970, will be a part of epic battle between good and evil <neliz> - The Devil doesn't wear green.

05-Jan-2011, 22:45	#20
AzBat Agent of the Bat Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Alma, AR Posts: 3,820	Native ARM support confirmed. Looks like Windows 8 & Windows Phone 8 will converge too. Neat. EDIT: Official Press Release Tommy McClain Last edited by AzBat; 05-Jan-2011 at 22:48. Reason: Added press release

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04-Jan-2011, 03:55	#2
Squilliam Beyond3d isn't defined yet Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Zealand Posts: 3,107	I was wondering about something like that. Kinect as an interface?

04-Jan-2011, 03:55	#3
NRP Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 1,869	Awesome. I can channel surf and web surf as I'm respawning.

04-Jan-2011, 04:25	#4
Silent_Buddha Regular Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 9,227	I'm surprised MS didn't try to push that more earlier. They've always had an extremely attractive and useful media hub in Media Center. They just needed to slim it down greatly and remove anything not required in a set top box experience and then integrate basic web browsing and social networking services. I'm surprised it's taken this long for MS to go for a set top box rather than only offering media center capabilities in full blown versions of Windows. Regards, SB

04-Jan-2011, 05:04	#6
Silent_Buddha Regular Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 9,227	I think whether or when they use Kinect for this will depend on whether or when demand for Kinect on X360 drops to a level where they can divert units for something else without impacting sales of X360 consoles and games. As well, I'd imagine they'll want a far more robust and universal method of motion control before making it a primary draw for a potential set top box. As such, consider X360 integration as the BETA for Kinect use in a set top box with MS paying close attention to the experimentation being done on PC. As to branding, I'd expect both Zune (media) and Xbox Live (gaming) to feature prominently. And of course, if it isn't a version of Media Center it'll probably have Media Center integration. Regards, SB

04-Jan-2011, 15:45	#11
AzBat Agent of the Bat Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Alma, AR Posts: 3,820	Looks like will get some kind of social Kinect service on Xbox... http://www.glimpsedog.com/content/48...ouncement.html Can't find much more since almost all my game sites are blocked at work. Tommy McClain

04-Jan-2011, 20:38	#12
rabidrabbit A Reformed Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Finland Posts: 4,798	To prevent people doing nasty things to each other in their avatar forms, I think there'll be some kind of invisible barrier around every avatar so that you'll not be able to touch each other. At least not more than holding hands That barrier will extend further in front and behind of avatars, than in sides of course. An avatar safe zone to prevent sexual harrasment.

04-Jan-2011, 21:37	#13
Scott_Arm Regular Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 7,224	People are saying it'll be like Home, but I have no idea how it would work without a controller. How would you navigate the world? You can't really walk around much or change the direction you're facing. I'm guessing it will be something more simple. In the end, if it's just a special play place for avatars to spend Live points, I have no interest.

05-Jan-2011, 01:30	#15
Silent_Buddha Regular Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 9,227	Low power is still going to be desirable in a set top box. A set top box with an audible fan would be bad. Even a box with a fan which goes bad over time would be bad. And since those set top boxes are usually small self contained units, it would likely need a small fan which would turn faster and not last as long as the fan currently in the X360 S. So, it would be highly unlikely, IMO. As well, the X360 has no way to record shows, nor to even change channels. A derivative of Windows Media Center is far more likely, with an extremely stripped down version of Windows or perhaps even ported to Windows CE. Regards, SB

05-Jan-2011, 16:55	#18
Scott_Arm Regular Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 7,224	I'm curious as to how this relates to Microsoft Mediaroom or the Microsoft set-top boxes used on AT&Ts U-verse network. It seems like they have a number of solutions for TV.

05-Jan-2011, 21:47	#19
dragonelite Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: netherlands Posts: 1,488	Microsoft presentation http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/new...e-liveblog.ars

06-Jan-2011, 04:30	#21
AzBat Agent of the Bat Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Alma, AR Posts: 3,820	Kinect support for Netflix & Hulu Plus was announced. Both coming "this spring". See video at Joystiq... http://www.joystiq.com/2011/01/05/hu...ing/#continued Tommy McClain

06-Jan-2011, 05:50	#22
eastmen Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,155	This is a great year for MS imo . Everything is just connecting with me . WP7 , Xbox 360/kinect , MS TV and the new crop of fusion notebooks (yes not directly ms but still running windows) and then that asus 12 inch tablet running win 7 .... its just really friggen nice. It seems like MS is finally waking up

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