[ToTTenTranz]

Originally Posted by Gubbi

More than half of their R&D efforts were toward Symbian and MeeGo, which Elop made sure was for nothing.

I've said all along, that aligning software development with Microsoft was sound long term, but holy crap did Elop b0rk the transition up.

Cheers

Yap, the board of directors sure placed the whole company beneath Microsoft.
WP7 is, by every possible business standpoint, a total disgrace.

The only hope I can see for Nokia will be with Windows 8 for smartphones.
Of course, most of Nokia's factory capacity will be reduced to near nothing by then, making them awfully close to HTC in differentiation abilities.

[wco81]

Why would W8 phones fare any better than WP7 phones?

It's going to be the same Metro UI, right?

[ToTTenTranz]

Originally Posted by wco81

Why would W8 phones fare any better than WP7 phones?

It's going to be the same Metro UI, right?

Because of software compatibility between desktop, tablet and smartphones.
One O.S. to rule them all, while changing only the UI's proportions between screen sizes.

Windows Phone 7 is shallow, to say the least. Windows 8 won't be.

[french toast]

Originally Posted by ToTTenTranz

Because of software compatibility between desktop, tablet and smartphones.
One O.S. to rule them all, while changing only the UI's proportions between screen sizes.

Windows Phone 7 is shallow, to say the least. Windows 8 won't be.

Your speaking in terms where wp8 is w8... do mean that or are you refering to the shared Kernel...but still different operating systems?

Although we did see a phone message tile on an early W8 screen..and Balmer slipped up once or twice..i still thought they would have distinct phone/tablet/pc software..just with a shared user interface (metro) and broard app compatibility. (shared Kernel)

[hoho]

I'd be quite surprised if compability would go beyond what they had with WP6/CE where bigger part of winapi/MFC was supported on both platforms.

Also, WP7 is around 1.5 years old by now and has had the possibility to learn from goods and bads that others have done in much longer time, including MS itself. If it hasn't got anywhere so far I find it very hard to believe they ever will.

[wco81]

So software compatibility and integration is what's holding WP7 back now?

How much more would WP8 be integrated with W8?

I presume WP7 syncs with Windows 7, uses all the MS services like XBL and Live Messenger?

[ToTTenTranz]

I believe Windows 8 for ARM will support most software made from mid-2013 onwards, whereas Windows 8 for x86 will run pretty much everything that runs on Windows 7 today.
Then, there'll be Windows 8 ARM for ARM smartphones and Windows 8 for x86 smartphones.

Of course, Windows 8 "Smartphone" may be initially exclusive to high-end phones with 720p/768p screens, while WP7 may get upgrades for lower-end devices (like Lumia 610).


And as I said, the only difference between Windows 8 desktop, tablet and smartphone editions will be in the proportions of UI elements. Smartphones should even be able to access the "classic windows" UI when connected to a docking station with keyboard and mouse.


I'm not just pulling this out of thin air, OEMs are already counting on it.
It's the next logical step for Microsoft (Apple too, eventually), and for computing devices altogether.
Google may eventually get stuck without this desktop "extension", given Chrome's apparent failure.

[Gubbi]

Phones, tablets and PCs won't have the same kernel, but all will feature the Windows RT (RunTime) software stack which Metro apps will be coded for. This means that developers can support all Microsoft platforms by merely changing the target in Visual Studio (at least in theory).

This means you be able to run your apps on all platforms. It gives Microsoft a giant crowbar to break into markets. You work PC runs Win 8? Well, so will your work phone, because that way you get to run the same apps. You buy a few casual games for your work phone while stuck in airports, - sure would be nice if your tablet in your livingroom could run the same games, better get a Win 8 tablet. Etc.

Cheers

[wco81]

That is an ideal but Android developers have enough problems getting apps. and games working on different smart phones.

So will graphics-intensive apps. or those that use the hardware unique to mobile devices (GPS, compass, gyro) work seamlessly on the desktop?

[ToTTenTranz]

Originally Posted by wco81

That is an ideal but Android developers have enough problems getting apps. and games working on different smart phones.

I'm pretty sure the Windows development can cope a whole lot better with hardware fragmentation than Android development.

Originally Posted by wco81

So will graphics-intensive apps. or those that use the hardware unique to mobile devices (GPS, compass, gyro) work seamlessly on the desktop?

What happens when you try to run Skyrim in a PC with sandybridge's IGP?
As all games, if the API compliance and amount of video memory is there, it'll just run slower.

Regarding hardware unique to mobile devices.. it just won't work? "GPS not found"?
It happens with my GPS-less tablet, why wouldn't it happen with a Windows 8 App?

Besides, the software can have a flag telling which kind of device it was made for, so the O.S. can send a warning if the user tries to run a software that wasn't meant for that device.

[french toast]

Well i hope you are right TOTTENTRANZ thats something that i have been wondering for ages..a proper game changer..full w8 on a unique Nokia high end phone...goodbye ICS, c ya Jellybean off you go Android.
Apple?? not a repeat of the 90's..but will damage there pride if nothing else as IOS and Apple products have lost the x factor the last few cycles...even if sales are still growing.

[Trawler]

I expect the 360 will get WinRT app compatibility too, so one app will run on PC/Tablet/Phone/Xbox.

MS are on the right track with this one IMO.

[dagamer]

Originally Posted by Gubbi

Phones, tablets and PCs won't have the same kernel, but all will feature the Windows RT (RunTime) software stack which Metro apps will be coded for. This means that developers can support all Microsoft platforms by merely changing the target in Visual Studio (at least in theory).

This means you be able to run your apps on all platforms. It gives Microsoft a giant crowbar to break into markets. You work PC runs Win 8? Well, so will your work phone, because that way you get to run the same apps. You buy a few casual games for your work phone while stuck in airports, - sure would be nice if your tablet in your livingroom could run the same games, better get a Win 8 tablet. Etc.

Cheers

Err... the WinRT software stack is the kernel for all intents and purposes (it's heavily intertwined). It is not some simple software layer that floats above traditional Windows. Microsoft has said several times that the "desktop" is an app just as much as any other Metro app, heck it doesn't even get loaded when a machine first boots to the Start Screen.

And Paul Thurrott has already confirmed that Windows Phone 8 uses the Windows 8 kernel. It just will use an interface very similar to Windows Phone 7 (for the sake of familiarity).

Source: http://www.winsupersite.com/article/...preview-142154

The "developer holy grail" as I like to call it is that you basically write one app for smartphone, tablet, and desktop/laptop. Since all Windows 8 apps are required to have a docked view, such a view can automatically be forced to run when the app is on a smartphone, solving the "app problem" WP7 currently has. And I find it hard to believe that developers that want to make money will ignore a platform that is for the near future is guaranteed to sell hundreds of millions of new copies each year.

[hoho]

Originally Posted by dagamer

The "developer holy grail" as I like to call it is that you basically write one app for smartphone, tablet, and desktop/laptop.

having them all share the same UI would be horrible for end-user though.

I kind of liked the QTQuick way of being able to quickly and easily generate "throwaway" GUIs for each of your target system so that you can have specially optimized interface on all targets.

[dagamer]

Originally Posted by hoho

having them all share the same UI would be horrible for end-user though.

I kind of liked the QTQuick way of being able to quickly and easily generate "throwaway" GUIs for each of your target system so that you can have specially optimized interface on all targets.

UI would change based on the platform, much like how the iPhone and iPad share entire view controllers now. I adapted my iPhone app to an iPad UI in 4 days knowing absolutely nothing about how to program for the iPad. When you've got that kind of turn around, the benefits are simply astounding.

[Lazy8s]

http://www.engadget.com/2012/03/10/m...en-lag-to-1ms/

Touchscreens are in great need of this improvement. Maybe Microsoft can partner with a panel maker to get this into Windows Phone/tablet devices first within the next few years.

[I.S.T.]

http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/26...ad-core-phones

[Exophase]

Anyone who thinks that dual core is useless for phones or not worth the rather minimal price you pay for it is dead wrong. That the CEO of a huge cell company can claim something as ignorant as dual cores (in any competent SoC out today) being both useless AND battery draining is quite unsettling. To say the least.

The whole thing will quickly be made moot by the fact that no one is making a high end ARM SoC today that's still single core, unless he's also comfortable using substantially weaker older (and probably more expensive) SoCs in upcoming phones. Today the whole thing sounds like little more than sad excuses for still using single core processors and OSes that aren't good at utilizing anything different. Even if he truly believes this he's a fool for trying to buck the marketing strength behind multicore.

[eastmen]

They will be switching to dual core come the fall. However after the battery issues were fixed lumia 810 users were reporting very good battery life

[ToTTenTranz]

Stephen Elop is hardly someone with a large technical knowledge.
Furthermore, I'm still trying to figure out what exactly is he good at.
Future will tell if he's either a really successful trojan horse or just a guy who has very little understanding of the company he's running and this ecossystem he's trying to embrace.



While we don't know exactly what he said (maybe someone here can translate mandarin?), that statement is as ridiculous as it can be.
Everyone with a tiny little bit of knowledge on this matter is aware that the only reason for the top-end WP7 smartphones to be using souped up Snapdragon S2 SoCs is because the O.S. doesn't support multi-core yet.
The same goes for different resolutions, external storage, USB host, HDMI out, and tons of other things we've seen in top-end Android smartphones but we can't see in top-end WP7.

[wco81]

Why is WP7 taking so long for multicore support? Even WebOS and the Playbook OS supported dual-core a year ago?

[ToTTenTranz]

Originally Posted by wco81

Why is WP7 taking so long for multicore support? Even WebOS and the Playbook OS supported dual-core a year ago?

WP7's market share is kind of irrelevant, and afaik there are no signs showing that it's going to improve...
I think it wouldn't be bad if Microsoft is actually planning on dropping WP7 development in order to focus on speeding up Windows 8 for smartphones. This means there'd be no Windows Phone 8, only Windows 8 Smartphone.
WP7.5 may stay around for low-end devices, sharing the Metro UI, somewhere along the timeline disappearing into thin air as even low-ends will eventually get dual Cortex A7s at +1GHz speeds and DX9 GPUs (2015?) for W8S compliance?


Windows 8 on smartphones has so much greater potential than any "windows phone" will ever have, why spend too much time/money with it?

[wco81]

Why will W8 phone fare any better than WP7?

I can understand the argument that W8 could dominate on tablets, since they would ship hundreds of millions of copies of W8 (though not sure how many W8 ARM tablets would be shipped).

But W8 phones would look pretty much like WP7 phones, no? Same Metro UI, maybe app. development will improve but otherwise, they'd be running on whatever hardware that Android manufacturers decide to devote to W8, right?

Right now, Samsung's flagship is the Galaxy series running Android. How much of that production would they divert to W8 phones if their Android phones are selling so well?

[eastmen]

Originally Posted by wco81

Why will W8 phone fare any better than WP7?

I can understand the argument that W8 could dominate on tablets, since they would ship hundreds of millions of copies of W8 (though not sure how many W8 ARM tablets would be shipped).

But W8 phones would look pretty much like WP7 phones, no? Same Metro UI, maybe app. development will improve but otherwise, they'd be running on whatever hardware that Android manufacturers decide to devote to W8, right?

Right now, Samsung's flagship is the Galaxy series running Android. How much of that production would they divert to W8 phones if their Android phones are selling so well?

I dunno , depends on how many apple lawsuits Samsung looses . They might not be able to sell andriod phones any where

[metafor]

Originally Posted by wco81

Why will W8 phone fare any better than WP7?

I can understand the argument that W8 could dominate on tablets, since they would ship hundreds of millions of copies of W8 (though not sure how many W8 ARM tablets would be shipped).

But W8 phones would look pretty much like WP7 phones, no? Same Metro UI, maybe app. development will improve but otherwise, they'd be running on whatever hardware that Android manufacturers decide to devote to W8, right?

Right now, Samsung's flagship is the Galaxy series running Android. How much of that production would they divert to W8 phones if their Android phones are selling so well?

Whether it'll be W8 phone or WP8, if the metro apps developed for desktop find their way over, then it'll be a big draw.