[OpenGL guy]

Originally Posted by keritto

Non-OC HD7970 is below GTX680 in GPGPU performance, except in DP because GK104 is not meant to be a GPGPU part.

HD7970 is slower than GTX680 in what compute apps?

[CarstenS]

Originally Posted by OpenGL guy

OpenCL exposes DPFP for HD7970. See SiSoft Sandra results, for example.

As well as it does for Pitcairn and Cape Verde - at their respective rates of course. Results are as expected.

[doob]

Originally Posted by Gubbi

Either way, as long as AMD is shifting 7970s there is no reason to lower price. Note that all those bitching about AMD not slashing prices actually wants the card.

Cheers.

Not me. I don't want the 7970. But i'd be interested in the mid range 7870. Unfortunatly the 79xx are pushing the mid range prices way over. So i (and likely many others) won't even consider getting any amd(or nvidia) card. Don't bother mentioning the 77xx since they are a waste of money for no benefits to the folks who usually upgrade their PC.

[itsmydamnation]

Originally Posted by doob

Not me. I don't want the 7970. But i'd be interested in the mid range 7870. Unfortunatly the 79xx are pushing the mid range prices way over. So i (and likely many others) won't even consider getting any amd(or nvidia) card. Don't bother mentioning the 77xx since they are a waste of money for no benefits to the folks who usually upgrade their PC.

you could almost attribute this to the slow down in process shrinkage. AMD targeted people on 5XXX in its marketing slides. Given that we will see two generation on a single process you need to leave yourself room to move for the second (power and die space). The reality is people favoring both sides dont see that much value in 7970/680 vs 6970/580 given the price of both.

given this trend I hope AMD play it smart and only do 1 GPGPU "targeted" card per process but i doubt we will see that. Not that Tahiti is that GPGPU centric but i think most people would agree from a pure gaming performance perspective there is likely a more optimal balance then Tahiti.

[mczak]

Originally Posted by keritto

And above all Barts (HD6800) was ~270mm² chip iirc and Pitcairn (HD7800) is ~220mm². And PitcairnXT requires less power components, and could be accompanied with cheaper cooling, because it's less TDP chip than BartsXT, even when HD7800 is max OCed (w/o chip overvoltage)

That's not quite true. Some reviews show PitcairnXT requiring slightly less power than BartsXT, some slightly more I guess it's luck of the draw (or test conditions). In any case the difference is small enough that these chips have the same power and cooling requirements for practical purposes.

[Squilliam]

Originally Posted by Rangers

Dave's comment was a bit...odd.

Offering lesser performance for a higher price is not any way to "build a brand". It's not rocket science.

And I doubt the market will stand for it, AMD will either increase the performance (raise default clocks, make a copy of Nvidia boost), lower the price, or sell near zero. Those are the options.

For the past 12 days, GTX 680 is sold out, so D-Day has not arrived just yet, but it will.

I believe Dave said that multi-monitor was fairly significant in this market segment at one point, so if you're doing that then the 7970 with 3GB would be a good choice and the driver support also makes it a good choice as well. If you're on multi-monitor then chances are you're an early adopter whom will be itching for more performance.

Let us also not forget that not every 'consumer' is a completely informed consumer. 3GB looks faster than 2GB for the same reason that partners still develop uber RAM SKUs 'just because'.

[UniversalTruth]

Originally Posted by Squilliam

I believe Dave said that multi-monitor was fairly significant in this market segment at one point, so if you're doing that then the 7970 with 3GB would be a good choice and the driver support also makes it a good choice as well. If you're on multi-monitor then chances are you're an early adopter whom will be itching for more performance.

Let us also not forget that not every 'consumer' is a completely informed consumer. 3GB looks faster than 2GB for the same reason that partners still develop uber RAM SKUs 'just because'.

Non informed consumers will most probably go for the NV option since the brand is more popular.
Again market share, market share= more affordable prices.
Higher prices can actually have a negative effect on the brand and its value too, as consumers can't see what they throw their money for.

[itsmydamnation]

Originally Posted by UniversalTruth

Non informed consumers will most probably go for the NV option since the brand is more popular.
Again market share, market share= more affordable prices.
Higher prices can actually have a negative effect on the brand and its value too, as consumers can't see what they throw their money for.

based off the steam software and hardware survey then aleast 1/2 buying people buying computers in the DX11 era must be "informed" people(47/53 is the split). I love your bias its so easy to pick on with raw facts .

[UniversalTruth]

Originally Posted by itsmydamnation

I love your bias

I see as you don't stop mentioning about my bias. My bias is to value my hard earned money. I don't print money too, so I and many like me will go for the most affordable option. And no, my bias is not towards NV if you guess it.

[itsmydamnation]

Originally Posted by UniversalTruth

I see as you don't stop mentioning about my bias. My bias is to value my hard earned money. I don't print money too, so I and many like me will go for the most affordable option. And no, my bias is not towards NV if you guess it.

then where is your raging about the price of the 680 and its value(after all you could attribute the price difference between 7970 and 680 purely from a BOM perspective) and how having a mid range chip at high end prices will destroy Nvidia brand image.

then there is the deliberate attempts to distort the reality about past AMD performance relative to Nvidia.

if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...... then its a duck.

[Rangers]

7990 is two 1 ghz chips? http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/26...u-z-screenshot

yikes, thats gonna be fast.

[UniversalTruth]

Fake, as already said, it was a 1st April joke...

[Dr Evil]

Incredibly lame April's fool joke... April fools are supposed to be something totally ridiculous or hilarious. That one was just like some regular rumour made up by some BS site. I don't find anything funny in that.

[Rangers]

The date on it is April 2?

[UniversalTruth]

Originally Posted by Rangers

The date on it is April 2?

And so what? Today is the 5th, so that is in all cases quite old "news" to be discussed.


BTW, are you serious or just kidding?

[Dr Evil]

Yes but Fudzilla wasn't the original source. Techpowerup posted than on 1st and have comfirmed it as aprils fool joke. A lame one.

[Kaotik]

Originally Posted by Rangers

The date on it is April 2?

Yeah, but the original "article" everyone based their news on was on April 1st

[french toast]

Originally Posted by Kaotik

Yeah, but the original "article" everyone based their news on was on April 1st

...And FUDZILLA fell for it!!

[lanek]

Originally Posted by french toast

...And FUDZILLA fell for it!!

Lol, and with a 7870 photos, they have not even been surprised...

[ECH]

I looked at a overclock review of the 7970 vs the 680 and just couldn't understand how they got the results they did. Most user reviews I've seen shown something different. I started to read some of the comments and came across this post and thought that it would be more important to always manually set the fan speed to 85% or higher as a default option when using high OC. Just so you eliminate any throttling.

But that brings me to ask is there a general understanding of how throttling works for a video cardboard when high oc'ing is performed?

[lanek]

At same time, i dont know why they dont overclock the 7970 ... if they want make a 680 OC article, good to put it agains the stock 680, but what is doing the stock 7970 in this article ?


actually i have test my 7970 (second card is in RMA ) with 0% TDP all the round to 1300mhz.... i have start to use +20% TDP limit only after 1350mhz, a run on unigine have fail at 1350mhz . ( who have pass without problem then with +20% ) ..

No throttle at all... I dont know exactly how is working the slider, if it is linked with temp or not .. at 1220mhz, the temp is only of 42°C max.. stock i got 36-37°C full load max.

The temp full load with this waterblock are just completely sick.. never seen so low temperature on a card..

System:
- Laing D5 ( 8-24V ) + EK X-Top rev2 ( absolutely genious, high perf + silent )
- 360mm Rad EK XTX + 3 Gentle typhoon ( 1450 AP14 - 100% silent, way better of my Typhoon 1850rpm )
- EK Bay Spin reservoir
- EK Supreme HF Nickel
- 2x EK 7970 Nickel + Acetal EN. ( second card is in RMA )
- 1/2" White tubing, compression fitting, EK coolant
- Gelid Extreme Thermal grease


3Dmark11, max temp 42°C: 1212mv @ 1221mhz/1500mhz : (sick temp, cpu is at 5.1ghz in the loop )








1315/1500mhz 1.25V ( not maxed just a default run )




default outside Tesselation normal: ( Exactly half of what i get with 1150mhz CFX )
single HIS 7970 1300/1500mhz



16xAF + Extreme tesselation ( no AA ) 1250mhz


Conclusion, if you are searching a waterblock for your 7970's... get a look on EK waterblock site.

[ECH]

Yeah, I noticed that too. I was looking for the 7970 to also be overclocked from the get go and it wasn't there. I think we can drop the temps variable from overclock reviews and just make sure that their is no throttling. There is more then the gpu that could be a concern such as mosfets, vregs, vram, etc which may not offer temps should be also be properly cooled by increasing the fan speed. On full block WC solutions that should negate some of that.

[jaredpace]

Originally Posted by lanek

actually i have test my 7970 ....
run on unigine have fail at 1350mhz . ( who have pass without problem then with +20% ) ..

Try 1400mv/1750mv with asus bios?
http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/1440/gput.jpg

[lanek]

Good idea Jared , or just do a hardmode. when my second card is back .. note i was just speak about the TDP limit slider. i can use 0% till 1300mhz-1325mhz. then it start to need +20%. (on unigine, i dont speak about a stable 24/24 oc ofc, even if unigine is not what i will call the most tender test ).

I have not test the max OC yet. look like i can run at 1350mhz with 1270-1280mV... so 1375-1400mhz maybe is possible with 1300-1315mV. I dont know exactly what the limit is, and i will not forcibly make suicide run without Dice lol.

Originally Posted by ECH

Yeah, I noticed that too. I was looking for the 7970 to also be overclocked from the get go and it wasn't there. I think we can drop the temps variable from overclock reviews and just make sure that their is no throttling. There is more then the gpu that could be a concern such as mosfets, vregs, vram, etc which may not offer temps should be also be properly cooled by increasing the fan speed. On full block WC solutions that should negate some of that.

Yes, with a full cover waterblock, the temperature of mossfets, power regulator etc are night and day.. even the top of the card stay cold on this place ( if you have seen a 7970, this place get quickly really really hot )

[ECH]

Originally Posted by lanek

Yes, with a full cover waterblock, the temperature of mossfets, power regulator etc are night and day.. even the top of the card stay cold on this place ( if you have seen a 7970, this place get quickly really really hot )

You know what would be interesting? To see if there is a performance delta (using a line graph) of an OC @ 1200/1400 using the stock HSF using automatic fan speed vs manual fan speed of 50%, 60%, 70% and 80%. Just to see if the card performs better when you have proactive vs reactive cooling. It shouldn't be limited to just the 7970 either, I would like to see 680 thrown in there as well.