[djskribbles]

Originally Posted by inefficient

I'm enjoying the hell out of GT5 so far.

But graphics are certainly a mixed bag. I think Prologue has a stronger impact overall just because it was more consistent. The best of GT5 certainly looks better than GT5P. But there are many times when GT5 looks worse than GT5P as well. Mostly because of some of the incredibly out of place standard cars they threw in. Also there are some tracks that are not as polished as the Prologue batch.

But the actual driving is fantastic. It feels so much better than GT5P, the way the road feels, the sense of speed, the cockpit cam, all so much better. Also the challenges have been quite fun and well designed. And the leveling up and car collecting aspect is addictive as expected.

Completely agree.

Btw, I just tested out 720p vs 1080p and also tried Normal vs Flicker Reduction on both, and to my eyes, 720p on Normal mode or 1080p with Flicker Reduction looks best, but 720p looks much cleaner and has less tearing. I really wish PD would've just made it a 720p game, or at least make it default to 720p.

edit: nm, I can't really see a difference between Normal and Flicker Reduction now.

[AlStrong]

Moved a few res-discussion posts to the tech forum. Impressions/suggestions and the sort can stay here for the moment.

[dragonelite]

What i don't understand is why not outsource a big chunk of the standard cars.
Stuff like this shouldn't be in a 2010 game at all, at least make a finer selection of gt 4 cars. You still have the standard and premium select but instead of 800 gt 4 cars why not go for like 200 premium and 300~400 standard outsourced cars.
http://nsa19.casimages.com/img/2010/...6331951547.jpg

[Cornsnake]

The AI still hasn't improved much. I played one of the licence tests on Rome circuit. Hit any of the opponents or a wall and your disqualified. They are still happy to push you around as much as they like, getting me disqualified several times. I hope things improve when damage becomes involved.

[rabidrabbit]

Originally Posted by dragonelite

What i don't understand is why not outsource a big chunk of the standard cars.
Stuff like this shouldn't be in a 2010 game at all, at least make a finer selection of gt 4 cars. You still have the standard and premium select but instead of 800 gt 4 cars why not go for like 200 premium and 300~400 standard outsourced cars.
http://nsa19.casimages.com/img/2010/...6331951547.jpg

Huh I don't believe that's a standard car from GT5. At least I haven't encountered anything like that in GT5 yet, and I have been trying the standard cars.
The difference between standard and premium is recognisable, but that looks like a photoshop job!

[Cornsnake]

Does anyone how often the selection at the used car dealership changes? I was thinking about buying a GT40 that was available earlier today. But now that I can afford it it's gone.

For a game with over a 1000 cars it sure has a relatively small selection available at any given time.

[-tkf-]

Originally Posted by Pugger

First up, it has that bloody blurred look that I hate with PS3 games, I just can't fathom this. .

I totally agree with you, i can´t fanthom it either, i dont see the blurred mess and i am playing on a screen that is over 3 meters wide in 1080. I see a healthy use of DOF but i doubt that is your problem. Did you check your tv? your ps3? your eyes

[KKRT]

Originally Posted by Cornsnake

The AI still hasn't improved much. I played one of the licence tests on Rome circuit. Hit any of the opponents or a wall and your disqualified. They are still happy to push you around as much as they like, getting me disqualified several times. I hope things improve when damage becomes involved.

Keep in mind that You have to be careful too. Its not like AI always try to avoid You and slow down when is near to You. I made some additional tests in Arcade mode today and AI is really impressive. They see only what is in front of them [I had situation when two cars almost stopped to avoid me, but third didnt see me because of them, so he tried to overtake from right and hit me - also AI react faster to Your car when their on straight and slower when You're hide behind an uphill] and whats in their mirrors [AMG test made it clear, when slower AI move to right and flashes light to let You pass].
AI always try to avoid contact, but in other hand they still race and try to stay on track, so they wont stop only because You stopped. They racing AI is awesome, but they do have sometimes problems with anomalies, like standing behind high curve, because they dont have time to react.
They also block You sometimes from overtaking even if they miss fast curve line, because of it.
Someone on neogaf noticed that AI from B-Spec applies to A-Spec, so when You push car in front of You hard, they're getting 'hot' and because of that, AI has bigger chance to make mistakes [play B-Spec and You'll see how their mistakes looks like ;]

[corduroygt]

Originally Posted by Arwin

Are you playing on 1080p? The only track that I have any tearing on so far is London (playing using 720p). I hear that with 1080p you can get quite a bit more tearing.

And did anyone see the notice about the slowness in the menus being caused by online server overload? I totally called it.

I'm playing it on the default setting, which is 1080p. Tearing is omnipresent, but most noticable in city tracks. Shadows are bad as well.

It's very easy to see when the slowness is due to online, since you're waiting for a while without the hdd light flashing. Happened to me a few times. Other than that, they take about 5-6 seconds, with track loading taking 30 seconds.

[Shifty Geezer]

Originally Posted by rabidrabbit

Huh I don't believe that's a standard car from GT5. At least I haven't encountered anything like that in GT5 yet, and I have been trying the standard cars.
The difference between standard and premium is recognisable, but that looks like a photoshop job!

Yes, looks like someone messing about. Pixelated wheel arches, yet smooth wheels? From this point on it's probably worth qualifying images with sources. If you can't quote a reliable source, don't post the image.

I'll count posting of dubious, unqualified imagery as trolling from this point on.

[DonaldDuck]

The game is just unfocused.

From the technical perspective my thought is that they were aiming too high. It´s suicidal going not only for 1/3 more resolution than other products, but mixing rain, snow, effects, big amount of transparencies in-game (PRECISELY in PS3 that´s a bad choice), realistic damage and the proverbial quality of models in the franchise in the same package. It´s just going to death.

In addition to that it´s clear that the process of release has been very bad, almost no time to reviewers, on-line buggy in the crucial first week... the backslash of reviews is cruel, but inevitable I believe.

The point in this case is that content killed expectations of perfection. Probably the game is really well optimized , but the ultimate goal, considering the proud label of perfection of previous games, it´s not reachable.

Apart from that, I also suspect of some kind of rushing. There are bugs, just bugs. Graphical glitches. No demo with all features on in last months... just strange. TGS was the debut of clima.

I believe that the rain affaire is an afterthought that gone gold too early. The shadowing is correct in concept, profuse, but the resolution is uneven.

It´s curious that the game, in itself, is well developed, funny and deep. The events have soul, if you want.

What makes me absolutely fool is the poor level of some circuits. It´s just art direction that went wrong... We know the weak points of the system: memory and BW... and here we go with 1280x1080 and loads of transparencies.

The funny thing is that a reinforced Prologue, with sterile environments, just a bit of high res particle buffers (that in Prologue exceeded those offered in F3), 15 more circuits, no need for rain, dinamic lighting, touching the mark of 250-300 cars probably would have been better considered by reviewers.

It´s very ironic.

[dragonelite]

Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer

Yes, looks like someone messing about. Pixelated wheel arches, yet smooth wheels? From this point on it's probably worth qualifying images with sources. If you can't quote a reliable source, don't post the image.

I'll count posting of dubious, unqualified imagery as trolling from this point on.

Should have known better a lot of dirt is done with images on the both racing games.
Still think that the standard car should have been outsourced and the game should ship with 500 cars or something.
Even heard some cars aren't fully tuneable(if that even is a word?)

[macabre]

Originally Posted by Cornsnake

The AI still hasn't improved much. I played one of the licence tests on Rome circuit. Hit any of the opponents or a wall and your disqualified. They are still happy to push you around as much as they like, getting me disqualified several times. I hope things improve when damage becomes involved.

The AI for the license tests and some of the special event challenges is different to the open races, much more on rails . Its pretty consistent so you can learn their lines and finally finish the challenge.
Sometimes stupid things happen though, once I got dq`d because I hit a pylon that one of the other cars had pushed to the middle of the track.

[(((interference)))]

Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer

Yes, looks like someone messing about. Pixelated wheel arches, yet smooth wheels? From this point on it's probably worth qualifying images with sources. If you can't quote a reliable source, don't post the image.

I'll count posting of dubious, unqualified imagery as trolling from this point on.

Actually Shifty, Nebula posted this in the Game Tech thread, quite similar to that one:

Originally Posted by Nebula

The strange thing is it looks like parts of the car is not geometry but rather decals/sprites. You get these low-res sprite edge jaggies that wont go away with AA.

[inefficient]

Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer

Yes, looks like someone messing about. Pixelated wheel arches, yet smooth wheels? From this point on it's probably worth qualifying images with sources. If you can't quote a reliable source, don't post the image.

I'll count posting of dubious, unqualified imagery as trolling from this point on.

It pains me to say it but I think that shot is real. I would have said it was fake too before I actually played the game. I've seen cars at least as bad as that in the game itself. There are some atrocious car models that simply do not belong in this game. I think a lot of those crap cars made it in to keep compatibility with the PSP import feature they were advertising.

I wish there was a toggle-able options to ban all standard cars from entering your races. I am more than happy with the 200 some premium cars.

I'm still crossing my fingers hoping that this is somehow just some kind of terrible bug in this 1.1 version.

[Arwin]

Originally Posted by Cornsnake

Does anyone how often the selection at the used car dealership changes? I was thinking about buying a GT40 that was available earlier today. But now that I can afford it it's gone.

For a game with over a 1000 cars it sure has a relatively small selection available at any given time.

Typically changes each time you do something (most races and events. I think you can see somewhere that a day passes, and then in GT PSP it changed every other day, not sure yet here)

[Gitaroo]

seems like Sony should buy bizarre creation from activision and get them to redo the standard cars models and tracks. I remember reading that PD only had around 60+ ppl in their studio, and wasnt until last year that they increased the staffs to 100+. Anyone know how big turn 10 is?

[Arwin]

Originally Posted by Gitaroo

seems like Sony should buy bizarre creation from activision and get them to redo the standard cars models and tracks. I remember reading that PD only had around 60+ ppl in their studio, and wasnt until last year that they increased the staffs to 100+. Anyone know how big turn 10 is?

No, but Turn 10 outsourced their cockpits, for instance.

Also, if you take the time to look at both games, there's rather a big difference in terms of content. Forza 3 is basically an efficient database with a clever race generator. Very nicely done, but extremely minimalistic and straightforward. There is just a tonne more stuff to do in GT5. That's not to say that GT couldn't have learnt from Forza's approach more obviously, but I know which of these two games is going to have me playing longer. I mean, just look at the Nurburgring alone - I can play it sunny, cloudy, day night change, variable weather, etc. And the variation ... the quality of the NASCAR alone is worthy of a standalone title, karting is awesome, rally is great, etc.

[ultragpu]

I love all the City tracks in this game as they are very beautiful to look at and nicely detailed especially with GT5's lighting. Night time racing also looked very good with all those lights and reflecting on the car, the rain level was very awesome through the cockpit view, and wow at that interior detail! The cars, premium at least gave me goosebumps a times on how realistic they look, which is why they are out of place with some of the lesser tracks in this game. I honestly hope PD would scrap half of their standard cars and work more on the lesser tracks so consistency can be maintained. I mean who would drive those standard ones if those pictures floating around are true.

[ultragpu]

Originally Posted by Arwin

No, but Turn 10 outsourced their cockpits, for instance.

Man the interior of GT5 compared to Forza 3 is a like a world of difference in detail, textures and self shadowing.

[KKRT]

Originally Posted by Gitaroo

seems like Sony should buy bizarre creation from activision and get them to redo the standard cars models and tracks. I remember reading that PD only had around 60+ ppl in their studio, and wasnt until last year that they increased the staffs to 100+. Anyone know how big turn 10 is?

Polyphony had 50-60 developers after GT 4, and 1-1.5 year they increased stuff to about 100. In peaks PD had 140 employees during GT 5 development.

Turn 10 had 250-300 developers when producing FM 2 and 300-350 when producing FM 3.
Unfortunately dont have bookmarks for those ;\ But i'm sure there was blog post and forum post on Turn 10 site.

[patsu]

Originally Posted by inefficient

It pains me to say it but I think that shot is real. I would have said it was fake too before I actually played the game. I've seen cars at least as bad as that in the game itself. There are some atrocious car models that simply do not belong in this game. I think a lot of those crap cars made it in to keep compatibility with the PSP import feature they were advertising.

I wish there was a toggle-able options to ban all standard cars from entering your races. I am more than happy with the 200 some premium cars.

I'm still crossing my fingers hoping that this is somehow just some kind of terrible bug in this 1.1 version.

Are you saying those jaggy cars come from the PSP models ? If so, why can't they keep the high res models online or on a 50Gb BR disc ?

I heard there is a typo in the game (A-Spec vs B-spec). All these still sound like the GT5 scope is too big. I really hope they continue to improve the game. It looks like a sizable chunk of work.

Other studios will focus on specific areas to supersede GT5. At this point, it looks like PD will need to pick their own focus and expand on it (Probably premium cars, weather, and tracks on top of their physics engine). People seem extremely happy with the physics.

Then build a secondary fan service to maintain the extended content (PSP imported cars, Karting, ...). I'd keep the stunt car stuff out until they have spit-shined the core experiences.

EDIT: Regarding the RPG progression, would love it if I can do quick races without grinding. I don't need trophies or leaderboard or points. I have nothing to prove or show ^_^.

[(((interference)))]

Originally Posted by KKRT

Polyphony had 50-60 developers after GT 4, and 1-1.5 year they increased stuff to about 100. In peaks PD had 140 employees during GT 5 development.

Turn 10 had 250-300 ppl developers when producing FM 2 and 300-350 when producing FM 3.
Unfortunately dont have bookmarks for those ;\ But i'm sure there was blog post and forum post on Turn 10 site.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/featur...3_and_the_.php

So, we had, I think about 24 full-time employees on Forza 1. And we then bolstered that staff with probably 70 contract staff that were on for most of the project -- a couple of years. And then we outsourced a lot of our artwork to a group in India and a group in Vietnam. That made it so that all-in, we were probably 200 people, that's my guess.

Then in Forza 2, we got up to about 250. We increased our [full-time] staff, increased our [contract] staff, and increased the number of people in India and Vietnam. And now, for Forza 3, we're just over 300, all-in, with again [contract], [full-time], and a fully-burdened outsource group. And that's been pretty much since the beginning.

We grew immediately, so as soon as we shipped Forza 2, all of the [full-timers] took some time off, the [contract staff] kind of went away for a little bit, we disengaged with our outsourcers, and then within three months, we were back fully-burdened. We were up about 200 people, and 300 within a few months after that.

[patsu]

More info on GT5 online fixes...
http://www.next-gen.biz/news/gran-tu...-online-issues

“Yesterday the online service was kind of in a critical state," he said. “The data centre was set up to handle 500,000 connections but the number of connections we received greatly exceeded that amount and there was a high chance of experiencing problems as a result.”

...

Yamauchi detailed some of the measures being taken to resolve the situation: "The design of the GT game really integrates the online and offline parts. So the problems online actually affected the offline play as well. Right now we've changed the number of simultaneous connections that are possible to one million, doubling the number, and we're trying to gauge what will happen, but we don't know at this point in time." *

Source:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...d-for-saturday

An update for gargantuan simulation racer Gran Turismo 5 will be released on Saturday 27th November, creator Kazunori Yamauchi has confirmed to Eurogamer in a new interview.

"We received a lot of demands for having more regulations placed on the online play. We're going to perform an update on the 27th that will include things like max power restrictions and weight restrictions," Yamauchi said.

[-tkf-]

Originally Posted by patsu

More info on GT5 online fixes...
http://www.next-gen.biz/news/gran-tu...-online-issues



Source:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...d-for-saturday

That is pretty bad, they know how many PS3´s are connected to the net, they should expect to sell many copies. Then with a little simple math come up with a figure on how many that would connect to the servers.