[eastmen]

Shadow , bluray was not the reason the ps3 wasn't hacked. As I've said dumps of games have been avalible since the first months of the console's release. Bluray movies were also hacked.

It was the os and the systems built into the actual console that stoped it form being hacked for so long. Bluray was the weak link in it. You can't get the ps3 to read dumps of bluray games not because of bluray but because of security built into the ps3 , not built into blurays (which btw i can now have my ps3 run dumps to bluray.)

One way around flash being so easy to replicate. Use a custom form factor and connector type for the flash. If you make it small like a micro sd card then there wont be any copying going on. Look at the ds , the ds cart is as large as an sd card. What made it possible to hack was micro sd. You wouldn't be able to hack it with sd or mini sd.

[Npl]

Originally Posted by eastmen

Shadow , bluray was not the reason the ps3 wasn't hacked. As I've said dumps of games have been avalible since the first months of the console's release. Bluray movies were also hacked.

It was the os and the systems built into the actual console that stoped it form being hacked for so long. Bluray was the weak link in it. You can't get the ps3 to read dumps of bluray games not because of bluray but because of security built into the ps3 , not built into blurays (which btw i can now have my ps3 run dumps to bluray.)

if make 1:1 copies of Blurays 1:1 then you dont even need to hack the PS3. The reason you cant do that is because burners wont do 1:1 copies and pressing them yourself is not feasible.

With flash-media and a bit of electronics its way easier to replicate them. using a DS-Cart you will be able to play the media you perfectly be able to replicate, with any current and future DS-Console. Without any modification to the console.

Now try loading Isos in PSP3000 or new PS3s. Even if eg. XBox360 seems to be a losing battle, there still is alot inconvenience involved. With those flash-carts pirates are indistinguishable from regular users.

Originally Posted by eastmen

One way around flash being so easy to replicate. Use a custom form factor and connector type for the flash. If you make it small like a micro sd card then there wont be any copying going on. Look at the ds, the ds cart is as large as an sd card. What made it possible to hack was micro sd. You wouldn't be able to hack it with sd or mini sd.

So then you get a small adapter with a cable leading to the real flash cart.
But anyway you do it, you have to stay away from just using a consumer-solution like micro-sd, which practically drives up you costs since you suddenly cant use the insane volumes that those consumer-solutions have. If you are a bit less concerned about security it will need some (quite alot) technical measures to ensure you cant just "electrically emulate" original carts.

The hack-ability of consoles is also a concern, but unrelated to that.
Flash-carts are an additional issue - you just need to emulate the electrical contacts so to speak and you just need 1 cart for as many games as you want.
replicating optical media is not feasible until you got big plants.

[ShadowRunner]

Originally Posted by eastmen

Shadow , bluray was not the reason the ps3 wasn't hacked. As I've said dumps of games have been avalible since the first months of the console's release. Bluray movies were also hacked.

It was the os and the systems built into the actual console that stoped it form being hacked for so long. Bluray was the weak link in it. You can't get the ps3 to read dumps of bluray games not because of bluray but because of security built into the ps3 , not built into blurays (which btw i can now have my ps3 run dumps to bluray.)

One way around flash being so easy to replicate. Use a custom form factor and connector type for the flash. If you make it small like a micro sd card then there wont be any copying going on. Look at the ds , the ds cart is as large as an sd card. What made it possible to hack was micro sd. You wouldn't be able to hack it with sd or mini sd.

No, at a fundamental level the bluray drive and its firmware is able to detect wether the disk is an original pressed disk or not. There is no way to make a replica of an original disk that will be read as if it were genuine, this difference between original and copy (and being able to detect it) is part of the bluray protection scheme. The dumps that have been available have been useless precisely because of this protection.

The distinction between this and what was traditionally the case with flash is that replicas can be made of flash carts that are seen as by the device as genuine.

How on earth do you come to the conclusion that the DS can only be hacked by microSD? it was used for convenience, there is no need for a replica to use removeable flash storage at all. If DS used microSD sized cards then the replicas would just be reflashable versions of these, the only thing you get from going to smaller size is less potential storage so instead of storring 100 games on a card you store 10, which would then grow again when reduction in transistor sizes allow more storage for a given amount of space.

Its possible flash could be made more secure with an additional security chip, at increased cost. Im not saying that flash is out of the window, just that at the moment it is too easily replicated and work needs to be done to make it as secure againsts unauthorized replication as other media.

[ShadowRunner]

Originally Posted by Npl

Even if eg. XBox360 seems to be a losing battle, there still is alot inconvenience involved. With those flash-carts pirates are indistinguishable from regular users.

360 is a good example of the destinction of media that can be fully replicated or not.

The optical drive in th 360 must be hacked in order to read burned disks. The system must already be vulnerable from the inside and any defences must have been breached. Only then will the disks be read. The system software needs to be hacked first.

Flash would be a akin to not having to hack the 360, not find any vulnerabilitys or breach any defences, just burn the disk and it would be seen exactly as an original. The system software does not need to be hacked or compimised in any way.

This is the difference we are talking about.

[NeoTechni]

How on earth do you come to the conclusion that the DS can only be hacked by microSD?

I've seen compact flash cards for DS, I use a full sized SD card. And I have a GBA flash cart that also works.

[eastmen]

Originally Posted by ShadowRunner

No, at a fundamental level the bluray drive and its firmware is able to detect wether the disk is an original pressed disk or not. There is no way to make a replica of an original disk that will be read as if it were genuine, this difference between original and copy (and being able to detect it) is part of the bluray protection scheme. The dumps that have been available have been useless precisely because of this protection.

The distinction between this and what was traditionally the case with flash is that replicas can be made of flash carts that are seen as by the device as genuine.

How on earth do you come to the conclusion that the DS can only be hacked by microSD? it was used for convenience, there is no need for a replica to use removeable flash storage at all. If DS used microSD sized cards then the replicas would just be reflashable versions of these, the only thing you get from going to smaller size is less potential storage so instead of storring 100 games on a card you store 10, which would then grow again when reduction in transistor sizes allow more storage for a given amount of space.

Its possible flash could be made more secure with an additional security chip, at increased cost. Im not saying that flash is out of the window, just that at the moment it is too easily replicated and work needs to be done to make it as secure againsts unauthorized replication as other media.

but your arguement works against you because the ds's carts have never been replicated either. They have to use additional hardware to trick the ds into reading a micro sd. Just like on the ps3 your using software to trick the ps3 into playing games on your hardrive and your tricking the ps3 into ripping back ups of bluray discs to the game.


I really see nothing diffrent in the way these things are aproached and I see optical media as being no safer than flash.

As for the ds , i'm talking about what fits within the standard cart size without additional hardware. i'm sure someone can make a ds cart that goes into the ds and attaches to a hardrive that has the roms on it. But its not practical from a portability side.

The fact of the matter is that optical did not make the psp un hackable infact it fell faster than the ds.

[ShadowRunner]

The point is that the DS sees the media as original without any modification to the system itself. No backdoor is needed, no loopholes uncovered. Like i said the flash carts are akin to being able to burn discs that are seen exactly the same as the original. Can you honestly say that there is no difference between a PS3 that can read buned disks without any modification and one that cant? The one that cant is obviously more secure, there is little to dispute that.

You may not see a difference, but you would be wrong. There is a difference between media that can be made to appear as an original and media that cannot, this is fact.

The fact a machine is hacked regardless of the media format doesnt make a secure media format any less important. Do you suggest everything is left unsecure just because the system will be hacked somehow anyway? its about mitigating risk from many different angles. PS3s security system did not make it unhackable, but do we now say that having any form of security in place is a waste of time? Your logic falls flat at every turn.

[tongue_of_colicab]

No its not. You can't copy a DS cart, you need a flash card, which has all the additional hardware and software on it to trick the DS intro accepting the flash card so it's nowhere near being the same as just burning a disk.

[Arwin]

Originally Posted by tongue_of_colicab

No its not. You can't copy a DS cart, you need a flash card, which has all the additional hardware and software on it to trick the DS intro accepting the flash card so it's nowhere near being the same as just burning a disk.

Once you've done it though it's much easier to feed it new games. I do think that if the PSP had UMD only and no support for flash storage, it would have been pretty tough to hack. You can't burn UMD discs, and you'd basically have to solder in some kind of flash storage and make the PSP think that was the UMD drive instead, or something like it.

I haven't been keeping track - has the PSP Go been hacked?

[corduroygt]

Unlike spinning disks, cards can be made into adapters where you can plug smaller cards into them, and that's how the DS is hacked. It's actual physical security to use a spinning disc

I think the only viable way to prevent piracy is to sell an online activation/deactivation code with every game you sell...then the cards could be replicated as much as you want...You can use free 3G like in the kindle to ensure everyone can get online to activate/deactivate their games. You cannot have free lifetime 3G in a DD only device that downloads gigabytes, but just for activation, very little data is used and it's possible.

[ShadowRunner]

Originally Posted by tongue_of_colicab

No its not. You can't copy a DS cart, you need a flash card, which has all the additional hardware and software on it to trick the DS intro accepting the flash card so it's nowhere near being the same as just burning a disk.

What it is doing is emulating an original cart. This is possible with flash as we have seen. It is not possible to emulate an original with optical media without a disk pressing facility. Thus we have a media format that can be emulated to look exactly the same as an original to the host device, and one that cannot without hugely expensive equipment.

[NeoTechni]

Originally Posted by Arwin

I haven't been keeping track - has the PSP Go been hacked?

Yes and no.

Usermode was hacked so we have homebrew
Kernel mode was not hacked so we have no ISOs, and thus Go is still nigh useless for the majority of PSP users

[draconian]

weren't there rumors that the psp2 would have a touch screen on the reverse side? Here how something like that might work

[patsu]

I have not tried it personally but it looks awkward to use. Anyone tested it yet ?

[Xenus]

It seems like one of those things that would be incredibly frustrating to use until you adjusted to it but really nice once you got used to it as you would not have the issue of whatever you are using on the touchscreen getting in the way of your view.

[-tkf-]

Originally Posted by NeoTechni

Yes and no.

Usermode was hacked so we have homebrew
Kernel mode was not hacked so we have no ISOs, and thus Go is still nigh useless for the majority of PSP users

Sounds like the perfect hack, no illegal coppies but homebrew..

[NeoTechni]

Originally Posted by -tkf-

Sounds like the perfect hack, no illegal coppies but homebrew..

Its by far not perfect. A lot of homebrew cant run in user mode.

For some reason beyond my understanding, some syscalls have to be emulated. Meaning some homebrew that uses Sony's API doesnt work. The SegaCD emulator didnt have sound up until recently, and others run slower.

I'd also like to use the games I own on my Go. Till then it's a glorified demo machine.

[Toaddio]

Originally Posted by NeoTechni

I'd also like to use the games I own on my Go. Till then it's a glorified demo machine.

Either that or you're a glorified pirate. :shrugs:

[NeoTechni]

Originally Posted by Toaddio

Either that or you're a glorified pirate. :shrugs:

I can provide evidence of the games in my IGN collection. Hell I have the receipts for most of them.

The PSP game I made myself requires kernel mode.

[liolio]

Has this been reported already?

[NeoTechni]

I cant imagine a control scheme that has you shifting your grip in the part where you're supporting the most weight, being very stable.

[Xenus]

It's not that hard to imagine pick up a book and move a finger along the back of it. It's really simpler and more intuitive then I'd thought it be. My only worry is if the go for the full reverse touch screen idea is how to know where your finger is without interacting with the screen first and range of motion since you can't exactly run the same finger along the entire back of it without switching grips.

[Brad Grenz]

Yeah, you're generally supporting the weight with your palms and your fingers are pretty free to touch a wide area comfortably. I also think most people have a better sense of where they're pressing blindly than they might realize, though Sony could also have some method of sensing and displaying where your fingers are. A cursor or phantom finger outline or something.

[Arwin]

Originally Posted by Brad Grenz

A cursor or phantom finger outline or something.

Yeah, that's typically what would be used (looking at other implementations and proofs of concept for this tech). I think it could work, though I'm interested in seeing whether or not they'll end up doing both back and front, as that could be even better. I can see that just doing the back though could allow for an amazing screen while keeping costs really low.

[NeoTechni]

Originally Posted by Brad Grenz

Yeah, you're generally supporting the weight with your palms l.

your palms general support nothing considering how close to the edge the controls are
its a psp not a dual shock