[phenix]

I was a fan of the first Dungeon Siege game although never played the second one. Apparently the franchise was bought by Square Enix and third game is being developed by Obsidian, which I am a fan of too. Will be interesting IMO. The game will be coming to Xbox360/PS3 and probably to PC in 2011.

There are screenshots and trailers from GameCon 2010 but I couldn't put the link properly.

[BoardBonobo]

I've played both and I thought that the first one was a million times better than the second one. The story and gaming interaction were poor in the follow up and the gfx had lost that ethereal\soft shadow effect.

If number three is anything like number one then I'm sold. If it's like number two then it's like a number two...

[phenix]

IGN preview/developer interview

http://pc.ign.com/articles/110/1108572p1.html

[Shifty Geezer]

In summary - it's an RPG with loot and levelling. We'll go into specifics at a later date.

[dragonelite]

Old footage now but not posted in here..
Still kinda interested in this always wanted a diablo loot kind of game.
Dont know im kinda getting fps fatigue so im exploring other genres now.

[phenix]

Looking good. Hope it won't turn out to be a buggy and unfinished game like other Obsidian developed games.

[Shifty Geezer]

Does indeed loko good. The previous Dungeon Siege's weren't that attractive visually, but this is looking very fine with draw distance and smooth framerate. If the multiplayer is good (don't like henchman coop, want proper cooperative characters with full progression) then it's a certified purchase.

[RenegadeRocks]

I think it'll get its share of players, as Diablo iii on consoles is still a dream. People on consoles would want something to fullfill their curosity when Diablo3 comes out.

BTW, any info on whether tye videos and screens around are from the PC or console versions?

[Shifty Geezer]

Originally Posted by RenegadeRocks

I think it'll get its share of players, as Diablo iii on consoles is still a dream. People on consoles would want something to fullfill their curosity when Diablo3 comes out.

I think it's PC players only who think Diablo owns this genre and console owners can only hope for the scraps of RPG offcuts! Since BGDA on PS2, this genre has done very well on console, providing better games IMO as they are more involving than the disconnected point-and-click interfaces of PC RPGs. Suffice to say this game would do just as well or badly without the existence of Diablo III, selling on its own merits.

BTW, any info on whether tye videos and screens around are from the PC or console versions?

The gameplay vids I've seen are using a 360 controller, although that's not 100% conclusive.

[dragonelite]

Depends on the class and gameplay i mean putting down traps and AOE attacks perhaps can be kinda annoying. Dont know how other console rpg solved this, i imaging using the right stick to drop the trap or aoe in the area restrictions.

[Arwin]

Originally Posted by dragonelite

Depends on the class and gameplay i mean putting down traps and AOE attacks perhaps can be kinda annoying. Dont know how other console rpg solved this, i imaging using the right stick to drop the trap or aoe in the area restrictions.

Which is why Move support would be nice I suppose...

[BoardBonobo]

Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer

Does indeed loko good. The previous Dungeon Siege's weren't that attractive visually...

I always thought that the first one was a very pretty game for its time. Actually put some DX8 hardware to work.

[Silent_Buddha]

Aye the first one was fantastic graphically. The character models weren't the greatest, but then character models in many 3D top down games weren't exactly all that good at the time.

What was fantastic for the first Dungeon Siege was the absolutely huge verticalness of the geography and the amount of vegetation that was displayed. Terrain and vegetation were fantastically done compared to games of that same time frame. Maps were also quite large for the time. And in the RPG genre itself they were head and shoulders above other RPGs in the 3D arena.

Regards,
SB

[Shifty Geezer]

Originally Posted by dragonelite

Depends on the class and gameplay i mean putting down traps and AOE attacks perhaps can be kinda annoying. Dont know how other console rpg solved this, i imaging using the right stick to drop the trap or aoe in the area restrictions.

Traps are dopped at you feet typically. AOE spells either travel outwards, or appear over the monster you're pointing at. Perhaps not ideal where clicking where you want them is, but the direct attack and block and move control makes for a much more involving game for me. Plus I absolutely HATE the point-to-position of PC RPGs as the screen keeps moving. You have to track where you want to go/hit. I played the Torchlight demo, and would try to hit a creature but would miss by a smidge and my character would end up running off, getting hit in the back! Very frustrating.

[dragonelite]

Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer

Traps are dopped at you feet typically. AOE spells either travel outwards, or appear over the monster you're pointing at. Perhaps not ideal where clicking where you want them is, but the direct attack and block and move control makes for a much more involving game for me. Plus I absolutely HATE the point-to-position of PC RPGs as the screen keeps moving. You have to track where you want to go/hit. I played the Torchlight demo, and would try to hit a creature but would miss by a smidge and my character would end up running off, getting hit in the back! Very frustrating.

Made a post on a other forum on how you could have a lot skill binds, more then enough binds for spells then most classes on pc every have to handle. But it would take a bit of organizing of the player and a bit of brain storage to memorize the locations.

A normal controller has 8 action buttons you can access fast on the 360 they are X,Y,B,A,LB,RB,LT,RT so you can quickly access 8 skills.
You probably need a auto target(autofacing in wow if i remember it right)
system for enemies and friends. I believe guildwars only used to let you have 8 keybinds.

As in wow you have button set you could
make. Like set 1 had all the warrior fury skill and set 2 had all the def stance skills. You could use the dpad the shuffle through those set or do it differently and make a set wheel like the action/weapon wheel in mass effect. But you can give the set their own name for better organizing stuff.
This leaves the dpad free to bind potion and other consumables to it.

So it's not really the restriction of the controller i think the devs are afraid of but more the capabilities of the users.

[Shifty Geezer]

Console action games have had shift-key modifiers for a while now. eg. Use LT as a shift button allowing 8 different actions on the face buttons (A,B,X,Y, LT+A, LT+B, LT+X, LT+Y). CON on PS2 had a compass selector, shift-key and one of 8 directions to select, with spells mapable to quick key. You could do that with two compasses, like one for attack and one for defense, for 16 skills readily accessible. So really, access to skills isn't a problem or reason to favour the PC.

As there's actually a plethora of these hack-n-slash titles coming out, it looks like devs have noticed there's an untapped market, that they don't have to limit themselves to PC, and now they're all in a crowded market that has remained practically untouched for 4 years!

[ban25]

Originally Posted by Silent_Buddha

What was fantastic for the first Dungeon Siege was the absolutely huge verticalness of the geography and the amount of vegetation that was displayed. Terrain and vegetation were fantastically done compared to games of that same time frame. Maps were also quite large for the time. And in the RPG genre itself they were head and shoulders above other RPGs in the 3D arena.

There's a tower in the multiplayer map in the first game which must be 20 stories tall, and it has archers shooting out of the windows on every floor. That was amazing!

[ban25]

Originally Posted by ban25

There's a tower in the multiplayer map in the first game which must be 20 stories tall, and it has archers shooting out of the windows on every floor. That was amazing!

BTW, Scot Bilas had a good paper about the world streaming system in DS some years ago. Out of date at this point, but still a great read:

http://scottbilas.com/games/dungeon-siege/

[Shifty Geezer]

The streaming was very good, creating a seamless journey. The lighting and particles weren't a patch on Snowblind Studio's engine though. The latest vids show a very capable, balanced engine providing that gorgeous look from lighting and detail.

[Silent_Buddha]

Lighting and particles were a strong point of the PS2 weren't they?

And yes, those weren't a focus on Dungeon Siege, although I seem to remember at least dynamic lighting on DS, but that could just be fond memories as it's been well over 6 years since I last played it.

Regards,
SB

[Shifty Geezer]

Originally Posted by Silent_Buddha

Lighting and particles were a strong point of the PS2 weren't they?

Particles were. Lighting wasn't normally, but BGDA managed 2 dynamic shadows per object, with no pixelation because they were stencil shadows and not shadow maps.

But this is all a matter of aesthetics anyway, and not a technology competition. A game doesn't look good just because it ahs some features or not. BGDA looked beautiful. Coming off that, DS was pretty bland with visibly lower poly models, less smooth framerate, less sophistiaced shadowing and lighting, etc. The only effect I remember appreciating was the transparent foreground objects, meaning you could walk into a house and see inside. That was cool. Otherwise it didn't have much to make it look attractive, especially compared to incredible achievements of BGDA on PS2. I also remember DS2 looking less attractive than the improved Snowblind Engine in CON.

Unlike previous DS games that lacked artistic flair and visual appeal, this one is covering everything from the looks of it.

[Silent_Buddha]

Well, with Aesthetics it's going to come down to personal tastes quite a bit.

For myself I don't find BGDA all that compelling compared to Dungeon Siege. Mostly because of the very small and limited view area, relatively barren scenes, small levels, etc. I'll admit character models were definitely well done, but it completely fell apart when it came to the world and surroundings, IMO.

Dungeon Siege actually brought about a world that felt somewhat alive (at least more so than pretty much any other 3D rendered game up to that point) with expansive levels, absolutely claustrophic vegetation at times, huge verticality (first time seeing a waterfall pouring into a gorge had me just sitting there panning the camera, and moving around to see it from all angles), etc. And I really don't remember the lighting appearing significantly worse, though it may have indeed be technically worse.

I'm thinking this is just a point where our artistic tastes diverge a bit. As I feel, other than character models, DS had more artistic flair and visual appeal than BGDA.

All that said, I actually like BGDA more due to the more engaging gameplay, although its extremely limited view was hugely frustrating. To put it into perspective, I can remember the gameplay of BGDA as if I played it yesterday, but virtually nothing of it's graphics (I had to boot it up just now to see). While it's the exact opposite when it comes to DS. Forgetable gameplay but absolutely incredible visuals for the time, all IMO of course.

Regards,
SB

[Shifty Geezer]

Originally Posted by Silent_Buddha

Well, with Aesthetics it's going to come down to personal tastes quite a bit.

I think that's true, for me, I'd rather have a small area very well done, than spread resources too thin. The lighting and particles made a huge difference to BGDA, with resources being more focussed. Big expanses of fairly uniform graphics, even if creating a fabulous scene, don't float my boat so much.

I've very much missed the particle and lighting effects of the PS2 titles this gen. DS3 is looking very nice in that regards, spanning both our tastes! I just hope they nail the gameplay. As you say, BGDA's game experience is very memorable. so few games have managed to reproduce it in the same way. Too many are PC ports, like Sacred 2, where the gamepaly just isn't as tight an involving. Considering how the hardware has improved, it seems odd that the gameplay has more often than not taken a step backwards from last gen.

[ban25]

I love the original DS, but the gameplay was all about building a large party (8 characters, or 7 and a mule). So far, I haven't seen more than one AI controlled henchman in DSIII, so that's a bit of a concern. Doesn't mean I won't like the game, of course, just that it bears more similarity to Diablo and BGDA than Dungeon Siege.

[ban25]

When I play DS these days, there are a number of mods I like to use:

Dark Elves & Light Elves 3.0
http://lisa.siegenetwork.com/elves/

Dungeon Siege Revived
http://www.star-tac.net/ikkyo/revived_beta/revived.html

Legends of Ultrae
http://www.siegenetwork.com/q?dir=Do...eq=file&id=385

See Far LoA
http://www.siegenetwork.com/q?dir=Do...eq=file&id=413

You can run with all of these mods together and get several new playable races, new weapons, substantially improved UI, much higher draw distance (hard to play without the See Far mod due to all the fog), and an entirely new single player quest for the MP map. Good times!