[Shifty Geezer]

Originally Posted by KKRT

Flow in LBP 2
http://ps3.nowgamer.com/video/play/1216/lbp-2-beta-flow
Simply amazing.

That is amazing! I wonder if it's using nested emmitters, something LBP1 had trouble with?

Originally Posted by tha_con

I'm also interested to know what the "bugs" are, specifically.

Oh, please. Bugs, in quotion marks, because we've got no idea what bugs are and they're actually intended design features.

Putting down objects with bolts on them binds them to objects behind and they can't be separated.
2D camera has corrupted graphics.
2D camera zooms out to the whole level at start of play so you can't see anything.
Collision geometry not being destroyed when the visible geometry is destroyed, so you run into invisible objects.
Changing your sackbot's costume causes the PS3 to freeze requiring a reset.
Even a design issue with one level where if you die, the respawn gate has no Grabbinator so you can't get past a a hazard and have to restart the level.

And yes, SB spontaneously jumping a quarter of a second after landing in low-G levels is a bug.

[Shifty Geezer]

Delay confirmed until January. TBH that's probably good for me. This game can be a huge time-sink and I'll probably have less demands by then and more room to fit it in comfortably without something else giving way. Missing Christmas is a blow though.

[Billy Idol]

Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer

Delay confirmed until January.

Booo! (and I do not mean Booo...urns)

Missing Christmas Sales with such a game (not a shooter->parents will buy) could be painful for MM

[Mr. Domino]

Bummer, but at least Sony chooses quality over sales.

[Billy Idol]

It is sad, because we have to wait to see such things here:

http://ps3.nowgamer.com/video/play/1...ars-a-new-hope

[cthellis42]

I'm not sure if I'm more disappointed that I won't be able to play it, or that I lost a really easy holiday gift for my nephew.

[tha_con]

Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer

Oh, please. Bugs, in quotion marks, because we've got no idea what bugs are and they're actually intended design features.

Putting down objects with bolts on them binds them to objects behind and they can't be separated.
2D camera has corrupted graphics.
2D camera zooms out to the whole level at start of play so you can't see anything.
Collision geometry not being destroyed when the visible geometry is destroyed, so you run into invisible objects.
Changing your sackbot's costume causes the PS3 to freeze requiring a reset.
Even a design issue with one level where if you die, the respawn gate has no Grabbinator so you can't get past a a hazard and have to restart the level.

And yes, SB spontaneously jumping a quarter of a second after landing in low-G levels is a bug.

The bugs were in quotes because I didn't know if you were talking about physics issues, or actual performance issues, which there clearly seems to be.

For the jump, does it happen instantly after for a quarter of a second, or is it a quarter of a second after he landed?

[goonergaz]

what is a bit surprising is that this isn't something they can launch and work on patches for - everyone surely understands LBP2 will have some bugs...it's inevitable on such an open product

[Shifty Geezer]

Originally Posted by tha_con

The bugs were in quotes because I didn't know if you were talking about physics issues, or actual performance issues, which there clearly seems to be.

I wouldn't generally call physics issues bugs, except stuff like the self-destroying geometry which still exists.

For the jump, does it happen instantly after for a quarter of a second, or is it a quarter of a second after he landed?

In zero G, press the jump button, and then put the control down. SB leaps about...40" into the air, if he's 4" high. He falls gently to earth and lands, and stands still. A quarter of a second of standing still later he jumps a good 4" up again. This time delay and jump height of the second jump decreases with increasing gravity, suggesting this second jump is always present. If so, and SB always leaves the ground after landing, that'd explain some control issues, but I've decided that isn't happening; at least the second jump isn't causing SB to leave the ground so pressing jump fails. Small jumps seem to be properly inertia based in normal gravity.

Originally Posted by goonergaz

what is a bit surprising is that this isn't something they can launch and work on patches for - everyone surely understands LBP2 will have some bugs...it's inevitable on such an open product

You have one shot at attracting casual creators. If they find like I did that putting a skateboard in their level, it binds itself to the background, and then when they try to remove the skateboard the whole level disappears, they won't be interested in trying further! I don't think releasing known serious bugs is ever a real option, although it's too common place these days. Before online updates, console games had better QA and just plain worked on the whole. Now the experience is growing ever closer to the PC experience that console ownership is supposed to avoid, with games not working out of the box and owners waiting for bug-fixes, some of which never arrive. It's a sorry state of affairs, and I applaud developers and publishers who choose a quality of product. Also in Sony's case, this is a flagship title where compromise is less of an option than some cheap, fairly niche 3rd party title.

[patsu]

Good. They can expand the beta if they want to let more people experience LBP2. Don't release buggy games to the consumers at large. Not everyone can stomach software issues, especially new customers.

[Arwin]

Maybe all PS3s sold before LBP2 is out can get a free copy of LBP1?

[wco81]

Hmm, may have to switch my preorder to FIFA11 then.

[Archgamer]

Horrible news. This means the game will not perform better then the first game. Sony and MM will lose a ton of potential money.

[Billy Idol]

Originally Posted by Archgamer

Horrible news. This means the game will not perform better then the first game. Sony and MM will lose a ton of potential money.

Yeah, they had bad luck with LBP1 release as well (this crazy islam song debate iirc)

[goonergaz]

Originally Posted by Shifty Geezer

You have one shot at attracting casual creators. If they find like I did that putting a skateboard in their level, it binds itself to the background, and then when they try to remove the skateboard the whole level disappears, they won't be interested in trying further! I don't think releasing known serious bugs is ever a real option, although it's too common place these days. Before online updates, console games had better QA and just plain worked on the whole.

I know what you're saying, but the game is still 6/7 weeks from launch so my thoughts are that they'd have a patch ready for launch. I know it's not ideal, but I'm also fairly certain most people who makes levels will be online.

I do find it odd that such an error wasn't picked up earlier?

[Cornsnake]

Noooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

That leaves just 2 must buys for me this year. Versus 10 or so early next year, half of which who were originally set for release this year.

Yeah there are some bugs that cause the beta to crash, but most of it is just small issues that only happen in create mode. I was expecting business as usual. Fix the big problems, smaller problems as much as you can, disable stuff that you can't fix and patch it back in later. You know, like LBP1.

Kudo's to them for choosing to do it the right way. But why didn't this happen before? I know MAG could have hugely benefited from a month of extra development time.

Anyway, I hope this also give them enough time include many of the better suggestions the beta testers have been making. The beta forums are very active when it comes to reporting bugs and suggesting improvements to the game.

[Deviousb33r]

LittleBigPlanet 2 Engine Face-Off

[patsu]

Originally Posted by Cornsnake

Noooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

That leaves just 2 must buys for me this year. Versus 10 or so early next year, half of which who were originally set for release this year.

Yeah there are some bugs that cause the beta to crash, but most of it is just small issues that only happen in create mode. I was expecting business as usual. Fix the big problems, smaller problems as much as you can, disable stuff that you can't fix and patch it back in later. You know, like LBP1.

Kudo's to them for choosing to do it the right way. But why didn't this happen before? I know MAG could have hugely benefited from a month of extra development time.

Anyway, I hope this also give them enough time include many of the better suggestions the beta testers have been making. The beta forums are very active when it comes to reporting bugs and suggesting improvements to the game.

What's coming out early next year ?

[bystander]

I wonder if anyone will remake this game in LBP2...



I have a feeling however this might be too challenging even for LBP2 to pull off:

[KKRT]

What's coming out early next year ?

Killzone, Crysis, Socom, Dragon Age, Witcher and Motorstorm i think [but could be wrong]

[Cornsnake]

Originally Posted by patsu

What's coming out early next year ?

Mass Effect 2.
Portal 2.
Bulletstorm.
Killzone 2.
Crysis 2.
Deus Ex 3.
Dragon Age 2.
Red Faction Armageddon.
Socom 4.
And now LBP 2.

I'll probably buy all of those unless they turn out really bad.

[patsu]

http://kotaku.com/5654022/littlebigp...evel-move-demo

LittleBigPlanet 2 will have a multilevel PlayStation Move enabled demo, but full support won't be added until after the game arrives in January, Eurogamer reports.

James Spafford, the community manager for the game's studio, Media Molecule, said an extra game - "possibly on another disc, maybe on the same disc" - will be included with LB2, containing roughly 10 levels that will demonstrate the game's Move support.

"And shortly after release we'll do a full DLC pack that's purely Move, and we'll give away the free controls so people can make their own Move levels as well," Spafford told Eurogamer.

[Shifty Geezer]

Just thought I'd mention that the logic is proving more versatile than I thought at first thanks to quirks. I don't know if these quirks are by design or not, but still, they're there! Most importantly, what MM call the "direction combiner" is actually a positive/negative combiner, which solves the issue I had with not being able to decrement things. Signals generated from components like timer switches or the On/Off toggle are typically binary, either 1 for on or 0 for off. Some can be set to range from 0.0 to 1.0. But none allows a -1 output. Hence every signal into a counter, for example, increments it, or does nothing.

However, the magic of the Direction Combiner allows you to negate an input signal. Just run whatever input you want through the Direction Combiner's negative input, and the same value negated is passed out. This means I can take a 1 value from a switch, turn it into -1 and enter it into a Counter to decrement it! (woohoo) The fact you can run multiple inputs into the same component means you can have increment and decrement logic to adjust a counter. Examples of usefulness are ammo, decrementing as shot and recharging with a pickup; or an oscillating movement with two timers, one for positive, one for negative, each controlling the other's direction and their output contributing to positive and negative motion thanks to the Direction Combiner.

What this really means is, cool stuff can be more cool with less effort.

[messyman]

Just curious.
Will the game still support mouse and keyboard?
Does it have the functionality in the beta too?

[patsu]

Mouse and Keyboard support may not be available at launch:
http://forums.littlebigworkshop.com/...t/true#M153602

Heya - this feature won't be in the game at launch, we've pulled it back so we can make sure it works really well - we had it working, but it needed a lot of tweaking and testing, and because we have a lot of other stuff to do it's gone tothe bottom of the list - it will get some attention though some time...

all of our designers prefer using the dualshock, and there are lots of awesome enhancements to create mode that make it a lot easier and faster now

It sounds like a low priority item. We may not see it in Feb. May be together with the Move patch ?